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O'Reilly has been touting a "consumption tax" for a few weeks now, even though most of his guests disapprove. But he claims that there is a "trillion" in untaxed income in the black market that at least could be taxed on the back end. I'm not sure about his figures, but I understand what he's getting at. Drug dealers and people who run cash businesses )illegally) in the red are not paying their "fair share". I believe he's suggested 2 percent.
Paul Ryan has responded to the proposal (Ryan: Obama's 'Buffett Rule' is class warfare), using arguments predictable enough that many in this thread have anticipated them. He calls it "class warfare" and "bad economics", and says that it will lead to more uncertainty and fewer jobs.
Obama's proposal is clearly good politics. By asking only that millionaires pay at least the same percentage of their income as less wealthy Americans, he places the "fairness" argument firmly on his side. As we saw during the debates over extending the Bush tax cuts, the American people firmly support new taxes on the wealthy. Given the new emphasis on deficit reduction, that support has probably gone up (although perhaps not). As an added bonus, Republican candidates for President will probably have to take some sort of position now, which they largely avoided during the debt ceiling debates.
Economically, the plan also makes perfect sense (except in that it doesn't go far enough):
-- Raising taxes on the wealthy relative to the nonwealthy shifts consumption towards necessities and away from luxuries
-- Taxing investment income as normal income removes the distortionary effect which favors the financial sector. I think we recall the consequences of a too-large financial sector.
-- Demonstrating a willingness to use new revenues to pay for current debts will send a signal that the US is (more) serious about deficit reduction.
The one downside of course is that Ryan is quite right that higher taxes do reduce overall economic activity. Given the weak economy, this may not be the time to raise taxes. However, there is no harm in agreeing now to raise taxes in the future, which seems to be what Obama is trying to do anyway.
Most people in the world would love to live in our definition of poverty.The poor get poorer.
Actually the poor have gotten richer. Just not as fast as the rich.
Prove it.
Bullshit, Just because their house if worth 500k their a millionaire? The Vast majority do not actually own the home yet. They owe Hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, and pay a mortgage.
I didn't read this thread, so I'll just give my initial impressions divorced from this discussion.
When I first saw this, I thought it was a bad idea because I oppose tax increases when the economy is depressed. When I found out that this tax will replace the alternative minimum tax, I felt a little better.
Still, the best way to fix the deficit is by raising revenues and the best way to do that is not with taxes, but with economic growth.
I think what editec is saying is that in areas where real estate prices are high, it is not unusual for someone making $200K to own a $500K house; a $100K boat or expensive cars; and have pension money and other investments put away. Esp. here in NJ.
A "millionaire" and someone MAKING a million dollars a YEAR, are quite different. I wouldn't be surprised if the income redistributors start to go after wealth and assets soon. The $200K guy who has invested wisely, might end up worse off than the $500K guy who spends every friggin dime. And of course neither of those guys have the same accountants and lawyers as the Buffetts and Hollywood celebutards.
Bullshit, Just because their house if worth 500k their a millionaire? The Vast majority do not actually own the home yet. They owe Hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, and pay a mortgage.
I just saw Bill Clinton on TV and he said three things:
1. economic growth
2. decreased spending
3. increased revenue (taxes?)
He is right. Unfortunately, there are too many differing opinions on how to achieve #1. And 2. And 3.
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers.
A White House official said the proposal would be included in the president's proposal for long term deficit reduction that he will announce Monday. The official spoke anonymously because the plan has not been officially announced.
Obama is going to call it the "Buffett Rule" for Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained that rich people like him pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers.
Buffett wrote in a New York Times op-ed piece last month that he and his rich friends "have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress."
The measure would be in addition to $447 billion in new tax revenue that Obama is seeking to pay for his short-term spending and tax cutting plan to jump start the economy.
House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he would oppose tax increases to reduce the deficit. Boehner has urged Congress' deficit "supercommittee" to lay the groundwork for a broad overhaul of the U.S. tax code.
The panel has almost unlimited authority to recommend changes in federal spending and taxes and is working against a deadline of Nov. 23.
Obama Millionaire's Tax: President To Seek New Tax Rate For Wealthy
brick wall,,, meeet head.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers.
A White House official said the proposal would be included in the president's proposal for long term deficit reduction that he will announce Monday. The official spoke anonymously because the plan has not been officially announced.
Obama is going to call it the "Buffett Rule" for Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained that rich people like him pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers.
Buffett wrote in a New York Times op-ed piece last month that he and his rich friends "have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress."
The measure would be in addition to $447 billion in new tax revenue that Obama is seeking to pay for his short-term spending and tax cutting plan to jump start the economy.
House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he would oppose tax increases to reduce the deficit. Boehner has urged Congress' deficit "supercommittee" to lay the groundwork for a broad overhaul of the U.S. tax code.
The panel has almost unlimited authority to recommend changes in federal spending and taxes and is working against a deadline of Nov. 23.
Obama Millionaire's Tax: President To Seek New Tax Rate For Wealthy
brick wall,,, meeet head.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers.
A White House official said the proposal would be included in the president's proposal for long term deficit reduction that he will announce Monday. The official spoke anonymously because the plan has not been officially announced.
Obama is going to call it the "Buffett Rule" for Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained that rich people like him pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers.
Buffett wrote in a New York Times op-ed piece last month that he and his rich friends "have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress."
The measure would be in addition to $447 billion in new tax revenue that Obama is seeking to pay for his short-term spending and tax cutting plan to jump start the economy.
House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he would oppose tax increases to reduce the deficit. Boehner has urged Congress' deficit "supercommittee" to lay the groundwork for a broad overhaul of the U.S. tax code.
The panel has almost unlimited authority to recommend changes in federal spending and taxes and is working against a deadline of Nov. 23.
Obama Millionaire's Tax: President To Seek New Tax Rate For Wealthy
brick wall,,, meeet head.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
You know why they aren't taxed federally? Because it would take consumers out of the economy. They would only save save save for end of the year taxes and everything would go purely into taxes.
That isn't an option.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
You know why they aren't taxed federally? Because it would take consumers out of the economy. They would only save save save for end of the year taxes and everything would go purely into taxes.
That isn't an option.
It absolutely should be, why is it fair that I pay more taxes on my income than someone else does on theirs. I work just as hard, maybe harder, more hours, yet I am penalized for my hard work and someone else is rewarded for not working as hard. What's fair about that? They take money from me, am I not a consumer too? because I am. I would consume more if the government quit taking so much of my money. What makes them different from me?? We both are consumers.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
This is a constant theme from the Democrats, it is always tax the wealthy and it will fix all of our problems. It doesn't, this will create an increase in unemployment, not a decrease.
" When Democrats start talking about taxing the wealthy, the middle class needs to run for cover." Fred Thompson
O'Reilly has been touting a "consumption tax" for a few weeks now, even though most of his guests disapprove. But he claims that there is a "trillion" in untaxed income in the black market that at least could be taxed on the back end. I'm not sure about his figures, but I understand what he's getting at. Drug dealers and people who run cash businesses )illegally) in the red are not paying their "fair share". I believe he's suggested 2 percent.
Consumption tax is like a value added tax (VAT)...The problem in other countries with this kind of tax is that it always starts out low and attractive, then the greedy politicians just keep raising it a little at a time. Many of the countries where this was implemented started out at 2-3%, and now are up to 15-18% or more.
O'Reilly has been touting a "consumption tax" for a few weeks now, even though most of his guests disapprove. But he claims that there is a "trillion" in untaxed income in the black market that at least could be taxed on the back end. I'm not sure about his figures, but I understand what he's getting at. Drug dealers and people who run cash businesses )illegally) in the red are not paying their "fair share". I believe he's suggested 2 percent.
Consumption tax is like a value added tax (VAT)...The problem in other countries with this kind of tax is that it always starts out low and attractive, then the greedy politicians just keep raising it a little at a time. Many of the countries where this was implemented started out at 2-3%, and now are up to 15-18% or more.
Another issue is that some things are taxed as consumer goods and others are considered intermediate. So in England, dog food for a house pet is taxed but dog food for a racing grayhound is not. So companies spend a lot of energy trying to figure out ways around the system, which is administered by faceless unaccountable bureaucrats.
It absolutely should be, why is it fair that I pay more taxes on my income than someone else does on theirs.
EVerybody demands a "simple" tax code but I think that it isn't really possible.
Taxation is complex because the various businesses in society make it necessarily complex.
Deciding, for example, what a reasonable expense really is can't be done across all different kinds of businesses.
As to " simplifying " the tax codes as in having a FLAT RATE on all income levels?
Well, that's just a ridiculous idea in a society where the range of incomes is so vast.
Here you go - 9% sales tax on all goods and resources purchased by the end user, 9% income tax on all personal income and 9% income tax on all business income with payroll as the only deduction.
Simple. Fair. Predictable.
That wouldn't reduce the tax code very much. All that might do is make our individual tax filings easier,
Most of the enormous tax code is industry specific because it needs to be industry specific.
It ain't rocket science, y'all.
You give the Federal Government more money--they just spend that and waste more. As far as Warren Buffet--I don't know why he just doesn't start making out a pay-check to himself so he will get hammered like the rest of us?
Indeed the tax code needs to be changed to where it is fair--and along with raising taxes aka capital gains on people who make over 1 million dollars a year (in capital gains)---then lets start looking also at the 47% of working Americans who pay no federal income tax what-so-ever. Many of which are in the 60 to 70K income levels--but because they have a couple of kids and a mortgage get out of paying federal income tax.
Boehner's right--THE TAX CODE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
I am for taxing those 47% that pay no federal income tax yet enjoy the benefits that the rest of us get to pay for. I am for a flat tax, you make a dollar, you pay .10 you make 100 you pay $10, that's the only way it is fair. Buffet is 88 years old, most likely not too together anymore has other people with a brain still left managing his assets and he has Obama presurring him to say stupid stuff, just like the pressure for Solyndra and Lightguard, he gets his minions in there to arm bend. Taxing the wealthy will do nothing to help create jobs, because the government just took money away from the very people they expect to spend the money to create more jobs.
This is a constant theme from the Democrats, it is always tax the wealthy and it will fix all of our problems. It doesn't, this will create an increase in unemployment, not a decrease.
" When Democrats start talking about taxing the wealthy, the middle class needs to run for cover." Fred Thompson
