Obama DID NOT save GM, the bankruptcy judge did.

[Newby]

The UAW is the majority owner of GM now. What part of this statement:



are you too stupid or too partisan to grasp?

Who/what made them majority owner? And at who's expense?

Chapter 11 Reorganization did...

How and why?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The goal of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, versus Chapter 7, is to become profitable. To achieve this goal, the debtor's first move is to renegotiate leases and contracts and either have debts discharged or partially repay them. Creditors have an incentive to work with the debtor and make compromises, since they generally would not get better terms in a Chapter 7 action.

A reorganization plan puts creditors into different classes with respect to how their claims are handled. The creditors with first priority for repayment include state and federal tax agencies, employees owed wages and stockholder interests; they are each put into their own class. Each secured creditor also is placed in its own class, while unsecured claims are placed together in one class. The plan may modify the amounts and terms for repayment of debts to these creditors. A reorganization plan must be voted on by creditors and approved by the court.

Except that Obama nixed the bond holders. Giving him the power to choose who survived and who didn't.

 

[Newby]

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

But why did the unions get to benefit from that at the taxpayer expense? You say they saved the bond holders from complete loss, so they should be happy. But, that doesn't explain how the union comes out ahead at the end of the deal at the bond holders expense, does it? They took the risks, not the union.

How did the unions come out ahead? They gave up a lot, didn't they? It can't just be about the money. Labor is valuable, too.

And what precident does that set when investors will cease to invest money because their position in line when a company goes under is taken over by those that had no capital investment in the venture at the force of government? Basically it was it was the same thing as nationalizing the company and giving the rewards to the union.

 

[Newby]

Double post.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yeah all those peopel shoudl have jusst lost their pentions they were promised, some for decades

 

[Newby]

The UAW is the majority owner of GM now. What part of this statement:



are you too stupid or too partisan to grasp?

Who/what made them majority owner? And at who's expense?

Chapter 11 Reorganization did...

Obama did and he did it in two steps. Removing the bond holders and substituting our cash for their collateral.

Most people are clueless of the logistics of how this came about, and how unAmerican it was. I don't see how it was even legally done.

 

[VaYank5150]

Chapter 11 Reorganization did...

Obama did and he did it in two steps. Removing the bond holders and substituting our cash for their collateral.

Most people are clueless of the logistics of how this came about, and how unAmerican it was. I don't see how it was even legally done.

So, the legal process of Chapter 11 filing didn't do this, Obama all by his Kingly self, did? Link?

 

[Sallow]

I thought you said it worked and obama gets no credit?

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the city I live in.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

Sounds like ole Gramps is still hurtin' from last night.

Who knows? Maybe someday a Republican will actually DO something that's good for the USA instead of supporting foreign business, foreign banks, Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Insurance ...

Hey, anything is possible, right?

Meanwhile, thank you, Mr. President.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I thought you said it worked and obama gets no credit?

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the city I live in.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I thought you said it worked and obama gets no credit?

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the city I live in.

and that is a valid argument, just as mine is.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I thought you said it worked and obama gets no credit?

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the city I live in.

Then there's the piles and stacks of dead or maimed Americans that the former president LIED about and hid from view.

And, the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians in the country we were supposedly "helping".

Thank Mr. President for killing bin Laden, Gaddafi, al-Awaki and countless other Taliban and/or al-Qeada - all without one single American death and without costing us TRILLIONS of taxpayer's dollars.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

Sounds like ole Gramps is still hurtin' from last night.

Who knows? Maybe someday a Republican will actually DO something that's good for the USA instead of supporting foreign business, foreign banks, Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Insurance ...

Hey, anything is possible, right?

Meanwhile, thank you, Mr. President.

all the things that nearly every politician supports and gets kick backs from, including Obama. Cept you ignore that because of party.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

...how unAmerican it was...

Nothing unAmerican about helping our own country, our own citizens, our own economy.

Its just that we're so used to seeing the R's spending our money on other countries and for the benefit of the 1%.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the cty I live in.

Then there's the piles and stacks of dead or maimed Americans that the former president LIED about and hid from view.

And, the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians in the country we were supposedly "helping".

Thank Mr. President for killing bin Laden, Gaddafi, al-Awaki and countless other Taliban and/or al-Qeada - all without one single American death and without costing us TRILLIONS of taxpayer's dollars.

KIlling Gaddafi will net the same result as when we armed the terrorists. Course, you will ignore that too, for party.

 

[Truthmatters]

Fuck you're dense. ALL OBAMA DID WAS KEEP THE UNIONS FROM BEING ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN THE BANKRUPTCY. AND HE DID IT WITH MY FUCKING MONEY.

How would you feel if the next republican candidate spent your tax dollars to prop up a Christian voting block?

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the city I live in.

Then there's the piles and stacks of dead or maimed Americans that the former president LIED about and hid from view.

And, the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians in the country we were supposedly "helping".

Thank Mr. President for killing bin Laden, Gaddafi, al-Awaki and countless other Taliban and/or al-Qeada - all without one single American death and without costing us TRILLIONS of taxpayer's dollars.

agreed

 

[DaGoose]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

But why did the unions get to benefit from that at the taxpayer expense? You say they saved the bond holders from complete loss, so they should be happy. But, that doesn't explain how the union comes out ahead at the end of the deal at the bond holders expense, does it? They took the risks, not the union.

There is nothing to refute. It is the interpretation of the person that posted that to their website. Information uploaded to that website is not fact checked and I'm not going to waste my time doing so.

Sooooo....in your original post you state:

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

.....yet you openly admit that you 1) do not know any facts, and 2) are simply too lazy to go and find out the facts? Really?

Obama gave the unions the money GM didn't have to fund their benefits. That is where our money went. Why is that so hard to grasp? My money (and yours) is paying for some line workers health and retirement package. It's that simple and its that wrong.

My taxes are supposed to fund our govt not line the pockets of a voting block.

It would help if you two knew what you were talking about.

Under the concessions, which began in 2005, autoworkers gave up cost-of-living pay raises and allowed rule changes so workers could do several jobs. The health care trusts also were created to shift the cost and management of medical costs to the UAW, helping automakers shed billions in liabilities. In return, the companies promised them regular payments.

The givebacks brought costs more in line with Asian automakers that have U.S. plants. GM now pays roughly $58 per hour -- $29 in wages and the rest in benefits and other costs, according to the Center for Automotive Research. For Toyota, that figure is $56. Before the concessions, GM's costs were about $70 per hour.

Although GM, Chrysler and Ford won't go back to the old wages and benefits, negotiations are under way for other rewards, such as profit-sharing. Companies prefer bonuses to raises because they come only if a company makes money or meets goals.

Gov't bailout turns tables for auto union

 

[Truthmatters]

their hate of Obama is becoming pathalogical

 

[Sallow]

My tax dollars were spent invading, conquering and nation building a country that never attacked this one..and was absolutely no threat.

Don't tell me about how "unjust" this is. And this was after my tax money was spent to finance a bat shit crazy terrorist that eventually went on to blow up a major part of the cty I live in.

Then there's the piles and stacks of dead or maimed Americans that the former president LIED about and hid from view.

And, the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians in the country we were supposedly "helping".

Thank Mr. President for killing bin Laden, Gaddafi, al-Awaki and countless other Taliban and/or al-Qeada - all without one single American death and without costing us TRILLIONS of taxpayer's dollars.

KIlling Gaddafi will net the same result as when we armed the terrorists. Course, you will ignore that too, for party.

It might. And it also gives alot of these nations a reason to arm themselves with Nukes since Gaddafi cooperated with the Bush administration.

But it also does something else. It says that if you generate, fund and execute plans to kill American citizens on a large scale; no matter who you are..and no matter where you hide and no matter how long it takes..we will get you.

And it won't be pretty.

 

[VaYank5150]

their hate of Obama is becoming pathalogical

"Becoming"???? I thought they were already there when they consistely called him a terrorist, a ****** and questioned his citizenship even though they had NEVER done so with any white candidate in the past....