NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

[JOKER96BRAVO]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin

"Necessity never made a good bargain." - Ben Franklin

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think they should stipulate that the only crimes that can be prosecuted from this data are security related. Libs still wouldnt go for it. Helping the terrorists is their goal.

 

[5stringJeff]

THis is not a search or a seizure.

The federal government is searching through 200 million citizens' phone records to look for call patterns that would lead to terrorist activity. How one can not call it a search is beyond me.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The federal government is searching through 200 million citizens' phone records to look for call patterns that would lead to terrorist activity. How one can not call it a search is beyond me.

Yes. They're searching in databases, which are not the property of the citizenry.

 

[GotZoom]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin

The quote is actually:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I would say that stopping a murder, pedophile, or terrorist attack is a bit more than temporary safety.

He also said:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

 

[5stringJeff]

Yes. They're searching in databases, which are not the property of the citizenry.

The data they are searching is none of the federal government's business. They're private calls, made through a transaction with a private company. Not to mention, the calls are made by people who are neither accused nor suspected of crimes. Unconstitutional.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

The quote is actually:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I would say that stopping a murder, pedophile, or terrorist attack is a bit more than temporary safety.

He also said:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe. -
H. L. Mencken:

 

[5stringJeff]

Giving up one or two rights to help ensure safety and security does not the downfall of society make.

We give up rights every day.

The Fourth Amendment specifically protects this right from encroachment, specifically for this reason: to protect the innocent.

 

[jillian]

I think they should stipulate that the only crimes that can be prosecuted from this data are security related. Libs still wouldnt go for it. Helping the terrorists is their goal.

I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.

Most importantly, what good will the information do if the government has it to use at it's whim, but doesn't use it to actually stop terrorism? The FBI had info about all of the 9/11 hijackers. It was never put to good use.

And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.

 

[5stringJeff]

And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.

Most importantly, what good will the information do if the government has it to use at it's whim, but doesn't use it to actually stop terrorism? The FBI had info about all of the 9/11 hijackers. It was never put to good use.

And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.

There's no constitutional crisis here. Citizens don't OWN entries in databases with their phone number.

The government failing to use the information properly is a different issue. You're really stretching now.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

There's no constitutional crisis here. Citizens don't OWN entries in databases with their phone number.

The government failing to use the information properly is a different issue. You're really stretching now.

This is true, and the phone companies are giving THEIR data to NSA.

 

[jillian]

Thanks!

 

[GotZoom]

I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.

Most importantly, what good will the information do if the government has it to use at it's whim, but doesn't use it to actually stop terrorism? The FBI had info about all of the 9/11 hijackers. It was never put to good use.

And if the government is certain that someone is a possible terrorist, let them get a warrant. If there's an exigent circumstance, government doesn't need one, so the argument that this information is needed to "fight terrorism" is specious.

You didn't ask me but I will answer anyway.

Yes, I have. April 12, 1984, Hezbollah bombed a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force base in Torrejon, Spain.

83 people were injured and 18 U.S. military members died. One of them being my friend who died in my arms.

If the U.S. government (or any government) can prevent something like that (or worse) from happening again by listening to phone calls, they have my 100% approval.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm kind of curious...before I split, have you ever been through a terrorist attack? Ever read anything that the Israeli's do to curtail terrorism? They sure don't monitor the phone records of everyone.

What do they do?

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Coming into this a bit late, but with the statement that I agree with dillo, zoom, and the rest that it is two different things with a video camera in each room of your home, and the gov't compiling data (that's just the data, NOT recordings) of whom is calling whom.

Personally, I really don't care that they are collecting this info. If they want to see how many times I order Jimmy Johns, talk to my mom, or use my 2-way on my nextel to talk to Tim, what do I care? I am legit, and have no intentions of doing anything illegal. It isn't as if the gov't is interested in 99% of our sordid affairs. They are looking for patterns and out-of-norm/unusual calls made internally and externally. This has not and will not affect my daily life because I am not a criminal.

I just switched my phone service from Qwest to Comcast digital, because of a deal they are offering me since I have their cable net service and basic cable. I used to like qwest until they f-ed up my DSL service for 4 months straight after I moved into our house (they tried to blame it on both my computers the whole time, yet comcast service worked just fine immediately after installation). Then there were billing issues that were totally out of line following that. The fact that they refuse to comply makes me feel all the better about changing services.

As for the SSN requirement to sign up for service from them, they DO tell you that they will be running a credit check to make sure you don't have any past due/collections bills from any utility companies. They do not look at beacon scores, just any red flags of past due accounts.

 

[dilloduck]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin

Which is EXACTLY what you are trying to tell us we need to do. You would have us sacrifice the right to live in a country that was doing everything it could to protect us from a viscious enemy so you can have the security of knowing that you phone records are kept private ???

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I wonder how the government knows who is a terrorist on the other end of the phone line...as in the international calls.

 

[GotZoom]

I wonder how the government knows who is a terrorist on the other end of the phone line...as in the international calls.

They know where the call is coming from.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I wonder how the government knows who is a terrorist on the other end of the phone line...as in the international calls.

They beat the information out of your grandmother no doubt.