not understanding the voter ID issue...

[Uncensored2008]

Supporters of Voter ID laws routinely justify them by claiming they are necessary to combat an epidemic of people showing up at the polls and claiming to be someone else. And yet, when asked to prove that such an epidemic exists, their case immediately falls apart. When the Supreme Court abdicated its responsibility to strike down these unconstitutional assaults on the franchise four years ago, it was only able to cite one actual example of voter fraud in the last 140 years.

Snip of plagiarized bullshit

Tags:
Voter ID
Voting Rights


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REPORT: Nine People Denied Voting Rights By Voter ID Laws | ThinkProgress

* Jim Tucker died in 1972. Juan Portillo was paid $50 to vote in Tucker's name in the 2008 election. Juan worries that voter ID laws will keep him from participating in the 2012 elections. Juan told ThinkProgress "Necesito realmente los $500 para los diez votos que echo para la ACORN cada elección."

* Tyrone White is a Vietnam veteran who also worries what the effect of voter ID laws will be on him. "Shit, the ACORN people done gives me some really solid rocks last election. ID will block me from gettin those rocks."

* Ted Stillaman of Chicago laments, "Without dead people voting, this just won't be America. The dead voting is a Chicago tradition."

 

[Foxfyre]

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.

Government should be encouraging fair and honest elections, not discouraging.

 

[Flopper]

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.

Government should be encouraging fair and honest elections, not discouraging.

Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted in the last election.

Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.

 

[Flopper]

Supporters of Voter ID laws routinely justify them by claiming they are necessary to combat an epidemic of people showing up at the polls and claiming to be someone else. And yet, when asked to prove that such an epidemic exists, their case immediately falls apart. When the Supreme Court abdicated its responsibility to strike down these unconstitutional assaults on the franchise four years ago, it was only able to cite one actual example of voter fraud in the last 140 years.

Snip of plagiarized bullshit

Tags:
Voter ID
Voting Rights


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REPORT: Nine People Denied Voting Rights By Voter ID Laws | ThinkProgress

* Jim Tucker died in 1972. Juan Portillo was paid $50 to vote in Tucker's name in the 2008 election. Juan worries that voter ID laws will keep him from participating in the 2012 elections. Juan told ThinkProgress "Necesito realmente los $500 para los diez votos que echo para la ACORN cada elección."

* Tyrone White is a Vietnam veteran who also worries what the effect of voter ID laws will be on him. "Shit, the ACORN people done gives me some really solid rocks last election. ID will block me from gettin those rocks."

* Ted Stillaman of Chicago laments, "Without dead people voting, this just won't be America. The dead voting is a Chicago tradition."

You have 3 out of how many voters?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted in the last election.

Then you have nothing to worry about, voter ID laws won't do anything.

Of course that you ARE so worried demonstrates that the reality is much higher than 120 people.

Standard Disclaimer: A buddy who is with the CHP patrols a section of the I-15. He says he writes about 20 tickets a day for speeding. The section of freeway between Temecula and San Diego sees about 100,000 cars a day. I guess that means only 20 people a day speed....

 

[Peach]

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.

Of course, but some want voting to be as difficult as possible. A sad reflection of the nation that a few do not understand the intent of the Founders.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You have 3 out of how many voters?

Nah.

Like the ThinkProgress article, I just made them up.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.

Of course, but some want voting to be as difficult as possible. A sad reflection of the nation that a few do not understand the intent of the Founders.

Not at all. We want voting to be done by those who care enough about their government and their country to get themselves down to the courthouse or other authorized location and register to vote. And that would require identifying themselves and showing some proof of residence in the precinct in which they register. And then I want them to study the issues and candidates and get themselves to the polling place on the assigned date. And cast their informed vote for the candidate of their choice. And I want them to again show that they are the person that is shown to be registered in that precinct.

I want voting to become a responsibility of citizenship again, and not something that is bought and sold to the highest bidder or something that can be easily maniupulated by people who do not have your or my interests at heart.

 

[muckraker]

Well at least you admit it. If we do not know who you are, vote, it will be for a democrat

 

[francoHFW]

A) There is NO EVIDENCE voter ID will solve any fraud problem, that's pure Pubcrappe.
B) Of course many poor urban types have no licenses, MORON, and guess who they are, racist chumps of the greedy rich....

 

[Too Tall]

There are many people who do not have a current driver's license. Not everyone owns a car, you know. And many old people do not drive.

Here's one example:
Voter thwarted in Waukesha for lack of ID - JSOnline

The sad thing about that particular case of a registered American citizen voter not being allowed to vote is that the Voter ID law wasn't even in effect yet, but she was still asked for Voter ID and did not have one, so she was not allowed to vote.
You already have to prove your citizenship and eligibility to vote when you register to vote. Voter ID is a solution looking for a problem. Proper management of the registered voter rolls would eliminate/catch all voter fraud. In over two centuries of voting in America, there is not one case of fraud which could not be solved or caught by proper voter registration management.

Therefore, one can only conclude that since Voter ID is unnecessary for the purpose of ensuring only authorized American citizens vote, then its TRUE purpose is obviously something else.

Don't drink the bongwater.

But currently people are voting for weeks ahead of the election at all sorts of places, and if they happen to not be on the roster, they are allowed to vote anyway. There is far too much opportunity to vote twice, to vote under assumed names, to shift whole voting blocks to a different precinct to ensure the election of some favored somebody, to vote for the dead, etc. etc. etc. UNLESS some effort is made to verify the identiy of the person voting.

If the 'old folks' can produce the necessary identification to sign up for their social security checks, to establish membership at the Senior Citizens center, or even get into the local courthouse, it is not an imposition for them to provide the same identification to vote.

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Why do you consider casting a provisional ballot jumping through hoops? There are a lot of people with the same name the last time I checked.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm confused as to what your question is.

Are you asking how anyone can physically survive without driving?


or are you asking how many eligible voters likely will not be able to vote if voter id laws are passed?



I can answer both:

Unfortunately, you can't be truthful .



So you oppose cars casting a vote for Obama?



ROFL

The lies you frauds float are funny.

One of the standard lying points that frauds like to float is "old people will be unable to vote because they don't drive."

Uh sparky, how do they cash their social security check?

Direct deposit.

That requires ID, as does filling a medicare prescription.

Next standard lie from the voter fraud squad; "da po will be disenfranchazized."

So how do they cash the welfare check? How do they get the food stamp card? The WIC vouchers?

THERE IS ONE, and only one reason to oppose voter ID, because you promote election fraud.

I'm a bit confused here. Are we talking about people getting their prescriptions filled or are we talking about voter ID laws? Because the state of South Carolina's own election Commission says that 217,000 of its residents lack the proper ID to vote.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&es...tYDbCg&usg=AFQjCNGOOv_HxJh0MZC0VGvlEBLTDhBmOg


Its interesting how right wing nutbaggers think simply saying 'how can anyone live without an ID' somehow alters the objective reality that 217,000 South Carolinians will be denied the right to vote under the new law. Its a FACT that hundreds of thousands of eligible voters nationwide lack the ID required to vote under such laws, and its a FACT that far few numbers of people have been caught fraudulently casting ballots by means of lying about their identity. Its also a fact that most of the potentially disenfranchised fall into tradiotionally Democratic demographics. Its frankly, unreasonable to dnny the right to vote to hundreds of thousands of people to prevent a few dozen fraudulent ballots from being cast - UNLESS you DON'T WANT those hundreds of thousands of eligible voters to vote.

So its hard to reach any conclusion other than that the right wing wants to do whatever it can to keep the old, the poor, the young, and the black from showing up in the voting booth.

Because the state of South Carolina's own election Commission says that 217,000 of its residents lack the proper ID to vote.

Did they also say how many of those 217,000 are illegal aliens?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You pro-fraud types are a hoot. Why would illegals care about law enforcement contact?

Because they don't want to get deported SHIT FOR BRAINS.

We don't enforce our immigration laws, illegals don't fear our LEO's, why would they?

Deportations Of Immigrants Hits Record Number Under Obama Administration

The idea that the deportable are not afraid of deportation is frankly, STUPID. It reveals either how dumn you are - or how dumb you think we are and the extent to which you are willing to lie.

Because they don't want to get deported ......



Hmmmmm......I can't remember the last time I saw any ICE agents outside my polling place.

 

[Too Tall]

I would like for the anti-voter-ID folks to give me one good reason why positive ID to vote is a bad idea.

We already have.

Now you give me one reason its a good idea.

So far every type of fraud named in this thread either a) can be better prevented using another method or b) would not at all be prevented by ID laws.

So I fail to see why its a good idea.




Debunked how? By saying "Oh, no way, you can't live without an ID!" Do you know what "debunk" means?




Sorry, but I don't routinely ask my friends and families to provide photo identification, so I wouldn't even know. I guess you do? That's fucked.

, maybe they'll explain why they haven't given that person a ride down to the DMV and given them the $5 to get a photo ID.

No one has asked me to. I always help out friends and family when I can. They'll need more than $5 where I live.

I can almost guarantee that you don't need more than $5 to get a photo ID no matter where you live. And if you find somebody who can't afford a photo ID and it DOES cost more than $5, if you'll pay the first $5 I'll pay the difference.

I am guessing that every state that requires Photo ID to vote will have some kind of provision to provide free or nominal cost Photo ID for purpose of voting to those who honestly cannot afford to get a Photo ID. So far all 28+ states that require Photo ID to vote have received favorable court rulings in favor of Photo ID when people like you have challenged those laws.

The ONLY reason that anybody can legitimately have for not wanting people to have to prove who they are when they vote is to make it easier to commit voter fraud.

This is my state:

You may want to apply for a Georgia photo identification card if you currently do not have a valid driver's license due to it being suspended or revoked, according to Georgia's Department of Driver Services (DDS). The ID card is available to Georgia residents of all ages and serves many important purposes; however, you cannot use the ID card to drive. You can use the ID card to apply for a passport, apply for government benefits, verify your identity when using a bank or credit card or prove your age when purchasing alcoholic beverages and cigarettes, according to the Unofficial DMV Guide.

You can obtain a free Georgia ID card to use for voting if you meet certain requirements (see Resources for more details).

Read more: How to Get a Photo ID in Georgia | eHow.com How to Get a Photo ID in Georgia | eHow.com

 

[Too Tall]

I would like for the anti-voter-ID folks to give me one good reason why positive ID to vote is a bad idea.

We already have.

Now you give me one reason its a good idea.

So far every type of fraud named in this thread either a) can be better prevented using another method or b) would not at all be prevented by ID laws.

So I fail to see why its a good idea.




Debunked how? By saying "Oh, no way, you can't live without an ID!" Do you know what "debunk" means?




Sorry, but I don't routinely ask my friends and families to provide photo identification, so I wouldn't even know. I guess you do? That's fucked.

, maybe they'll explain why they haven't given that person a ride down to the DMV and given them the $5 to get a photo ID.

No one has asked me to. I always help out friends and family when I can. They'll need more than $5 where I live.

I can almost guarantee that you don't need more than $5 to get a photo ID no matter where you live. And if you find somebody who can't afford a photo ID and it DOES cost more than $5, if you'll pay the first $5 I'll pay the difference.

I am guessing that every state that requires Photo ID to vote will have some kind of provision to provide free or nominal cost Photo ID for purpose of voting to those who honestly cannot afford to get a Photo ID. So far all 28+ states that require Photo ID to vote have received favorable court rulings in favor of Photo ID when people like you have challenged those laws.

The ONLY reason that anybody can legitimately have for not wanting people to have to prove who they are when they vote is to make it easier to commit voter fraud.

This is my state:

You may want to apply for a Georgia photo identification card if you currently do not have a valid driver's license due to it being suspended or revoked, according to Georgia's Department of Driver Services (DDS). The ID card is available to Georgia residents of all ages and serves many important purposes; however, you cannot use the ID card to drive. You can use the ID card to apply for a passport, apply for government benefits, verify your identity when using a bank or credit card or prove your age when purchasing alcoholic beverages and cigarettes, according to the Unofficial DMV Guide.

You can obtain a free Georgia ID card to use for voting if you meet certain requirements (see Resources for more details).

Read more: How to Get a Photo ID in Georgia | eHow.com How to Get a Photo ID in Georgia | eHow.com

 

[Lakhota]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

$10? That alone shows your lack of knowledge and understanding.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As a precinct worker twice, and as a voter once, I have witnessed people coming in to vote who saw the name of a deceased person signing in.

Ooo! I've got a plan! Let's remove the name of deceased persons from the voter rolls! Then no one can vote in their name, no matter how good the fake ID is! Problem solved. That might take some effort, though, so nevermind!

One was the wife of a man who had died 30 days before, and she almost fainted when she saw that her husband was signed in. It was really cruel. For years when the margin was very close, and was in favor of the Republican, a missing ballot box was magically found with just enough votes to swing the election the other way. Were the votes in the ballot box legitimate? There was no way to know.

Want to tell me how voter ID laws are going to prevent someone on the inside from stuffing a ballot box?

Since we went to a voter ID system and tightened up other procedures, there have been almost no incidents of voter fraud.

You mean none that you know of. Someone could still be voting in the name of dead people, all they need is a fake ID with the dead person's name on it.

A more full proof method of preventing people from voting in the name of the dead would be to set up a system whereby state death records are cross-checked with the voter rolls just before the election. But hey, why use a method that is more effective at preventing fraud and results in less disenfranchisement of those who are eliible voters?


So far every voter fraud you've mentioned either

a) can be prevented through other means that are both more effective at stopping the fraud and result in less denial of legal votes or

b) would not be prevented by voter ID laws at all.

BTW - how much training were you given on how to spot fake IDs? Did they test you on your ability by sending in secret fakers?

Ooo! I've got a plan! Let's remove the name of deceased persons from the voter rolls! Then no one can vote in their name, no matter how good the fake ID is! Problem solved. That might take some effort, though, so nevermind!

Whenever a state tries to purge their voter rolls, the Dems sue.
They're afraid some dead voters might be disenfranchised.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not everyone needs social services or to open an bank account. I don't need to open a bank account, for instance. I've already got one.



Its the right wing that is suggseting life is oppresively hard if you don't have an ID. If that's true its hard to imagine that hundreds of thousands of people without ID's wouldn't have already tried - and failed - to obtain one.

Maybe we should require they say the pledge and jump through a hoop, too. If they can't be bothered to jump through a hoop why should they be bothered to vote?


Because at best it wouldn't stop much voter fraud that can't be prevented more effectively by other means and at worst millions of eligible voters will be turned away at the polls.

If you don't think that's a valid reason then you're just stupid.

Whenever you opened your bank account, even 25 years ago, you needed to produce positive ID. Want a library card?

I don't think a 25 year old ID would satisfy voter ID requirements as it would be expired (except in Arizona).

Need pic ID +2 utility bills or mortgage bill.

Dude, why is it that the right wing can't conceive of anything outside of their own world? Do you seriously think the requirements to open an account at your particular bank must apply everywhere in time and space? Do you have any evidence that all banks requried a photo ID to open an account in 1987 or is that statement true just because it sounds right? Also - utility bills? Then you might want to call up my bank and inform them they aren't subscribing to what you have decided the ID requirements to open a bank account anywhere must be.

Want to buy liquor or cigarettes? Must have State Issued ID, with pic: DL, Military ID, Passport. That's it.

I buy alcohol on a routine basis without presenting ID. But I fail to see what the ability to purchase alcohol even has to do with voting.

I just bought a CD at my bank and had to show ID.
I just cashed a check at my bank and had to show ID.
I've had an account there since the early 1980s.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All of the above would be to demonstrate that at least in IL, or at least in one county, (the largest outside of Cook), of the 5 county metro area, that voter ID would not be a burden on anyone. If one doesn't have a DL, they can get a state issued ID for free or nominal costs, if they can afford.

Sure they can get a state ID if they have all the right documents.

Yes. That stops most illegals from getting ID now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.

They should encourage eligible voters to vote.
One way is to secure the legitimacy of the ballot.