NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

[rtwngAvngr]

Objecting to collecting everyone's phone records - including most innocent Americans who are not charged or suspected of a crime - is being on the terrorists' side??

Bush is over the line on this one.

No. He's over the line on his abject immigration failures. This is fine.

 

[5stringJeff]

I just don't have a problem with them looking for patterns. I think Qwest was wrong, now the terrorists know where to go. USA Today did no Americans a favor today.

Links at site:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014051.php

I have a huge problem with it. If the NSA wants to collect that information about a suspected terrorist or other suspected criminal, that's great. It's not great - nor is it within the limits of the Fourth Amendment - to collect that data on everyone.

 

[5stringJeff]

No. He's over the line on his abject immigration failures. This is fine.

Wrong. The Fourth Amendment limits the right of the federal government to perform searches on people without warrants/probable cause. Or did Rush not talk about that on today's program?

(Bush is wrong on immigration as well, but that's a different topic.)

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

It isn't legal. The Constitution requires probable cause before the government is entitled to do a search. Under certain rare exceptions, such as exigent circumstances, where a warrant isn't needed.

Saying it's okay because you like the guys doing it is dangerous. Someday someone you don't like will have that power.

What separates us from a banana republic if our citizens' privacy can be violated with impunity just because the president yells "terrorism"?

If someone is believed to be a terrorist...go after them. This garbage about people being pro-terrorist if they don't believe in government tyranny doesn't fly. So ... :chillpill

You doubt the fact that the government can find "probable cause" or a
loophole that best fits their needs?

As I said, I don't think it's right. Has nothing to do with my previous line of
work or if I like anyone. It has everything to do with it seeming harmless to
me, I have nothing to hide.

 

[dilloduck]

I have a huge problem with it. If the NSA wants to collect that information about a suspected terrorist or other suspected criminal, that's great. It's not great - nor is it within the limits of the Fourth Amendment - to collect that data on everyone.

so you would take another 9/11 hit instead?

 

[5stringJeff]

so you would take another 9/11 hit instead?

False dilemma.

 

[Mr. P]

Exactly my thoughts of THIS TYPE of surveillance--the price is right.

At what price, FREEDOM?
At what price, PRIVACY?
At what price, The Constitution?

Does the patriot act say anything about “mining” data from the public at large? No.

At what price?

 

[dilloduck]

At what price, FREEDOM?
At what price, PRIVACY?
At what price, The Constitution?

Does the patriot act say anything about “mining” data from the public at large? No.

At what price?

So people keep trying to threaten me with---I'm not that paranoid nor do I think the government is competent enough to herd us up like sheep. Nothing--absolutley nothing has happened to any innocent person since this information collecting has been occurring. I'm more concerned about threats to our country from the outside than theoretic "what ifs?".

 

[rtwngAvngr]

False dilemma.

Not using every tool to fight terrorists hastens their success. It's not really a false dilemma.

 

[Mr. P]

So people keep trying to threaten me with---I'm not that paranoid nor do I think the government is competent enough to herd us up like sheep. Nothing--absolutley nothing has happened to any innocent person since this information collecting has been occurring. I'm more concerned about threats to our country from the outside than theoretically "what ifs?".

I agree with the "outside"..As far as inside, it's not a matter of "what if", it's happening. We are the old frog in the pot of water. Sad but true.

 

[insein]

Complete Bullshit. I agree with Jeff. There is no grounds to do an all inclusive invasion into the privacy of everyone's phone calls. If the NSA has a suspicion about a suspected terrorist then atc on it. Tap his phones, follow him, do whatever you deem neccessary. To lazily monitor every phone in the country for "security purposes" brings us one step closer to Communism.

Bush is a dolt for introducing this but it will be MUCH worse if someone like Hillary or a Howard Dean were to ever get their hands on this. Wiretaps on political enemies will be used as political ammo in campaigns. Censorship of ideas. No more freedom to speak your mind in your own phone conversations. Political Correctness enforced on your phone lines. No this is NOT a good thing at all.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Wrong. The Fourth Amendment limits the right of the federal government to perform searches on people without warrants/probable cause. Or did Rush not talk about that on today's program?

(Bush is wrong on immigration as well, but that's a different topic.)

THis is not a search or a seizure.

I haven't listened to Rush much since he was such a blithering moron on the port deal. There's really no need for the condescension.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I just don't have a problem with them looking for patterns. I think Qwest was wrong, now the terrorists know where to go. USA Today did no Americans a favor today.

Links at site:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014051.php

I agree Kathianne.

And if the gov't only collected data on Muslims, for example, people would complain that it was racial or religious profiling. And it we get hit again, they will complain that the gov't didn't do enough to protect us. I am glad that they are looking for patterns.

As someone said earlier, collecting data on phone calls made is not a problem, it's what the gov't does with the information that could be problematic. Can anyone point to some prosecutorial misconduct that has occurred because of this data?

 

[Abbey Normal]

Complete Bullshit. I agree with Jeff. There is no grounds to do an all inclusive invasion into the privacy of everyone's phone calls. If the NSA has a suspicion about a suspected terrorist then atc on it. Tap his phones, follow him, do whatever you deem neccessary. To lazily monitor every phone in the country for "security purposes" brings us one step closer to Communism.

Bush is a dolt for introducing this but it will be MUCH worse if someone like Hillary or a Howard Dean were to ever get their hands on this. Wiretaps on political enemies will be used as political ammo in campaigns. Censorship of ideas. No more freedom to speak your mind in your own phone conversations. Political Correctness enforced on your phone lines. No this is NOT a good thing at all.

From what I understand, no calls were listend to or recorded.

 

[dilloduck]

I agree with the "outside"..As far as inside, it's not a matter of "what if", it's happening. We are the old frog in the pot of water. Sad but true.

America is going to have to take risks and make choices in a post 9/11 world. Pussy footing around and being insanely aware of what MIGHT happen to one uptight and easily offended person is paralyzing. Kennedys' speech regarding "ask not -------" has been drowned out by choruses of " don't you dare mess with my stuff ". We are selfish and THAT'S what will boil the frog.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It's for a credit check as far as I know. After some 8 years after being a BellSouth customer for many years, I went back to them a month ago.
Even as a past customer they wanted an ssi number. Sux, but the price was right.

Whoa. You mean they were doing a credit check on you without your knowledge or permission? This seems as intrusive on your privacy as anything else the government is doing with the phone companies.

And if they were supposedly "checking your credit" then what is the minimum score needed to obtain phone service? Do they publish these requirements somewhere? I've never heard of any minimum requirements.

Myself I have excellent credit, but it seems they could offer just local service which only puts them at risk for maybe only $20 a month for those who don't want to divulge their SSN or for those who have bad credit. What happens to the millions of people with bad credit? They can't get local phone service?

 

[jillian]

America is going to have to take risks and make choices in a post 9/11 world. Pussy footing around and being insanely aware of what MIGHT happen to one uptight and easily offended person is paralyzing. Kennedys' speech regarding "ask not -------" has been drowned out by choruses of " don't you dare mess with my stuff ". We are selfish and THAT'S what will boil the frog.

No offense, Dillo, but

If we trash everything this country is about while using the excuse of 9/11 to do so, we have nothing. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves.

We're so concerned with promoting democracy and human rights that we're willing to trade our own?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No offense, Dillo, but

If we trash everything this country is about while using the excuse of 9/11 to do so, we have nothing. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves.

We're so concerned with promoting democracy and human rights that we're willing to trade our own?

It's amazing how you libs become so freedom oriented when it comes to aiding the enemies of the u.s. And fucking sick.

 

[Mr. P]

I agree Kathianne.

And if the gov't only collected data on Muslims, for example, people would complain that it was racial or religious profiling. And it we get hit again, they will complain that the gov't didn't do enough to protect us. I am glad that they are looking for patterns.

As someone said earlier, collecting data on phone calls made is not a problem, it's what the gov't does with the information that could be problematic. Can anyone point to some prosecutorial misconduct that has occurred because of this data?

Not yet...Is it 1984 yet?

 

[dilloduck]

No offense, Dillo, but

If we trash everything this country is about while using the excuse of 9/11 to do so, we have nothing. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves.

We're so concerned with promoting democracy and human rights that we're willing to trade our own?

Quite an exageration "trash everything". So typical to resort to hypebole to panic the ignorant. We haven't given up a damn thing. Show me what you have lost other than an illusion of some kind of "privacy".