Obama DID NOT save GM, the bankruptcy judge did.

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I see the truth gets no attention around here.

 

[Truthmatters]

and so it begins.

He gets only credit for anything negative and no credit for anything positive.

Imagine our suprize that you are so unfair about it.

The revcovery will come and you will try and claim it.

No one with any sense will buy it

 

[Claudette]

YOu can bet your ass Barry was pushing for it.

After all he had to pay back the unions for the millions they added to his war chest.

What a guy.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

and so it begins.

He gets only credit for anything negative and no credit for anything positive.

Imagine our suprize that you are so unfair about it.

The revcovery will come and you will try and claim it.

No one with any sense will buy it

Why should Obama get credit for what a bankruptcy court achieved?

And I DID give him credit for lining the pockets of his union buddies.

My op is factual and if truth matters you would acknowledge that.

 

[editec]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I see the truth gets no attention around here.

"Magical Thinking Czar"

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

The bond holders wouldn't have lost everything. They would have been some of the first in line. And rightly so. The tax payers should have never been involved in this sham.

 

[VaYank5150]

At the end of March 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements. Chapter 11 filing was necessitated largely by inability of former GM entity to support its pension liabilities and also to form commercial alliances with other automakers that could have aided cost reductions in existing business model. On June 8, 2009, General Motors filed for reorganization under the provisions of Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code, and as a direct result investments of all former common stockholders were lost completely, (Reorganized GMGMQ Corporate statement of June 10, 2009; "GM management strongly believes that any recovery for the common stockholders in the chapter 11 bankruptcy process is highly unlikely, even under the most optimistic of scenarios. Stockholders of a company in chapter 11 generally receive value only if all claims of the secured and unsecured creditors are fully satisfied." Prior to chapter 11, the former GM stock hit a high of $93.63 on April 28, 2000.). On July 10, 2009, with financing partially provided by the US Government, General Motors emerged from reorganization. GM was re-listed on the NYSE on November 18, 2010, setting the record for the largest IPO in US history with a value of $20.1 billion.[66] Before the IPO, the U.S. government owned a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government still owns a 12% stake in the company. The Ontario government has owned a 3.8% stake in the company since 2009.

GM had filed for Chapter 11 reorganization on June 8, 2009. Only the US Subsidiary was forced into bankruptcy. Shareholders were left without access to assets from GM owned assets in Asia or Europe. On July 10, 2009, General Motors emerged from Chapter 11 reorganization.[67][68][69] The Company was listed on the New York Stock Exchange and the Toronto Stock Exchange again on November 18, 2010 following a US$33-a-share initial public offering of US$23 billion, including preferred shares. The shareholding in the Company by the U.S. Treasury department is reduced from about 61% to about 33%, including preferred shares and accounting for stock options given to former GM bondholders.[70][71] Disposal of such shares gave the Treasury department about US$13.6 billion in proceeds. It was previously estimated that the Treasury would have to sell GM shares at an average of $43.67 a share to break even. SAIC Motor, partner of GM in China and India, acquired just less than 1 percent of the GM shares for about $500 million.[72][73]

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the facts, had Obama NOT provided GM with tax payer capital, they never could have re-emerged from the bankruptcy he forced them into. So, while I have always disagreed with the bail outs of Wall Street, GM and Chrysler, it would appear that Grandma is twisting the facts to once again attempt to bash Obama. Pretty typical for her....

 

[Sallow]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

The bond holders wouldn't have lost everything. They would have been some of the first in line. And rightly so. The tax payers should have never been involved in this sham.

Ah so..which "sham" should they be involved in?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

At the end of March 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements. Chapter 11 filing was necessitated largely by inability of former GM entity to support its pension liabilities and also to form commercial alliances with other automakers that could have aided cost reductions in existing business model. On June 8, 2009, General Motors filed for reorganization under the provisions of Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code, and as a direct result investments of all former common stockholders were lost completely, (Reorganized GMGMQ Corporate statement of June 10, 2009; "GM management strongly believes that any recovery for the common stockholders in the chapter 11 bankruptcy process is highly unlikely, even under the most optimistic of scenarios. Stockholders of a company in chapter 11 generally receive value only if all claims of the secured and unsecured creditors are fully satisfied." Prior to chapter 11, the former GM stock hit a high of $93.63 on April 28, 2000.). On July 10, 2009, with financing partially provided by the US Government, General Motors emerged from reorganization. GM was re-listed on the NYSE on November 18, 2010, setting the record for the largest IPO in US history with a value of $20.1 billion.[66] Before the IPO, the U.S. government owned a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government still owns a 12% stake in the company. The Ontario government has owned a 3.8% stake in the company since 2009.

GM had filed for Chapter 11 reorganization on June 8, 2009. Only the US Subsidiary was forced into bankruptcy. Shareholders were left without access to assets from GM owned assets in Asia or Europe. On July 10, 2009, General Motors emerged from Chapter 11 reorganization.[67][68][69] The Company was listed on the New York Stock Exchange and the Toronto Stock Exchange again on November 18, 2010 following a US$33-a-share initial public offering of US$23 billion, including preferred shares. The shareholding in the Company by the U.S. Treasury department is reduced from about 61% to about 33%, including preferred shares and accounting for stock options given to former GM bondholders.[70][71] Disposal of such shares gave the Treasury department about US$13.6 billion in proceeds. It was previously estimated that the Treasury would have to sell GM shares at an average of $43.67 a share to break even. SAIC Motor, partner of GM in China and India, acquired just less than 1 percent of the GM shares for about $500 million.[72][73]

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the facts, had Obama NOT provided GM with tax payer capital, they never could have re-emerged from the bankruptcy he forced them into. So, while I have always disagreed with the bail outs of Wall Street, GM and Chrysler, it would appear that Grandma is twisting the facts to once again attempt to bash Obama. Pretty typical for her....

Except you're leaving out what our money was used for. I'll give you one guess......it starts with a U.

And wicki is NOT a reputable source as ANYONE can post "facts" (loosely used) on there.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

The bond holders wouldn't have lost everything. They would have been some of the first in line. And rightly so. The tax payers should have never been involved in this sham.

Ah so..which "sham" should they be involved in?

The only one they're actually tasked with. Protecting the people.

 

[Sallow]

The bond holders wouldn't have lost everything. They would have been some of the first in line. And rightly so. The tax payers should have never been involved in this sham.

Ah so..which "sham" should they be involved in?

The only one they're actually tasked with. Protecting the people.

Yeah?

Which people?

 

[VaYank5150]

At the end of March 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements. Chapter 11 filing was necessitated largely by inability of former GM entity to support its pension liabilities and also to form commercial alliances with other automakers that could have aided cost reductions in existing business model. On June 8, 2009, General Motors filed for reorganization under the provisions of Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code, and as a direct result investments of all former common stockholders were lost completely, (Reorganized GMGMQ Corporate statement of June 10, 2009; "GM management strongly believes that any recovery for the common stockholders in the chapter 11 bankruptcy process is highly unlikely, even under the most optimistic of scenarios. Stockholders of a company in chapter 11 generally receive value only if all claims of the secured and unsecured creditors are fully satisfied." Prior to chapter 11, the former GM stock hit a high of $93.63 on April 28, 2000.). On July 10, 2009, with financing partially provided by the US Government, General Motors emerged from reorganization. GM was re-listed on the NYSE on November 18, 2010, setting the record for the largest IPO in US history with a value of $20.1 billion.[66] Before the IPO, the U.S. government owned a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government still owns a 12% stake in the company. The Ontario government has owned a 3.8% stake in the company since 2009.

GM had filed for Chapter 11 reorganization on June 8, 2009. Only the US Subsidiary was forced into bankruptcy. Shareholders were left without access to assets from GM owned assets in Asia or Europe. On July 10, 2009, General Motors emerged from Chapter 11 reorganization.[67][68][69] The Company was listed on the New York Stock Exchange and the Toronto Stock Exchange again on November 18, 2010 following a US$33-a-share initial public offering of US$23 billion, including preferred shares. The shareholding in the Company by the U.S. Treasury department is reduced from about 61% to about 33%, including preferred shares and accounting for stock options given to former GM bondholders.[70][71] Disposal of such shares gave the Treasury department about US$13.6 billion in proceeds. It was previously estimated that the Treasury would have to sell GM shares at an average of $43.67 a share to break even. SAIC Motor, partner of GM in China and India, acquired just less than 1 percent of the GM shares for about $500 million.[72][73]

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the facts, had Obama NOT provided GM with tax payer capital, they never could have re-emerged from the bankruptcy he forced them into. So, while I have always disagreed with the bail outs of Wall Street, GM and Chrysler, it would appear that Grandma is twisting the facts to once again attempt to bash Obama. Pretty typical for her....

Except you're leaving out what our money was used for. I'll give you one guess......it starts with a U.

And wicki is NOT a reputable source as ANYONE can post "facts" (loosely used) on there.

OK, genius. Since you are the one claiming to be an expert on the subject, please refute the information posted here linked from Wiki. Oh, and please be specific. We have heard enough vagueness from the right at this point.

 

[Truthmatters]

he doesnt know until his masters tell him which people

 

[konradv]

YOu can bet your ass Barry was pushing for it.

After all he had to pay back the unions for the millions they added to his war chest.

What a guy.

Tough shit, that's the system. If you're really concerned, how come you're not clamoring for public financing of elections?

 

[AmericanFirst]

and so it begins.

He gets only credit for anything negative and no credit for anything positive.

Imagine our suprize that you are so unfair about it.

The revcovery will come and you will try and claim it.

No one with any sense will buy it

No, people with sense know obamaturd only claims success and actually does nothing. Pull your head out of his behind.

 

[Syphon]

YOu can bet your ass Barry was pushing for it.

After all he had to pay back the unions for the millions they added to his war chest.

What a guy.

Tough shit, that's the system. If you're really concerned, how come you're not clamoring for public financing of elections?

if you really wanted to keep big money out of elections we need comprehensive election reform. public financing is a good place to start. but so if limited campaigns. by that i mean, campaigns are run for 2-3 years. lets say Obama gets re-elected in 2012. that means by 2013, the GOP will begin to campaign for the 2016 election. this is nonsense. national campaigns should last for 6 months at the most. i say 6 months, just due to the size of the US. state campaigns should be 1-2 months. we would also need to pass a law that eliminated these Super PACs, or at least regulates them.

unfortunately this will never happen..... big money is too powerful to let a law through congress limiting their power.

 

[Newby]

Anyone who believes otherwise is easily fooled in my opinion.

Had the bailout that both Bush and Obama were for worked, the company wouldn't have gone bankrupt anyway. All Obama ultimately did was steal wealth from the bond holders and line the pockets of the unions with it. The company itself remained in the red until the bankruptcy judge allowed certain debts to be dumped and restructured the remaining debts.

Bankruptcy saved GM. Obama saved union votes and wasted our tax dollars.

I sort of see your point.

We paid more than the cap value for the stocks.

The time to have purchased the company was after it went belly up, and the lenders to GM and the bond holders lost everything.

We'd (meaning the US taxpayers) would have gotten the company for a song.

But why did the unions get to benefit from that at the taxpayer expense? You say they saved the bond holders from complete loss, so they should be happy. But, that doesn't explain how the union comes out ahead at the end of the deal at the bond holders expense, does it? They took the risks, not the union.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the facts, had Obama NOT provided GM with tax payer capital, they never could have re-emerged from the bankruptcy he forced them into. So, while I have always disagreed with the bail outs of Wall Street, GM and Chrysler, it would appear that Grandma is twisting the facts to once again attempt to bash Obama. Pretty typical for her....

Except you're leaving out what our money was used for. I'll give you one guess......it starts with a U.

And wicki is NOT a reputable source as ANYONE can post "facts" (loosely used) on there.

OK, genius. Since you are the one claiming to be an expert on the subject, please refute the information posted here linked from Wiki. Oh, and please be specific. We have heard enough vagueness from the right at this point.

There is nothing to refute. It is the interpretation of the person that posted that to their website. Information uploaded to that website is not fact checked and I'm not going to waste my time doing so.