Obama to seek congress approval

[Redfish]

Let's just cut through the all the bullshit and assume that it is already proven-as-fact that Bashar Assad and his regime in Syria used chemical weapons against the rebels and nearby civilians - against his own people.

Let's also cut through the bullshit in saying that precedent exists for the US to punish users of chemical weapons, as we saw served-up as the casus belli for attacking Iraq in 2003...

Let's say that is all true...

Such a state of affairs does not mean that we have to attack Syria now...

We can pick and choose our fights...

And we can pick and choose which ones to sit-out, as well...

The vast majority of Americans (according to the most recent polls found in the Washington Post, Drudge Report, and even our little polls here)...

The nation has been at war since 2001...

That is 12 years...

We just wrapped-up one war (Iraq) after 7 years or more in the field...

We're still engaged in another war (Afghanistan) after 12 years in the field...

We've cycled and recycled our Active-Duty and Reserve and Guard units again and again...

Our military is tired... still tough-as-nails but tired...

Our PEOPLE are tired of war... the nation is war-weary...

Our Treasury is empty after floating the cost of wars for a decade or more; we're broke, and robbing Peter to pay Paul, to float the cost of government, and to feed our poor...

There are other countries closer-by with healthy militaries that need some exercise...

Let the Europeans and the Turks and the Arab League handle this one, if they're so friggin' eager to hit Syria...

Let's sit this one out...

This is not about supporting Bush and not supporting Obama, or any related effect...

This is about the nation being fresh and pissed (after 9-11) and ready to get some Payback, in 2001, and even 2003, to kick some ass...

This is about the nation now being war-weary and broke and tired, and in-need of a season of rest and recuperation, and to let the national pocketbook cool-off for a while...

This is about us being ready-and-willing back then, and ready-and-UNwilling today...

Two different times, and two different energy levels, insofar as the National Will is concerned...

When your people are bone-tired, and there is no pressing survival-argument in favor of action, then, The People are entitled to a Season of Rest...

No disrespect or lack of support intended for Fearless Leader, but...

This is the wrong war, at the wrong time...

And the American People - those whom God or Fate has elevated you to lead - are tired, and don't want to play the game, this particular time around...

Let 'em rest... they've earned it...

Stand down...

Let's sit this one out...

good post, I would add:

there is no US national interest at risk because of Syria's civil war

there is no stated end game if we shoot missiles into Syria

we are not the world's morality police

Even the UN is opposed to this, unlike their support of the Iraq fiasco.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I still have seen no evidence Assad used chemical weapons. I have seen evidence the rebels have.

Exactly.

The so-called rebels are being supported by the CIA, The Mossad and Saudi Arabia.

Do not understand why folks are forgetting that simple fact.

.

The article I posted a link to addresses chemical weapons being provided to the Rebels by Saudi Arabia.

That is Post 708.

Here it is again:

"The U.S., Britain, and France as well as the Arab League have accused the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for carrying out the chemical weapons attack, which mainly targeted civilians. U.S. warships are stationed in the Mediterranean Sea to launch military strikes against Syria in punishment for carrying out a massive chemical weapons attack. The U.S. and others are not interested in examining any contrary evidence, with U.S Secretary of State John Kerry*saying*Monday that Assad’s guilt was “a judgment … already clear to the world.” However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack.“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta.Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels were killed inside of a tunnel used to store weapons provided by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, who was leading a fighting battalion. The father described the weapons as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” Syrians in Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack by Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh -- Antiwar.com"

Syrians in Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack by Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh -- Antiwar.com

And the UN has previously disclosed they were investigating prior incidents of the Rebels use of chemical weapons.

Why is the Rebel's use of chemical weapons being ignored?

Why is acceptable to the US for the Rebels, with associations with Al Qaeda and other extremist groups, to use chemical weapons in Syria?

Something else I want to share, I was listening to a woman from Syria very much concerned that if the US weakens Assads forces, the people would be left at the mercy of Al Qaeda and their chemical weapons and violence. There would be no one to protect the civilians in Syria from Al Qaeda. The US says no boots on the ground, who protects the civilians of Syria from Al Qaeda and other foreign extremist groups now in Syria?

 

[Katzndogz]

When Syria becomes a disaster obama will be blaming Kerry, Pelosi and other democrats. Democrats will blame republicans saying that republicans forced democrats to support a disastrous Syrian strike by opposing it themselves.

 

[Redfish]

When Syria becomes a disaster obama will be blaming Kerry, Pelosi and other democrats. Democrats will blame republicans saying that republicans forced democrats to support a disastrous Syrian strike by opposing it themselves.

exactly, this is all about saving the kenyan messiah from ever being responsible for anything. and our congress is so braindead that they are letting it happen.

 

[Contumacious]

The so-called rebels are being supported by the CIA, The Mossad and Saudi Arabia.

Do not understand why folks are forgetting that simple fact.

.

Because it's not a fact. It's just your unsupported opinion, conspiracy theory stuff.

OK You retarded Zionist son-of -a bitch , here are the facts for the umpteenth time:

CIA

Mossad

Saudi Arabia

.

 

[Kondor3]

When Syria becomes a disaster obama will be blaming Kerry, Pelosi and other democrats. Democrats will blame republicans saying that republicans forced democrats to support a disastrous Syrian strike by opposing it themselves.

exactly, this is all about saving the kenyan messiah from ever being responsible for anything. and our congress is so braindead that they are letting it happen.

If THAT happens, there will be BIPARTISAN support in Congress for impeachment, and the long national nightmare will be over...

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So much we just do not know about the story of chemical weapons, and who is providing them to Syrians, and who is using them in Syria.

All of that illustrates that a rush for a military strike on Syria is premature and unwise.

Look at this story, from the UK, they are reporting the UK providing chemical weapons to Syria.

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began
1 Sep 2013 07:21

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began - Daily Record

FURIOUS politicians have demanded Prime Minister David Cameron explain why chemical export licences were granted to firms last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, the Sunday Mail can reveal today.

Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began. The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago. President Bashar Assad’s forces have been blamed for the attack, leading to calls for an armed response from the West.

The chemical export licences were granted by Business Secretary Vince Cable’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. They were only revoked six months later, when the European Union imposed tough sanctions on Assad’s regime. Dunfermline and West Fife Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who sits on the House of Commons’ Committees on Arms Export Controls, plans to lodge Parliamentary questions tomorrow and write to Cable.

He said: “At best it has been negligent and at worst reckless to export material that could have been used to create chemical weapons. “MPs will be horrified and furious that the UK Government has been allowing the sale of these ingredients to Syria. “What the hell were they doing granting a licence in the first place? “I would like to know what investigations have been carried out to establish if any of this material exported to Syria was subsequently used in the attacks on its own people.”

 

[dilloduck]

The so-called rebels are being supported by the CIA, The Mossad and Saudi Arabia.

Do not understand why folks are forgetting that simple fact.

.

Because it's not a fact. It's just your unsupported opinion, conspiracy theory stuff.

OK You retarded Zionist son-of -a bitch , here are the facts for the umpteenth time:

CIA

Mossad

Saudi Arabia

.

You add Turkey and Qatar to that list.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Moveon.org is supposed to be a group supporting Obama, they helped get him elected. they held town hall meetings before his elections. But, I read in an email I just received moveon members have voted overwhelmingly to oppose US military strikes in Syria and they are calling for their members to contact Congress and oppose military strikes against Syria.

Is this for real?

I am just left speechless, I do not know what to think about this and what is going on here. 73 percent of moveon members, membership of 8 million, oppose military strikes. My email informs me who my Congressmen are, gives me their phone numbers, I just click and I can call them, gives me ideas of what to call and say to my Congressman, various scripts, and asks I let moveon.com have feedback after I make my calls. Seems like a real campaign being pursued by moveon.org to defeat this call for military strikes in Syria. It reminds me of campaigning for elections again. This was moveon.org a few years ago: " You can help*Obama*win the nomination by giving his*campaign*a contribution today.*." The love affair with Obama is over.

 

[Contumacious]

Because it's not a fact. It's just your unsupported opinion, conspiracy theory stuff.

OK You retarded Zionist son-of -a bitch , here are the facts for the umpteenth time:

CIA

Mossad

Saudi Arabia

.

You add Turkey and Qatar to that list.

Turks Grant Recognition to Coalition of Syrians

.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Whip Count: Tracking Congressional Support for War With Syria | Firedoglake This is how Congress is divided presently, the majority oppose military strikes in Syria.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So much we just do not know about the story of chemical weapons, and who is providing them to Syrians, and who is using them in Syria.

All of that illustrates that a rush for a military strike on Syria is premature and unwise.

Look at this story, from the UK, they are reporting the UK providing chemical weapons to Syria.

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began
1 Sep 2013 07:21

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began - Daily Record

FURIOUS politicians have demanded Prime Minister David Cameron explain why chemical export licences were granted to firms last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, the Sunday Mail can reveal today.

Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began. The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago. President Bashar Assad’s forces have been blamed for the attack, leading to calls for an armed response from the West.

The chemical export licences were granted by Business Secretary Vince Cable’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. They were only revoked six months later, when the European Union imposed tough sanctions on Assad’s regime. Dunfermline and West Fife Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who sits on the House of Commons’ Committees on Arms Export Controls, plans to lodge Parliamentary questions tomorrow and write to Cable.

He said: “At best it has been negligent and at worst reckless to export material that could have been used to create chemical weapons. “MPs will be horrified and furious that the UK Government has been allowing the sale of these ingredients to Syria. “What the hell were they doing granting a licence in the first place? “I would like to know what investigations have been carried out to establish if any of this material exported to Syria was subsequently used in the attacks on its own people.”

There are I am reading many sources in the UK now writing about this story.

What I just read is a claim that what is for sure is that the Shipments that were going from Brittan were not for the "Regime" Assad or the Syrian Military!

So, who does that leave?

Leaving the only people presently on the ground interested in such things ,Rebels/Al-Qaeda and other allies of the Opposition.

What a plan, nations ship chemical weapons to the rebels and they carry out a chemical weapons attack, and the nations who shipped the weapons to the rebels blame Assad, using that as a subterfuge to launch an attack against Assad.

This actually reminds me of what Robert Fisk wrote about in the Iran/Iraq War. The US gave Saddam chemical weapons, when the world starts accusing Iraq of using chemical weapons for a long time the US kept denying it and ignoring it and trying to protect Iraq, then they tried to accuse Iran of using chemical weapons. All of that is written about in The Great War For Civilisation.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Revealed: UK Government let British company export nerve gas chemicals to Syria

The Government was accused of “breathtaking laxity” in its arms controls last night after it emerged that officials authorised the export to Syria of two chemicals capable of being used to make a nerve agent such as sarin a year ago.

The Business Secretary, Vince Cable, will today be asked by MPs to explain why a British company was granted export licences for the dual-use substances for six months in 2012 while Syria’s civil war was raging and concern was rife that the regime could use chemical weapons on its own people. The disclosure of the licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride, which can both be used as precursor chemicals in the manufacture of nerve gas, came as the US Secretary of State John Kerry said the United States had evidence that sarin* gas was used in last month’s atrocity in Damascus. Revealed: UK Government let British company export nerve gas chemicals to Syria - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Tuesday 3 September 2013 09.47 EDT

"Did Syrian rebels have sarin gas? Your questions on the crisis answered"

"Our Middle East editor answers readers' questions on Russia, Syrian opposition groups, al-Qaida and moreEbbTide64: Why is the media assuming that it was Assad who was responsible, when there are reports (here,*here*&here) of the rebels being caught with sarin?

It is not the media that is assuming that Assad is responsible. The Guardian and other media have reported claims and assessments by the US, UK, France and the Syrian rebels, and of course official Syrian denials. Only western governments have provided any evidence at all, however adequate or convincing it is judged. All three governments also state categorically that the rebels did not have the capacity to mount a CW attack on the scale of what occurred on 21 August. All have stated they are relying on classified sources as well as the precedent of earlier, smaller attacks. More detail is clearly needed to convince sceptics, given the experience of the Iraq WMD dossier.It has previously been reported that members of the al-Nusra front were caught with sarin nerve gas in Turkey – and this has been echoed by Syrian state media. Dale Gavlak, an independent journalist, has reported a belief that nerve agents used in Ghouta were supplied by Saudi Arabia.So far, however, neither the Syrian government nor Russia have publicly provided any evidence that the rebels were responsible for the incident. Delay in allowing the UN inspectors access to the scene of the attacks, and heavy shelling before they were able to get there, appeared designed to destroy evidence."

Did Syrian rebels have sarin gas? Your questions on the crisis answered | World news | theguardian.com

 

[rhodescholar]

"Did Syrian rebels have sarin gas? Your questions on the crisis answered"

Posted by the mentally ill trash poster here in USMB.

Why don't you tell us how much you hate jews and the West, and support hamas and hezbollah?

Also share for us your support for iran and russia and all of the other anti-american countries, you worthless fucking trash?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"Did Syrian rebels have sarin gas? Your questions on the crisis answered"

Posted by the mentally ill trash poster here in USMB.

Why don't you tell us how much you hate jews and the West, and support hamas and hezbollah?

Also share for us your support for iran and russia and all of the other anti-american countries, you worthless fucking trash?

When a poster cannot refute facts, the rebels have already been caught with sarin, confirmed in UK article, all they are left with is personal insults. And that tells all of us everything we need to know about that poster. Thanks for exposing yourself.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So much we just do not know about the story of chemical weapons, and who is providing them to Syrians, and who is using them in Syria.

All of that illustrates that a rush for a military strike on Syria is premature and unwise.

Look at this story, from the UK, they are reporting the UK providing chemical weapons to Syria.

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began
1 Sep 2013 07:21

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest' began - Daily Record

FURIOUS politicians have demanded Prime Minister David Cameron explain why chemical export licences were granted to firms last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, the Sunday Mail can reveal today.

Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began. The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago. President Bashar Assad’s forces have been blamed for the attack, leading to calls for an armed response from the West.

The chemical export licences were granted by Business Secretary Vince Cable’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began. They were only revoked six months later, when the European Union imposed tough sanctions on Assad’s regime. Dunfermline and West Fife Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who sits on the House of Commons’ Committees on Arms Export Controls, plans to lodge Parliamentary questions tomorrow and write to Cable.

He said: “At best it has been negligent and at worst reckless to export material that could have been used to create chemical weapons. “MPs will be horrified and furious that the UK Government has been allowing the sale of these ingredients to Syria. “What the hell were they doing granting a licence in the first place? “I would like to know what investigations have been carried out to establish if any of this material exported to Syria was subsequently used in the attacks on its own people.”

How do we know the use of CW in Syria is not an anomaly? Trying to control chemicals that are everywhere is a losing battle and is just as likely to force their use than deter them. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Beachboy]

I got rep from four people for this post. That is a record for me. Thanks to USMB members.

Just for the record, this Hoffstra provided four links to sell pure propaganda stating that the idea of a strong relationship between Israel and the United States was untrue. I debunked all four of his links as propaganda, and provided a history of Israeli/U. S. relations back to the 1960s. Watch out for Hoffstra and his 'world of manufactured reality.' All I can do is put Hoffstra on 'ignore.' Posting against him is a waste time. Speaking as a WASP, Hoffstra looks like and anti-Semite* to me. Since this is the internet, I unable to handle this as I might in real life.

​

*Antisemitism is prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". It is considered by most scholars to be a form of racism.

Remember how Muslims say "Thank you?"

I remember how Israelis say "thank you".

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lawrence Franklin espionage scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israeli ?art student? mystery - Salon.com

This is an old ploy that does not work. "Bury the facts with multiple links." I might suggest you actually read your own links. The U.S.S. Liberty was attacked by Israel in error, and they apologized. Twisting the facts does not work in this forum, not any more. 9/11 like the Boston Marathon bombings were intentional acts of terrorism by Muslims. PERIOD!

In your second link you mention Jonathan Pollard who was a spy, and did pass materials to Israel. I suppose you would not believe that British intelligent receives information about America too? You are either naive or you did not read your own link.

Direct quote from your third link. "The Lawrence Franklin espionage scandal (also known as the AIPAC espionage scandal) refers to Lawrence Franklin's scandal of passing classified documents regarding United States policy towards Iran to Israel through American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Franklin, a former United States Department of Defense employee, pled guilty to several espionage-related charges and was sentenced in January 2006 to nearly 13 years of prison which was later reduced to ten months house arrest. Franklin passed information to AIPAC policy director Steven Rosen and AIPAC senior Iran analyst Keith Weissman who later were fired by AIPAC. They were later indicted for illegally conspiring to gather and disclose classified national security information to Israel.[1] The case against them eventually was dismissed."

Your fourth link admits the accusations were never proven.

The relationship between the United States and Israel is strong and time tested.

Don't twist the facts. Very shabby misrepresentation.

 

[EriktheRed]

I'll give him credit where it's due, regardless of the reason, going to Congress is the right thing.

But what a distraction he's got going just when the noose was tightening on so many other fronts.

Really? What nooses are those?

 

[EriktheRed]

Btw, will the government shutdown/default still be on for the Teabaggers in Congress if the Prez gets the vote?