Obama has a big problem

[CharlestonChad]

This should explain his mother.
Descended from a white American mother and black Kenyan father, the Illinois Democrat once wrote: “He was black as pitch, my mother white as milk.”

In his first memoir, “Dreams from My Father,” Obama observed that when people discover his mixed-race heritage, they make assumptions about “the mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds.”

Indeed, Obama acknowledges feeling tormented for much of his life by “the constant, crippling fear that I didn't belong somehow, that unless I dodged and hid and pretended to be something I wasn't, I would forever remain an outsider, with the rest of the world, black and white, always standing in judgment.”

Although Obama was raised by his mother, he identified more closely with the race of his father, who left the family when Obama was 2.

“I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites,” he wrote.

http://www.examiner.com/a-536474~_Trapped_between_two_worlds_.html

Good, so we've established that he hates his mother. Now I guess we can rightfully dismiss any notion that he's a socialist because his mother hung out with socialists when she was a young woman.

 

[jreeves]

Good, so we've established that he hates his mother. Now I guess we can rightfully dismiss any notion that he's a socialist because his mother hung out with socialists when she was a young woman.

I never stated he hated his mother, only how he justified his dislike of whites.

 

[CharlestonChad]

I never stated he hated his mother, only how he justified his dislike of whites.

I was being sarcastic. No where in your post did it mention his dislike of whites.

 

[jreeves]

I was being sarcastic. No where in your post did it mention his dislike of whites.

I've posted it a few times on different threads already but here you go.


Sen. Barack Obama, the only major black candidate in the 2008 presidential race, has spent much of his life anguishing over his mixed-race heritage and self-described “racial obsessions.”

Descended from a white American mother and black Kenyan father, the Illinois Democrat once wrote: “He was black as pitch, my mother white as milk.”

In his first memoir, “Dreams from My Father,” Obama observed that when people discover his mixed-race heritage, they make assumptions about “the mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds.”

Indeed, Obama acknowledges feeling tormented for much of his life by “the constant, crippling fear that I didn't belong somehow, that unless I dodged and hid and pretended to be something I wasn't, I would forever remain an outsider, with the rest of the world, black and white, always standing in judgment.”

Obama's views on race are certain to be an issue in the upcoming presidential campaign, according to Princeton University professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell, who specializes in African-American politics.

“There’s no question that race and all the permutations that it’s going to take for Obama are going to be central issues,” she predicted.

Although Obama was raised by his mother, he identified more closely with the race of his father, who left the family when Obama was 2.

“I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites,” he wrote.

Yet, even through high school, he continued to vacillate between the twin strands of his racial identity.

“I learned to slip back and forth between my black and white worlds,” he wrote in “Dreams.” “One of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved — such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn't seem angry all the time.”

Although Obama spent various portions of his youth living with his white maternal grandfather and Indonesian stepfather, he vowed that he would “never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.”

Obama wrote that in high school, he and a black friend would sometimes speak disparagingly “about white folks this or white folks that, and I would suddenly remember my mother's smile, and the words that I spoke would seem awkward and false.”

As a result, he concluded that “certain whites could be excluded from the general category of our distrust.”

Donna Brazile, who managed former Vice President Al Gore’s presidential campaign in 2000, said Obama's feelings of distrust toward most whites and doubts about himself are fairly typical for black Americans.

“He was a young man trying to discover, trying to accept, trying to come to grips with his background,” she explained. “In the process, he had to really make some statements that are hurtful, maybe. But I think they're more insightful than anything.”

During college, Obama disapproved of what he called other “half-breeds” who gravitated toward whites instead of blacks. And yet after college, he once fell in love with a white woman, only to push her away when he concluded he would have to assimilate into her world, not the other way around. He later married a black woman.

Such candid racial revelations abound in “Dreams,” which was first published in 1995, when Obama was 34 and not yet in politics. By the time he ran for his Senate seat in 2004, he observed of that first memoir: “Certain passages have proven to be inconvenient politically.”

Thus, in his second memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” which was published last year, Obama adopted a more conciliatory, even upbeat tone when discussing race. Noting his multiracial family, he wrote in the new book: “I’ve never had the option of restricting my loyalties on the basis of race, or measuring my worth on the basis of tribe.”

This appears to contradict certain passages in his first memoir, including a description of black student life at Occidental College in Los Angeles.

“There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs,” he wrote. “It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.”

He added: “To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists.”

Obama said he and other blacks were careful not to second-guess their own racial identity in front of whites.

“To admit our doubt and confusion to whites, to open up our psyches to general examination by those who had caused so much of the damage in the first place, seemed ludicrous, itself an expression of self-hatred,” he wrote.

After his sophomore year, Obama transferred to Columbia University. Later, looking back on his years in New York City, he recalled: “I had grown accustomed, everywhere, to suspicions between the races.”

His pessimism about race relations seemed to pervade his worldview.

“The emotion between the races could never be pure,” he laments in “Dreams.” “Even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves. Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart.”

After graduating from college, Obama eventually went to Chicago to interview for a job as a community organizer. His racial attitudes came into play as he sized up the man who would become his boss.

“There was something about him that made me wary,” Obama wrote. “A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.”

Harris-Lacewell said such expressions of distrust toward whites will not hurt Obama in the Democratic presidential primaries, which are dominated by liberal voters.

“To win the Democratic nomination, he's got to get a part of the progressive, anti-war, white folks,” she said. “And those white folks tend to be suspicious of any black person who wouldn’t be suspicious of white people.”

Such liberals would have little basis for suspicion after reading some of Obama’s conclusions about the white race, which he once described as “that ghostly figure that haunted black dreams.”

“That hate hadn't gone away,” he wrote, blaming “white people — some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives.”

Obama’s racial suspicions were not always limited to whites. For example, after making his first visit to Kenya, he wrote of being disappointed to learn that his paternal grandfather had been a servant to rich whites.

He wrote in “Dreams” that the revelation caused “ugly words to flash across my mind. Uncle Tom. Collaborator. House ******.”

Such blunt and provocative observations about race are largely absent from Obama’s second memoir.

“I have witnessed a profound shift in race relations in my lifetime,” he wrote in “Audacity.” “I insist that things have gotten better.”

http://www.examiner.com/a-536474~_Trapped_between_two_worlds_.html

 

[CharlestonChad]

Did you miss the last line?

When someone grows up with a black father and white mother, yet they are considered black by society because they are not pure white, then I'd imagine they would have some distrust of the people that categorize them in with they race that they consider lesser.

Obama even stated that he's matured, and his feelings have changed.

Nice try though, Obamaphobe.

 

[jreeves]

Did you miss the last line?

When someone grows up with a black father and white mother, yet they are considered black by society because they are not pure white, then I'd imagine they would have some distrust of the people that categorize them in with they race that they consider lesser.

Obama even stated that he's matured, and his feelings have changed.

Nice try though, Obamaphobe.

Yeah sure, white people became one face bullshit, alienating, menacing...."God Damn America"....

 

[CharlestonChad]

Yeah sure, white people became one face bullshit, alienating, menacing...."God Damn America"....

Come on, at least put up a fight. I wouldn't have even posted if I knew you'd throw up the white flag so early.

 

[jreeves]

Come on, at least put up a fight. I wouldn't have even posted if I knew you'd throw up the white flag so early.

Evidently you can't read...

 

[CharlestonChad]

Evidently you can't read...

You copy-pasted an article. I read it and stated why your conclusion is incorrect. Then you deflected and still have not responded to what I said.

I guess being an Obamaphobe is more about reaction and less about substance.

 

[jreeves]

You copy-pasted an article. I read it and stated why your conclusion is incorrect. Then you deflected and still have not responded to what I said.

I guess being an Obamaphobe is more about reaction and less about substance.

Ok, then ask me a question about Dr. Racist Wright or Obama who have started a new campaign song of 'God Damn America' and I will answer it.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Ok, then ask me a question about Dr. Racist Wright or Obama who have started a new campaign song of 'God Damn America' and I will answer it.

Where can I find evidence of Obama starting a campaing song of "God Damn America"?

or I could ask you


Why is a bigot associated with Obama relevant, while McCain attends a bigot church and it's fine?

 

[jreeves]

Where can I find evidence of Obama starting a campaing song of "God Damn America"?

or I could ask you


Why is a bigot associated with Obama relevant, while McCain attends a bigot church and it's fine?

Sorry the campaign song was just a dig at the absurdity of your arguement.

As far as your 2nd question, let's see the bigot associated with Obama, is one in which was his pastor of over 20 years. Dr. Racist Wright performed his marriage ceremony, baptized his childern, was going to speak at his presidential candiacy announcement but Obama told him sometimes his sermons were a little rough...should I go on with the connections or do you get the point.
As far as some supporters of MCcain making ignorant comments, not as relevant as they weren't his pastors.

 

[Annie]

Where can I find evidence of Obama starting a campaing song of "God Damn America"?

or I could ask you


Why is a bigot associated with Obama relevant, while McCain attends a bigot church and it's fine?

McCain was endorsed by a bigot, whose ideas he more than distanced himself from quickly, not 2 years later. Obama chose his church and mentor 20 years ago, according to himself, 'he only found out about the questionable sermons' through the newspaper and denounced those while on the campaign trail, when questioned. Problem was then, he was responding to the Rolling Stone article, which was using information previously published by the Chicago Tribune. So Obama managed not to know of his mentor's beliefs regarding whites and America, though attending that church over 15 years and missed the Chicago Tribune article about him? Seems more than weird.

BTW, it wasn't a 'few' times that Reverend Wright went off like that, there were over 30 sermons along the same lines, for sale on DVD from the Church.

 

[CharlestonChad]

As far as your 2nd question, let's see the bigot associated with Obama, is one in which was his pastor of over 20 years. Dr. Racist Wright performed his marriage ceremony, baptized his childern, was going to speak at his presidential candiacy announcement but Obama told him sometimes his sermons were a little rough...should I go on with the connections or do you get the point.
As far as some supporters of MCcain making ignorant comments, not as relevant as they weren't his pastors.

Oh really....


Rev. Hagee ( pastor of McCain)

Hurricane Katrina
At the end of the interview, Gross asked Hagee about a sermon in which he'd said Hurricane Katrina was a punishment from God. He explained:

I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are--were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade on the Monday that the Katrina came, and the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing.

Mr. Hagee also upset black leaders. To help students seeking odd jobs, his church newsletter, The Cluster, advertised a "slave" sale. "Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone," it said. "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." Mr. Hagee apologized but, in a radio interview, protested about pressure to be "politically correct" and joked that perhaps his pet dog should be called a "canine American."

Hagee on Women
"Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]

Hagee on Iran
"The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation,8/8/2006,

McCain Defends Hagee: ‘He Said That His Words Were Taken Out Of Context’


I will say that he said that his words were taken out of context, he defends his position. I hope that maybe you’d give him a chance to respond. He says he has never been anti-Catholic, but I repudiate the words that create that impression.

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: There's been a lot of chatter over the last few days about John McCain's embrace of Pastor John Hagee, who's well-known for a history of anti-Catholicism and claims that God will send terrorists to create a "bloodbath" in America for its support of a two state solution in Israel/Palestine. So what is it exactly that Hagee's said and just how much has McCain cozied up to him? We thought we'd put all the choicest moments into one quick video so you could take a look and make up your own mind.


Hagee has already come under fire for his anti-Catholic remarks. Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said McCain should "retract his embrace of Hagee," and said Hagee "has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church." Chris Korzen, Executive Director of Catholics United, said "We hope Senator McCain will take the principled position of publicly and unequivocally distancing himself from Pastor Hagee's anti-Catholic comments. Intolerance and bigotry do not belong in American politics."

"As a Catholic, I am personally offended by John McCain's embrace of such a divisive figure. I join many others in the Catholic community
calling on Sen. McCain to immediately distance himself from Hagee and denounce his remarks," said DNC Executive Director Tom McMahon. "As an
American, I'm also offended by Hagee's denigration of African Americans, Muslims, women, and LGBT Americans. Hagee's hate speech has no place in public discourse and McCain's embrace of this figure raises serious questions about John McCain's character and his willingness to do anything to win."

Hagee on Islamic Beliefs

Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims
have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well,
the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air,
9/18/06]









Like I said, I was hoping you would put up a fight, but apparently you are too ignorant of even your own party that you cannot have a reasonable debate. It's actually sad that you even try to smear Obama, because you don't seem to care about getting the best person in office. McCain gets no scrutiny from you, yet I'm pretty sure he had your vote a long time ago.

 

[CharlestonChad]

McCain was endorsed by a bigot, whose ideas he more than distanced himself from quickly, not 2 years later. Obama chose his church and mentor 20 years ago, according to himself, 'he only found out about the questionable sermons' through the newspaper and denounced those while on the campaign trail, when questioned. Problem was then, he was responding to the Rolling Stone article, which was using information previously published by the Chicago Tribune. So Obama managed not to know of his mentor's beliefs regarding whites and America, though attending that church over 15 years and missed the Chicago Tribune article about him? Seems more than weird.

BTW, it wasn't a 'few' times that Reverend Wright went off like that, there were over 30 sermons along the same lines, for sale on DVD from the Church.

I'm not here to say what Wright says is ok. McCain has a racist bigot reverend, and I won't hold it against McCain, just like I won't hold it against Obama. People are free to have their own thoughts. Just because a pastor says something, it does not mean a person hearing it has to agree.

 

[jreeves]

Oh really....


Rev. Hagee ( pastor of McCain)

Hurricane Katrina
At the end of the interview, Gross asked Hagee about a sermon in which he'd said Hurricane Katrina was a punishment from God. He explained:

I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are--were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade on the Monday that the Katrina came, and the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing.

Mr. Hagee also upset black leaders. To help students seeking odd jobs, his church newsletter, The Cluster, advertised a "slave" sale. "Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone," it said. "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." Mr. Hagee apologized but, in a radio interview, protested about pressure to be "politically correct" and joked that perhaps his pet dog should be called a "canine American."

Hagee on Women
"Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]

Hagee on Iran
"The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation,8/8/2006,

McCain Defends Hagee: ‘He Said That His Words Were Taken Out Of Context’


I will say that he said that his words were taken out of context, he defends his position. I hope that maybe you’d give him a chance to respond. He says he has never been anti-Catholic, but I repudiate the words that create that impression.

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: There's been a lot of chatter over the last few days about John McCain's embrace of Pastor John Hagee, who's well-known for a history of anti-Catholicism and claims that God will send terrorists to create a "bloodbath" in America for its support of a two state solution in Israel/Palestine. So what is it exactly that Hagee's said and just how much has McCain cozied up to him? We thought we'd put all the choicest moments into one quick video so you could take a look and make up your own mind.


Hagee has already come under fire for his anti-Catholic remarks. Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said McCain should "retract his embrace of Hagee," and said Hagee "has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church." Chris Korzen, Executive Director of Catholics United, said "We hope Senator McCain will take the principled position of publicly and unequivocally distancing himself from Pastor Hagee's anti-Catholic comments. Intolerance and bigotry do not belong in American politics."

"As a Catholic, I am personally offended by John McCain's embrace of such a divisive figure. I join many others in the Catholic community
calling on Sen. McCain to immediately distance himself from Hagee and denounce his remarks," said DNC Executive Director Tom McMahon. "As an
American, I'm also offended by Hagee's denigration of African Americans, Muslims, women, and LGBT Americans. Hagee's hate speech has no place in public discourse and McCain's embrace of this figure raises serious questions about John McCain's character and his willingness to do anything to win."

Hagee on Islamic Beliefs

Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims
have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well,
the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air,
9/18/06]









Like I said, I was hoping you would put up a fight, but apparently you are too ignorant of even your own party that you cannot have a reasonable debate. It's actually sad that you even try to smear Obama, because you don't seem to care about getting the best person in office. McCain gets no scrutiny from you, yet I'm pretty sure he had your vote a long time ago.

Yep, when it comes down to refuting the truth you turn to lies. Hagee isn't MCcains pastor....

But in a Republican primary where the religious conservative vote is up for grabs, the fact that McCain attends North Phoenix Baptist Church – a large evangelical church that is part of the conservative Southern Baptist Convention – made the papers last month.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1018/p01s06-uspo.html?page=3

 

[Annie]

I'm not here to say what Wright says is ok. McCain has a racist bigot reverend, and I won't hold it against McCain, just like I won't hold it against Obama. People are free to have their own thoughts. Just because a pastor says something, it does not mean a person hearing it has to agree.

As I said, the moral equivilency doesn't hold here. I agree with you that people are certainly entitled to their own thoughts, we also have the right to use our own thoughts regarding presidential candidates through their actions.

For the record, I felt the same with Ron Paul, while initially attracted because of some of his stands. But upon checking a bit, came across at the time those newsletters which disappeared. Luckily enough had saved some parts of them. If it were 'just some of his supporters' being racists and bigots, well candidates do attract 'all kinds.' The newsletters however, nearly 20 years worth, with Ron Paul making lots of extra income off of them, just didn't make sense that he 'didn't know what kind of slime' was in them.

After 20+ years of Obama's knowledge of Wright, personally and in congregation, just doesn't sit right that he was so clueless:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us...in&oref=slogin

...Followers were also drawn simply by Mr. Wright’s appeal. Trinity has 8,500 members today, making it the largest American congregation in the United Church of Christ, a mostly white denomination known for the independence of its congregations and its willingness to experiment with traditional Protestant theology.

Mr. Wright preached black liberation theology, which interprets the Bible as the story of the struggles of black people, who by virtue of their oppression are better able to understand Scripture than those who have suffered less. That message can sound different to white audiences, said Dwight Hopkins, a professor at University of Chicago Divinity School and a Trinity member. “Some white people hear it as racism in reverse,” Dr. Hopkins said, while blacks hear, “Yes, we are somebody, we’re also made in God’s image.”...



...

racist? No. Racial, yes.

and he had tapes further back than joining the church, sort of a problem:

...[Trinity United Church of Christ] also helped give him spiritual bona fides and a new assurance. Services at Trinity were a weekly master class in how to move an audience. When Mr. Obama arrived at Harvard Law School later that year, where he fortified himself with recordings of Mr. Wright’s sermons, he was delivering stirring speeches as a student leader in the classic oratorical style of the black church...

 

[jreeves]

Yep, when it comes down to refuting the truth you turn to lies. Hagee isn't MCcains pastor....

But in a Republican primary where the religious conservative vote is up for grabs, the fact that McCain attends North Phoenix Baptist Church – a large evangelical church that is part of the conservative Southern Baptist Convention – made the papers last month.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1018/p01s06-uspo.html?page=3

http://www.npbc.org/index.php?_cmd=info&link=2&sublink=2

Here's the site link for his church. Nothing on the site about the great whore or any other nonsense. Nothing about being proud of their native land, nothing on there about being unashamedly white, nothing on there about using a white value system......get the point.

 

[jillian]

http://www.npbc.org/index.php?_cmd=info&link=2&sublink=2

Here's the site link for his church. Nothing on the site about the great whore or any other nonsense. Nothing about being proud of their native land, nothing on there about being unashamedly white, nothing on there about using a white value system......get the point.

So all the speeches that WE SAW Hagee give never happened?

 

[Annie]

So all the speeches that WE SAW Hagee give never happened?

Jillian, I believe the link was to McCain's church, not Hagee's.