not understanding the voter ID issue...

[gallantwarrior]

I have no idea why anyone would think Voter ID is a bad thing.

Everyone should have ID to prove that they are who they are. A picture ID proves that you are who you say you are. Good idea in my book.

Because its impossible to make a fake ID - and if you did - part time poll workers are very well trained in the art of spotting fakes.

So, your stupid, lazy potential voters don't have the wherewithal to legally acquire an ID, but they are capable of manufacturing fake ID so convincing that it will pass inspection?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Folks have no problem getting ID for social services, banks and any number of other things.
Who says they couldn't use that same ID at the voting booth??

Not everyone needs social services or to open an bank account. I don't need to open a bank account, for instance. I've already got one.



Its the right wing that is suggseting life is oppresively hard if you don't have an ID. If that's true its hard to imagine that hundreds of thousands of people without ID's wouldn't have already tried - and failed - to obtain one.

Maybe we should require they say the pledge and jump through a hoop, too. If they can't be bothered to jump through a hoop why should they be bothered to vote?

I can see no valid reason why anyone would object to a voter ID. Common Sense 101.

Because at best it wouldn't stop much voter fraud that can't be prevented more effectively by other means and at worst millions of eligible voters will be turned away at the polls.

If you don't think that's a valid reason then you're just stupid.

Whenever you opened your bank account, even 25 years ago, you needed to produce positive ID. Want a library card?

I don't think a 25 year old ID would satisfy voter ID requirements as it would be expired (except in Arizona).

Need pic ID +2 utility bills or mortgage bill.

Dude, why is it that the right wing can't conceive of anything outside of their own world? Do you seriously think the requirements to open an account at your particular bank must apply everywhere in time and space? Do you have any evidence that all banks requried a photo ID to open an account in 1987 or is that statement true just because it sounds right? Also - utility bills? Then you might want to call up my bank and inform them they aren't subscribing to what you have decided the ID requirements to open a bank account anywhere must be.

Want to buy liquor or cigarettes? Must have State Issued ID, with pic: DL, Military ID, Passport. That's it.

I buy alcohol on a routine basis without presenting ID. But I fail to see what the ability to purchase alcohol even has to do with voting.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Oh well heck we should definitely deny them their right to vote since they might not want it.



I've not made such an assumption.

But you seem to be making an assumption that if they are required to produce a positive ID to vote that they will be denied their right to vote.

When they dont have the ID they are denied their right to vote its not an assumption its a fact that happened to 5 million poeople in 2008 alone

According to the arguments presented by the pro-fraud faction, they have not been denied the vote to date because they have not had to present appropriate ID.

 

[Annie]

Not everyone needs social services or to open an bank account. I don't need to open a bank account, for instance. I've already got one.



Its the right wing that is suggseting life is oppresively hard if you don't have an ID. If that's true its hard to imagine that hundreds of thousands of people without ID's wouldn't have already tried - and failed - to obtain one.

Maybe we should require they say the pledge and jump through a hoop, too. If they can't be bothered to jump through a hoop why should they be bothered to vote?


Because at best it wouldn't stop much voter fraud that can't be prevented more effectively by other means and at worst millions of eligible voters will be turned away at the polls.

If you don't think that's a valid reason then you're just stupid.

Whenever you opened your bank account, even 25 years ago, you needed to produce positive ID. Want a library card?

I don't think a 25 year old ID would satisfy voter ID requirements as it would be expired (except in Arizona).

Need pic ID +2 utility bills or mortgage bill.

Dude, why is it that the right wing can't conceive of anything outside of their own world? Do you seriously think the requirements to open an account at your particular bank must apply everywhere in time and space? Do you have any evidence that all banks requried a photo ID to open an account in 1987 or is that statement true just because it sounds right? Also - utility bills? Then you might want to call up my bank and inform them they aren't subscribing to what you have decided the ID requirements to open a bank account anywhere must be.

Want to buy liquor or cigarettes? Must have State Issued ID, with pic: DL, Military ID, Passport. That's it.

I buy alcohol on a routine basis without presenting ID. But I fail to see what the ability to purchase alcohol even has to do with voting.

All of the above would be to demonstrate that at least in IL, or at least in one county, (the largest outside of Cook), of the 5 county metro area, that voter ID would not be a burden on anyone. If one doesn't have a DL, they can get a state issued ID for free or nominal costs, if they can afford.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

All of the above would be to demonstrate that at least in IL, or at least in one county, (the largest outside of Cook), of the 5 county metro area, that voter ID would not be a burden on anyone. If one doesn't have a DL, they can get a state issued ID for free or nominal costs, if they can afford.

Sure they can get a state ID if they have all the right documents.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Folks have no problem getting ID for social services, banks and any number of other things.
Who says they couldn't use that same ID at the voting booth??

You seem to think thousands wouldn't bother to get that ID. That thousands wouldn't want to spend any money to get an ID.

f they can't be bothered to get ID then perhaps they wouldn't bother to vote either.

I can see no valid reason why anyone would object to a voter ID. Common Sense 101.

Common sense is a concept unknown in the liberal lexicon. Just like: personal responsibility, independence, or earning you keep, among others, are unknown to libs.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Tell that tot he 100 year old laddies whove voted for the past 50 years but cant any more

Which lads are these? (unless you meant "ladies.") Why would they not be able to get a picture ID? What makes someone think that a person who voted for 50 years, starting at age 50, would not have made the tiny effort to get ID?

So according to you making it so millions cannot take vote is bringing them independence and initiative

So you are admitting that millions of votes are fraudulent? That democrats use millions of dead and illegal votes every election?

perhape if you actually took some time to think isntead of reguirtate talking poitns you wouldnt say such retarded shit

What?

Perhaps if someone used a "retard to English" dictionary, they could translate what you wrote...

Who knew that not wanting to deny millions their right to vote is big brother.
god you need help because you are dumber then bricks

Who knew that democrats were putting through millions of fraudulent votes each election.

That the fraud is that rampant gives me hope for the future, maybe Americans AREN'T so stupid as to elect democrats. Maybe it's fraud that puts these pukes in power.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Can someone please tell me how voter ID laws are going to widespread prevent voter fraud?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Who knew that democrats were putting through millions of fraudulent votes each election.

Anyone who is opposed to evidence based thought knows that for a fact. They said it on FOX, it must be true.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ooo! I've got a plan! Let's remove the name of deceased persons from the voter rolls! Then no one can vote in their name, no matter how good the fake ID is! Problem solved. That might take some effort, though, so nevermind!

I've got a better idea, why don't we show ID when we vote so that we acknowledge who we are?

Oh, that's right - you depend on fraud to win elections.

 

[Annie]

All of the above would be to demonstrate that at least in IL, or at least in one county, (the largest outside of Cook), of the 5 county metro area, that voter ID would not be a burden on anyone. If one doesn't have a DL, they can get a state issued ID for free or nominal costs, if they can afford.

Sure they can get a state ID if they have all the right documents.

Which are easy enough for anyone, even the homeless. Check out IL + State ID.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Folks have no problem getting ID for social services, banks and any number of other things.
Who says they couldn't use that same ID at the voting booth??

You seem to think thousands wouldn't bother to get that ID. That thousands wouldn't want to spend any money to get an ID.

f they can't be bothered to get ID then perhaps they wouldn't bother to vote either.

I can see no valid reason why anyone would object to a voter ID. Common Sense 101.

Actually, there are a whole lot of Ukrainians and Croatians who demand that U.S. banks stop disenfranchising them by requiring ID and account numbers to make withdrawals.

They have the exact same motive as OohPahDo.

 

[Flopper]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society. This is being done despite the fact that there have been fewer cases of voter fraud at the polling place in this country in the last decade than there have been cases of Jay-walking. The reason this is being done by Republicans is that they clearly understand that those people who are least able to obtain the proscribed ID are the most likely to vote for Democrats.

If the Republican have their way we will all end up as feudal peasants, it is the GOP dream; a very few of them lording over the vast majority of us.

how can someone not get an ID? I really don't understand that part

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Can someone please tell me how voter ID laws are going to widespread prevent voter fraud?

OK, so when your boi loses in November, you won't be rioting in the streets and filing legal suit to have the election declared a fraud, then.
ID requirements prevent fraud from all parties, not just the Dems.

 

[Annie]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society. This is being done despite the fact that there have been fewer cases of voter fraud at the polling place in this country in the last decade than there have been cases of Jay-walking. The reason this is being done by Republicans is that they clearly understand that those people who are least able to obtain the proscribed ID are the most likely to vote for Democrats.

If the Republican have their way we will all end up as feudal peasants, it is the GOP dream; a very few of them lording over the vast majority of us.

how can someone not get an ID? I really don't understand that part

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Can someone please tell me how voter ID laws are going to widespread prevent voter fraud?

By positively identifying the person casting the vote as the person registered.

You really didn't grasp that? No wonder you voted for Obama.

 

[Foxfyre]

I would like for the anti-voter-ID folks to give me one good reason why positive ID to vote is a bad idea.

We already have.

Now you give me one reason its a good idea.

So far every type of fraud named in this thread either a) can be better prevented using another method or b) would not at all be prevented by ID laws.

So I fail to see why its a good idea.

The probability that anybody who can legally register to vote would not have a photo ID or cannot get a photo ID has already been debunked by at least a dozen people on this thread. (Of course the debunking has been religiously ignored.)

Debunked how? By saying "Oh, no way, you can't live without an ID!" Do you know what "debunk" means?

And in the unlikely event that they actually know somebody with a legitimate address who honestly does not have a photo ID

Sorry, but I don't routinely ask my friends and families to provide photo identification, so I wouldn't even know. I guess you do? That's fucked.

, maybe they'll explain why they haven't given that person a ride down to the DMV and given them the $5 to get a photo ID.

No one has asked me to. I always help out friends and family when I can. They'll need more than $5 where I live.

I can almost guarantee that you don't need more than $5 to get a photo ID no matter where you live. And if you find somebody who can't afford a photo ID and it DOES cost more than $5, if you'll pay the first $5 I'll pay the difference.

I am guessing that every state that requires Photo ID to vote will have some kind of provision to provide free or nominal cost Photo ID for purpose of voting to those who honestly cannot afford to get a Photo ID. So far all 28+ states that require Photo ID to vote have received favorable court rulings in favor of Photo ID when people like you have challenged those laws.

The ONLY reason that anybody can legitimately have for not wanting people to have to prove who they are when they vote is to make it easier to commit voter fraud.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Supporters of Voter ID laws routinely justify them by claiming they are necessary to combat an epidemic of people showing up at the polls and claiming to be someone else. And yet, when asked to prove that such an epidemic exists, their case immediately falls apart. When the Supreme Court abdicated its responsibility to strike down these unconstitutional assaults on the franchise four years ago, it was only able to cite one actual example of voter fraud in the last 140 years.

The laws’ opponents, however, do not have this problem. Here are just nine examples of the kinds of people being denied voting rights by Voter ID laws:

•Ricky Tyrone Lewis is a 58 year-old Marine Corps veteran. Despite the fact that he was able to offer Wisconsin voting officials proof of his honorable discharge from the Marines, Milwaukee County has been unable to find the record of his birth that he needs in order to obtain a voter ID card.

•Ruthelle Frank is an 84 year-old former elected official who voted in every election for the last 63 years, yet she will be unable to obtain a voter ID unless she pays a fee to obtain a birth certificate from the Wisconsin government — despite the fact that the Constitution explicitly forbids any voter from being charged a fee in order to vote. Worse, because the attending physician at her birth misspelled her name on her original birth certificate, she may need to pay hundreds of dollars in court fees to petition the state judiciary to correct her certificate before she can obtain a voter ID.

•Paul Carroll is an 86-year-old World War II veteran who has lived in the same Ohio town for four decades. Yet, when he attempted to vote in the recent Ohio primary, he was told his photo ID from the Department of Veterans Affairs was not good enough because it did not include his address.

•Dorothy Cooper is a 96-year-old African-American woman who says she has voted in every election but one since she became eligible to vote. Yet, when she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away because she did not have a copy of her marriage license. In a subsequent interview, Cooper said that she didn’t even have problems voting in Tennessee “during Jim Crow days” — only now under Voter ID.

•Thelma Mitchell is a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years. She never received a birth certificate, however, because she was delivered by a midwife in Alabama in 1918 and there was no record of her birth. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away for lack of a birth certificate by a clerk who suggested she could be an illegal immigrant.

•Virginia Lasater is a 91-year-old woman who has been active in political campaigns for 70 years. Because of her advanced age, however, she is no longer able to stand for extended periods of time. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was confronted with lines that stretched for several hours and no place to sit while she waited — forcing her to abandon her effort to obtain an ID due to her physical constraints.

•Darwin Spinks is an 86 year-old World War II veteran. He was told to pay a fee before he could obtain a voter ID in Tennessee, despite the fact that charging someone to vote is unconstitutional.

•Rita Platt is a Wisconsin resident who was turned away from her attempt to obtain a voter ID because she required either a birth certificate or a passport to obtain one — both of which can only be obtained if the voter pays a fee. Worse, in Wisconsin, voters must fill out a misleading form which suggests that they cannot obtain the birth certificate they need to obtain a photo ID unless they already have a photo ID.

•Jessica Cohen is a Texas resident who lost her license and other identification papers in a burglary. She now must also pay an unconstitutional fee in order to obtain the birth certificate she needs to obtain a new voter ID. Because Cohen lives in Texas, she will likely be able to vote in 2012 because the Department of Justice blocked Texas’ law under the Voting Rights Act — although there is a high risk that the Supreme Court’s conservatives will declare the Voting Rights Act unconstitutional.


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Voter ID
Voting Rights


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REPORT: Nine People Denied Voting Rights By Voter ID Laws | ThinkProgress

 

[Annie]

Supporters of Voter ID laws routinely justify them by claiming they are necessary to combat an epidemic of people showing up at the polls and claiming to be someone else. And yet, when asked to prove that such an epidemic exists, their case immediately falls apart. When the Supreme Court abdicated its responsibility to strike down these unconstitutional assaults on the franchise four years ago, it was only able to cite one actual example of voter fraud in the last 140 years.

The laws’ opponents, however, do not have this problem. Here are just nine examples of the kinds of people being denied voting rights by Voter ID laws:

•Ricky Tyrone Lewis is a 58 year-old Marine Corps veteran. Despite the fact that he was able to offer Wisconsin voting officials proof of his honorable discharge from the Marines, Milwaukee County has been unable to find the record of his birth that he needs in order to obtain a voter ID card.

•Ruthelle Frank is an 84 year-old former elected official who voted in every election for the last 63 years, yet she will be unable to obtain a voter ID unless she pays a fee to obtain a birth certificate from the Wisconsin government — despite the fact that the Constitution explicitly forbids any voter from being charged a fee in order to vote. Worse, because the attending physician at her birth misspelled her name on her original birth certificate, she may need to pay hundreds of dollars in court fees to petition the state judiciary to correct her certificate before she can obtain a voter ID.

•Paul Carroll is an 86-year-old World War II veteran who has lived in the same Ohio town for four decades. Yet, when he attempted to vote in the recent Ohio primary, he was told his photo ID from the Department of Veterans Affairs was not good enough because it did not include his address.

•Dorothy Cooper is a 96-year-old African-American woman who says she has voted in every election but one since she became eligible to vote. Yet, when she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away because she did not have a copy of her marriage license. In a subsequent interview, Cooper said that she didn’t even have problems voting in Tennessee “during Jim Crow days” — only now under Voter ID.

•Thelma Mitchell is a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years. She never received a birth certificate, however, because she was delivered by a midwife in Alabama in 1918 and there was no record of her birth. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away for lack of a birth certificate by a clerk who suggested she could be an illegal immigrant.

•Virginia Lasater is a 91-year-old woman who has been active in political campaigns for 70 years. Because of her advanced age, however, she is no longer able to stand for extended periods of time. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was confronted with lines that stretched for several hours and no place to sit while she waited — forcing her to abandon her effort to obtain an ID due to her physical constraints.

•Darwin Spinks is an 86 year-old World War II veteran. He was told to pay a fee before he could obtain a voter ID in Tennessee, despite the fact that charging someone to vote is unconstitutional.

•Rita Platt is a Wisconsin resident who was turned away from her attempt to obtain a voter ID because she required either a birth certificate or a passport to obtain one — both of which can only be obtained if the voter pays a fee. Worse, in Wisconsin, voters must fill out a misleading form which suggests that they cannot obtain the birth certificate they need to obtain a photo ID unless they already have a photo ID.

•Jessica Cohen is a Texas resident who lost her license and other identification papers in a burglary. She now must also pay an unconstitutional fee in order to obtain the birth certificate she needs to obtain a new voter ID. Because Cohen lives in Texas, she will likely be able to vote in 2012 because the Department of Justice blocked Texas’ law under the Voting Rights Act — although there is a high risk that the Supreme Court’s conservatives will declare the Voting Rights Act unconstitutional.


Tags:
Voter ID
Voting Rights


Previous in TP Justice

Next in TP Justice


By clicking and submitting a comment I acknowledge the ThinkProgress Privacy Policy and agree to the ThinkProgress Terms of Use. I understand that my comments are also being governed by Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, or Hotmail’s Terms of Use and Privacy Policies as applicable, which can be found here.

REPORT: Nine People Denied Voting Rights By Voter ID Laws | ThinkProgress

Since most of this deals with WI, weird:

Voter Photo ID Law Information | Government Accountability Board

Voter Photo ID Law Status

Two separate judges, on March 6 and March 12, 2012, have issued injunctions preventing the Government Accountability Board from enforcing photo ID requirements in 2011 Act 23. The Wisconsin Department of Justice has appealed those injunctions, and the appeals have been certified to the Wisconsin Supreme Court, which on April 16 sent them back to the respective Courts of Appeals.
Read the G.A.B.'s statement regarding the March 6 order.
Information for Local Elections Officials about Voter Photo ID.

2011 Wisconsin Act 23 Information

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation is still providing free state ID cards. To learn about getting a free Wisconsin ID card, please visit the Wisconsin Department of Transportation website: Obtaining an ID card - Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

On March 6, 2012, Dane County Circuit Court Judge David Flanagan ordered the Government Accountability Board and Governor Walker to “cease immediately any effort to enforce or implement the photo identification requirements of 2011 Wisconsin Act 23, pending trial of this case and further order of the court.”

On March 12, 2012, Dane County Circuit Judge Judge Richard Niess declared "2011 Wisconsin Act 23’s photo ID requirements unconstitutional to the extent they serve as a condition for voting at the polls." The judge also permanently enjoined the defendants "from any further implementation or enforcement of those provisions."

Act 23 contains several other non-photo-ID provisions affecting elections, including residency and absentee voting. These provisions, including the requirement to sign the poll list, are still in effect. Please see the links below.

This page contains information for voters and local election officials about the law and its requirements. It will be updated as the Board develops new educational materials.

 

[Flopper]

how can someone not get an ID? I really don't understand that part

For some people putting supper on the table is more important than getting a photo id. The need for photo ids depends on your personal circumstances and where you live. If you don't drive as millions don't and you are dependent on someone else there may be no need for a photo id. If you're poor and you're disabled, getting an id can be difficult. It's not that it's impossible. It's just a lot harder than it is for most people.

Not that difficult, see earlier response about IL + State ID to Ooomp. If all the options are too taxing, so is voting.

Government should be encouraging people to vote, not discouraging.