NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon users: Why?

[HereWeGoAgain]

Can you handle the truth?

EMF Targeting. TruTV Jesse Ventura on Ondemand. Targeted Individuals. I don't hear the voices. Paranoia is an inside joke. This leaves racing thoughts and an ear ache as my only symptoms. I was compelled to by a meter. The one item Jesse didn't bring up, but he proved that people can be targeted. It'll be here Monday. I'm testing everything. Even the casino, police cars and red light cameras.

Electro Magnetic Field (EMF) - Hazardous to Our Health?

I just thought of this just before I was contacting the McClaughlin Group on WTTW . I like the show and comment weekly. You can watch online or on PBS Saturday Night.

I think this NSA will be a discussed issue and I have some input.

I can assure you,Targeted individuals are real.
And I'll leave it at that....

 

[depotoo]

another question. Why have none of the most recent attacks from Ft. Hood to the Boston attack not been thwarted, seeing as they have been data mining for awhile now?

 

[paulitician]

another question. Why have none of the most recent attacks from Ft. Hood to the Boston attack not been thwarted, seeing as they have been data mining for awhile now?

In my assessment, the Boston Attack looks like a horribly botched FBI Operation. They likely funded and facilitated the event. They do things like that all the time. It's clear they were well aware of those guys. But it's interesting and predictable that the MSM has gone quiet on the FBI angle. You're not seeing anymore reporting on that. That's an ominous sign that the Government did play a part in it. It's full cover up-mode from here on out.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

another question. Why have none of the most recent attacks from Ft. Hood to the Boston attack not been thwarted, seeing as they have been data mining for awhile now?

In my assessment, the Boston Attack looks like a horribly botched FBI Operation. They likely funded and facilitated the event. They do things like that all the time. * * * *

Nutter "theories" like that lower your credibility, a bit more, each time you post them.

 

[S.J.]

another question. Why have none of the most recent attacks from Ft. Hood to the Boston attack not been thwarted, seeing as they have been data mining for awhile now?

Because Obama is not looking for terrorists, he's looking for political opponents to track and target.

 

[Geaux4it]

Look- Obama has finally called for a Independent Investigator. Not for Benghazi, IRS, AP, NSA, but to find out who leaked the information about the mining.

you see, apparently it's against the law for Americans to be informed that the Governement is breaking the law.

-Geaux

 

[Mertex]

You care that they also have the LOCATION of the calls, time date, duration? So they know where you travel, where your KIDS are, who you bank with, your client list, a good idea of who you donate to, ect, ect. But it's more than that. It's an elegant data processing system that displays associations and movements of people and money. Do you know that you are not just twice removed from a suspect? Maybe someone at your mosque or church or bridge club?

So, you think they are actually examining each and every number for such details?

They already know who you donate to, unless you don't claim them on your income tax, and who you bank with is not hard to find out even without your phone number. As for where your kids are, it's not like the phone number provides a GPS with a video of where your kids are. You seem to have some paranoid twisted picture of the government being some mean evil ogre wanting to do harm to your children.


No, not really. If the government was going to single me out for whatever reason, there is other ways that they can obtain information about me. I'm not paranoid that way.
People who have things to hide are usually the ones that are getting all freaked out over it.

You're a trusting sole. A couple visits from some 3 letter agencies will fix that real quick like.

Based on what? My phone number and the people that have accessed my number?
If they wanted to get me that bad, they wouldn't need my phone number. You're missing the whole point of the need for the information and how it is going to be used.

Look Mertex.. You be the innocent little lamb and see where it gets you.. 85% of the USMB are smart enough to see the wolf at the door.. There's a poll on the board that says that.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the polls at USMB. Is it anything like the poll this member is referring to?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/election-forums/255334-it-s-looking-like-obama-may-go-down-big.html#post6180081

I COULD explain to you how sophisticated and amazing modern data mining techniques are. I have that background. I also know a bit about the spy biz.. But why bother?? You are not listening when I tell you they have access to LOCATION DATA as part of that data.
And you think the govt knows about donations to 501 C3/C4 interest orgs and they don't. They only know about donations to PARTIES and POLITICIANS.

So you have the background and know a bit about spy biz - that doesn't mean the Government is the big "boogey man" just waiting for a chance to come after me.

THINK you have nothing to hide?? Do you have batteries and fertilizer in your garage?

Well, we don't have a garage. We used to, but we converted it into a game room. The only fertilizer I have is "Miracle Grow", and they would have to go after Home Depot, before the come after me.

Those are "bomb-making" materials.. Ever carry lots of cash? Or have any Pyrex cookware in your kitchen? Tweezers in your drawers? Sure signs of drug dealing if you do. Be surprised at how quickly one can get framed.

I carry enough cash, but not enough to be afraid to get my purse stolen. I realize that people can get framed, but, if I'm going to be worrying about crap like that, I would be living a miserable life.

So did the lady this week at the Congressional hearing that had the IRS send 3 other agencies to check her out SIMPLY -- because of political shenanigans. SHE had nothing to hide either.. But MISUSE of technology and power made her life hell.

How many instances like these do you think happen? I think we are having way more instances of people trying to kill innocent people, than the government trying to frame people.

Have a great time defending the indefensible.. You must be SOOO scared of terrorists, that you don't mind the risk of living in an instant tyranny. Just pull the switch, and start data mining for some subversive connection in your life according to the new boss.

I'm not scared of terrorists, to the contrary, I'm glad that the government is doing all it can to protect me from people like those two idiots in Boston. But it appears that you are sooooo scared of the government, you think that Obama is cooking up some plot to come against you, must be hell living in that kind of tyranny. You have just been watching too much Glenn Beck, that's all.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not far out at all. But lets compare the solutions.
You see a pattern here?

Issue - Gathering Phone Records.
Liberal Solution - Repeal Patriot Act.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.
libertarian Solution -- Follow the letter of the damn authorizing legislation. Then SUNSET the Patriotic Act. Turn the Utah
NSA facility into a place to monitor the GOVERNMENT itself..

Issue - Benghazi Attacks.
Liberal Solution - Provide embassy with funding for proper security.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.
libertarian solution -- find ALL the problems including those bad calls that were made. Find out what Obama was watching on TV since he seems to have NOTHING to add to the narrative.

Issue - Spying on Journalists.
Liberal Solution - Enact Journalist protection laws.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.
libertarian solution -- Put some asses in jail. We already have protection. Strengthen protection for the SOURCES as well.

Issue - IRS profiling.
Liberal Solution - Comport 501c law and regulation. Provide funding.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.
libertarian Solution -- End the IRS as we know it and fix the fucking tax code.

Couldn't help myself.. Just like the choices you folks offer at election time -- these choices were the same kind of sucky.. How did we get here? By YOU -- the 2 party only people ---protecting incumbent parties and politicians because u wear their colors..

BTW: B4 i get stabbed in the back by my comrades.. I KNOW my responses are not Libertarian enough for ya -- so i used a little L

 

[hortysir]

Not a conspiracy theory. It's really happening. The Guardian has a copy of the court order.

I'd heard this on Levin earlier and checked it out. The Guardian (left wing Brit newspaper) is reporting that the NSA is secretly collecting millions of Verizon subscribers phone records.

Check this out.

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday.

All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

More at link:

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily | World news | The Guardian

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

And in a couple years you'll be saying "They're just gathering the names. It's not like they're gathering their addresses"

Then, after that, it'll be "So they're gathering the names and addresses. It's not like they're going door-to-door"

Camel's nose, hell!
Half his damned body is in the tent now

 

[paulitician]

another question. Why have none of the most recent attacks from Ft. Hood to the Boston attack not been thwarted, seeing as they have been data mining for awhile now?

In my assessment, the Boston Attack looks like a horribly botched FBI Operation. They likely funded and facilitated the event. They do things like that all the time. * * * *

Nutter "theories" like that lower your credibility, a bit more, each time you post them.

Anything but a 'Nutter theory.' The FBI & CIA fund and facilitate events like this all the time. It's fact. They were well aware of those two guys. They were likely involved with facilitating an event. It could have been horribly botched, or they wanted an attack to happen. Obviously, i can't say for sure though.

The cover up has begun. The MSM has already stopped reporting on the fact the FBI knew all about those guys. It has been scrubbed from all their reporting on the attack. And you can bet that's intentional. But like i said, one can never say for sure. As usual, the cover up will be very deep and thorough. It is very sad but it is what it is.

 

[paulitician]

Not to derail the thread, but then there's this guy. They couldn't let him talk...


Tsarnaev Friend Killed By FBI In Boston Bombing Probe Was 'Unarmed'

A Chechen man shot dead by the FBI during questioning on his links to the Boston Marathon bombers was unarmed, The Washington Post reported.

Ibragim Todashev, 27, was shot by the FBI in Orlando, Florida a week ago after he allegedly stabbed an agent during questioning on his possible involvement with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in a triple homicide that took place before the Boston attacks.

The domestic intelligence agency did not name Todashev at the time.

A law enforcement official told the Post, however, that Todashev had lunged at the FBI agent and overturned the table, but had neither a gun nor a knife.

The shooting came after hours of questioning by law enforcement officials that began the night before.

Investigators told US media that Tsarnaev and Todashev were believed to have murdered three people in a Boston suburb two years ago whose bodies were found nearly decapitated and covered with marijuana and thousands of dollars in cash.

After the shooting, Todashev's father Abdulbaki Todashev questioned the FBI's account of the incident in which his son was said to have attacked bureau personnel with a knife...

Read more: Tsarnaev Friend Killed By FBI In Boston Bombing Probe Was 'Unarmed' - Business Insider

 

[IlarMeilyr]

In my assessment, the Boston Attack looks like a horribly botched FBI Operation. They likely funded and facilitated the event. They do things like that all the time. * * * *

Nutter "theories" like that lower your credibility, a bit more, each time you post them.

Anything but a 'Nutter theory.' The FBI & CIA fund and facilitate events like this all the time. It's fact. They were well aware of those two guys. They were likely involved with facilitating an event. It could have been horribly botched, or they wanted an attack to happen. Obviously, i can't say for sure though.

The cover up has begun. The MSM has already stopped reporting on the fact the FBI knew all about those guys. It has been scrubbed from all their reporting on the attack. And you can bet that's intentional. But like i said, one can never say for sure. As usual, the cover up will be very deep and thorough. It is very sad but it is what it is.

^ A completely unsupported nutter theory is still a nutter theory. In fact, it's worse.

 

[paulitician]

Nutter "theories" like that lower your credibility, a bit more, each time you post them.

Anything but a 'Nutter theory.' The FBI & CIA fund and facilitate events like this all the time. It's fact. They were well aware of those two guys. They were likely involved with facilitating an event. It could have been horribly botched, or they wanted an attack to happen. Obviously, i can't say for sure though.

The cover up has begun. The MSM has already stopped reporting on the fact the FBI knew all about those guys. It has been scrubbed from all their reporting on the attack. And you can bet that's intentional. But like i said, one can never say for sure. As usual, the cover up will be very deep and thorough. It is very sad but it is what it is.

^ A completely unsupported nutter theory is still a nutter theory. In fact, it's worse.

Not any nuttier than the absurd lies the corrupt Government/Media Complex puts out there. But hey, i know most Americans have grown accustomed to and actually enjoy being lied to. It's all most know i guess.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Anything but a 'Nutter theory.' The FBI & CIA fund and facilitate events like this all the time. It's fact. They were well aware of those two guys. They were likely involved with facilitating an event. It could have been horribly botched, or they wanted an attack to happen. Obviously, i can't say for sure though.

The cover up has begun. The MSM has already stopped reporting on the fact the FBI knew all about those guys. It has been scrubbed from all their reporting on the attack. And you can bet that's intentional. But like i said, one can never say for sure. As usual, the cover up will be very deep and thorough. It is very sad but it is what it is.

^ A completely unsupported nutter theory is still a nutter theory. In fact, it's worse.

Not any nuttier than the absurd lies the corrupt Government/Media Complex puts out there. But hey, i know most Americans have grown accustomed to and actually enjoy being lied to. It's all most know i guess.

No. YOUR nutter theory has no support at all. You have a paranoid fear and then blithely proceed to state it as though it were some kind of "fact."

That has nothing at all to do with accepting government lies.

Lots of things claimed by the government are either lies or distortions. That's generally unacceptable, too. But it sure doesn't excuse you saying nutty shit like you did.

 

[boedicca]

There's one crucial aspect to all this Big Data gathering that should worry everyone:

The U.S. regulatory regime has run amok to the extent that everyone has broken some law or regulation without even knowing it. Not even the government overseers know the breadth and depth of what is illegal.

There is an extreme moral hazard for politicians and the permanent bureaucracy to target individuals, and then leverage the Big Data sources to find something, anything with which to "get" the target. It is naive in the extreme to think the data will not be used and abused in this way.

 

[FA_Q2]

There's one crucial aspect to all this Big Data gathering that should worry everyone:

The U.S. regulatory regime has run amok to the extent that everyone has broken some law or regulation without even knowing it. Not even the government overseers know the breadth and depth of what is illegal.

There is an extreme moral hazard for politicians and the permanent bureaucracy to target individuals, and then leverage the Big Data sources to find something, anything with which to "get" the target. It is naive in the extreme to think the data will not be used and abused in this way.

I have to quote it again:

You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system

- you all know

 

[Contumacious]

NSA Whistleblower Thomas Drake on the National Security Police State
He Lucked out because he is white, not a muslim or other disfavored ethnic or political minority

.

 

[Mertex]

Not a conspiracy theory. It's really happening. The Guardian has a copy of the court order.

I'd heard this on Levin earlier and checked it out. The Guardian (left wing Brit newspaper) is reporting that the NSA is secretly collecting millions of Verizon subscribers phone records.

Check this out.

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday.

All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

More at link:

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily | World news | The Guardian

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

And in a couple years you'll be saying "They're just gathering the names. It's not like they're gathering their addresses"

Then, after that, it'll be "So they're gathering the names and addresses. It's not like they're going door-to-door"

Camel's nose, hell!
Half his damned body is in the tent now

Er, if they have the cell phone number, they don't have to wait another year to get the name, like it goes with the number!

 

[flacaltenn]

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

And in a couple years you'll be saying "They're just gathering the names. It's not like they're gathering their addresses"

Then, after that, it'll be "So they're gathering the names and addresses. It's not like they're going door-to-door"

Camel's nose, hell!
Half his damned body is in the tent now

Er, if they have the cell phone number, they don't have to wait another year to get the name, like it goes with the number!

U'r too stone stupid to keep your freedom in a republic like ours.. You don't think enough..
You need to shop for a good benevolent dictatorship, where you can be happy and safe.

Maybe Cuba? It's close and convienient...

 

[PaulS1950]

What's the big deal? Both parties are doing the same thing.

It's OK to lose your rights as long as you FEEL safer....

wait, if it only makes you feel safer and you give up your rights then what is left to protect you when you haven't done anything wrong?

Those who would give up their rights and freedoms for temporary safety deserve neither safety nor their rights and freedoms.