Northern nations warming faster than global average

[IanC]

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

You are starting to sound like BillyBoob.

What wavelengths are O2 and N2 radiating away energy? Why does radiation start at cold temperatures high up? What could possibly stop it lower down?

An aside to illustrate the concept...

CO2 has three vibrational states but only the 15 micron band is important to atmospheric physics. Why? Because common atmospheric temperatures are too cold to produce the other two vibration states. CO2 would happily accept the higher energy photons but they would have to come from a high temperature source.

 

[IanC]

It rebuts your statement because it shows your energy release path as one of fiction over about 96% of the earth.

My energy relese path? CO2 absorbing surface emitted 15 micron radiation in the first few metres, then emitting a fraction of that to space much higher up?

Why don't you describe where the 4% resides so that I can guess at your thoughts.

What you fail to see is water cools as it rises. This means the wave length of the energy obtained at surface level will be a much longer wave length at TOA.

Total gobbledygook.

Why didnt you describe the 4%?

 

[Wuwei]

Models of the radiative greenhouse effect assume that all the CO2 molecules in the atmosphere are busy absorbing IR and emitting IR...that simply is not true... About 1 in a million CO2 molecules actually emits the energy it absorbs....the rest lose that energy via a collision. Now take the amount of energy that the models assume CO2 to be radiating and reduce it so that rather than all of the CO2 molecules are radiating IR, only 1 in a billion are radiating IR...

CO2 in the first dozen meters are busy absorbing CO2 from the earth. The CO2 in that region and above radiate at a rate of 1/30,000, not 1 in a billion.

2/9 of all CO2 molecules are always in a bending mode of vibration and capable of radiating with a 1/30,000 probability.

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

O2 and N2 don't radiate in the IR region. CO2 and a few other trace gases are able to radiate at the TOA. H2O has precipitated out long before.


.

 

[Billy_Bob]

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

You are starting to sound like BillyBoob.

What wavelengths are O2 and N2 radiating away energy? Why does radiation start at cold temperatures high up? What could possibly stop it lower down?

An aside to illustrate the concept...

CO2 has three vibrational states but only the 15 micron band is important to atmospheric physics. Why? Because common atmospheric temperatures are too cold to produce the other two vibration states. CO2 would happily accept the higher energy photons but they would have to come from a high temperature source.

Your having a real hard time with this, aren't you.. Its Basic Physics Ian...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Models of the radiative greenhouse effect assume that all the CO2 molecules in the atmosphere are busy absorbing IR and emitting IR...that simply is not true... About 1 in a million CO2 molecules actually emits the energy it absorbs....the rest lose that energy via a collision. Now take the amount of energy that the models assume CO2 to be radiating and reduce it so that rather than all of the CO2 molecules are radiating IR, only 1 in a billion are radiating IR...

CO2 in the first dozen meters are busy absorbing CO2 from the earth. The CO2 in that region and above radiate at a rate of 1/30,000, not 1 in a billion.

2/9 of all CO2 molecules are always in a bending mode of vibration and capable of radiating with a 1/30,000 probability.

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

O2 and N2 don't radiate in the IR region. CO2 and a few other trace gases are able to radiate at the TOA. H2O has precipitated out long before.


.

So you can show us in a lab all this heat generate by an extra wisp of CO2?

 

[Billy_Bob]

It rebuts your statement because it shows your energy release path as one of fiction over about 96% of the earth.

My energy relese path? CO2 absorbing surface emitted 15 micron radiation in the first few metres, then emitting a fraction of that to space much higher up?

Why don't you describe where the 4% resides so that I can guess at your thoughts.

What you fail to see is water cools as it rises. This means the wave length of the energy obtained at surface level will be a much longer wave length at TOA.

Total gobbledygook.

Why didnt you describe the 4%?

Yep... Your having serious problems with basic physics...

Tell me Ian, what regulates the wave length of emitted radiation?

This is where your 4% is and more..

 

[jc456]

Models of the radiative greenhouse effect assume that all the CO2 molecules in the atmosphere are busy absorbing IR and emitting IR...that simply is not true... About 1 in a million CO2 molecules actually emits the energy it absorbs....the rest lose that energy via a collision. Now take the amount of energy that the models assume CO2 to be radiating and reduce it so that rather than all of the CO2 molecules are radiating IR, only 1 in a billion are radiating IR...

CO2 in the first dozen meters are busy absorbing CO2 from the earth. The CO2 in that region and above radiate at a rate of 1/30,000, not 1 in a billion.

2/9 of all CO2 molecules are always in a bending mode of vibration and capable of radiating with a 1/30,000 probability.

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

O2 and N2 don't radiate in the IR region. CO2 and a few other trace gases are able to radiate at the TOA. H2O has precipitated out long before.


.

So you can show us in a lab all this heat generate by an extra wisp of CO2?

from everything I've read in here 20 PPM is more lethal than 380 PPM

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Canada is warming at twice the global rate, report says - CNN
and
Canada’s Changing Climate Report

• The observed warming of Canadian temperatures are due to "human influence."
• There has been more rain than snowfall in Canada since 1948, a trend that looks to continue over the 21st century.
• Temperature extremes have changed in Canada, meaning extreme warm temperatures are getting hotter and extreme cold is becoming less cold.
• Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and intense.
• Over the last 30 years, the amount of snow-covered land has decreased in Canada.
• Flooding is expected to increase in Canada because of sea-level rise.
• Freshwater shortages in the summer are expected because warmer summers will increase the evaporation of surface water.

We've known that the Arctic had been warmed more than the rest of the planet by a significant margin. It should come as no surprise, then, that countries on the Arctic margin should share in that elevated warming: Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Finland and Russia are all likely to experience accelerated warming particularly on their northern boundaries.

The crazy Climatephobes are fun to watch

 

[IanC]

Conduction is in no way a more efficient means of moving energy than radiation...where the hell do you get such stupid ideas? Radiation is a very cumbersome means of moving energy compared to radiation.

Conduction and convection are matter mediated forms of energy transport. This is both a strength and a weakness. Radiation needs no intermediary but it is slow to move energy.

Put your hand an inch to the side of a red hot electric element. Then put your hand an inch above the element. Now touch the element. Still think all paths are the same?

 

[IanC]

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

You are starting to sound like BillyBoob.

What wavelengths are O2 and N2 radiating away energy? Why does radiation start at cold temperatures high up? What could possibly stop it lower down?

An aside to illustrate the concept...

CO2 has three vibrational states but only the 15 micron band is important to atmospheric physics. Why? Because common atmospheric temperatures are too cold to produce the other two vibration states. CO2 would happily accept the higher energy photons but they would have to come from a high temperature source.

Your having a real hard time with this, aren't you.. Its Basic Physics Ian...

Please...show me where and why I am wrong.

Unlike you, I wont run away or change the subject.

 

[Billy_Bob]

And all gas molecules radiate...an O2 or N2 molecule can radiate energy that they acquired via collision with another molecule when the molecules become so rarified that energy movement via conduction is no longer possible.

You are starting to sound like BillyBoob.

What wavelengths are O2 and N2 radiating away energy? Why does radiation start at cold temperatures high up? What could possibly stop it lower down?

An aside to illustrate the concept...

CO2 has three vibrational states but only the 15 micron band is important to atmospheric physics. Why? Because common atmospheric temperatures are too cold to produce the other two vibration states. CO2 would happily accept the higher energy photons but they would have to come from a high temperature source.

Your having a real hard time with this, aren't you.. Its Basic Physics Ian...

Please...show me where and why I am wrong.

Unlike you, I wont run away or change the subject.

As the energy rises the molecule cools and the wave length elongates. This is where your 4% of missing energy is going. And its in Conduction and Convection where the process terminates in water vapor re-nucleation at TOA where the energy is emitted at 20-70um..

 

[IanC]

Tell me Ian, what regulates the wave length of emitted radiation?

Emissivity and temperature. And phase.

 

[IanC]

As the energy rises the molecule cools and the wave length elongates. This is where your 4% is going.

Higher energy means cooling? Have you been drinking already?

 

[IanC]

It rebuts your statement because it shows your energy release path as one of fiction over about 96% of the earth

Are you now saying that it is not 96% of the Earth but 96% of the time?

Why are you always making mistakes and misrepresentations?

 

[Billy_Bob]

It rebuts your statement because it shows your energy release path as one of fiction over about 96% of the earth

Are you now saying that it is not 96% of the Earth but 96% of the time?

Why are you always making mistakes and misrepresentations?

Roughly 96% OF THE EARTH IS WATER VAPOR DEPENDENT. Only 4% of the earth is radiative dependent.

ETA: I misunderstood what you wrote earlier. The 4% of energy that is supposed to be creating warming is gone and the reason there can not be a hot spot in our atmosphere.

 

[Billy_Bob]

As the energy rises the molecule cools and the wave length elongates. This is where your 4% is going.

Higher energy means cooling? Have you been drinking already?

You cant read the graphing can you. Cooling results in LESS energy.

Absorption coefficient of carbon dioxide across atmospheric troposphere layer

 

[IanC]

Roughly 96% OF THE EARTH IS WATER VAPOR DEPENDENT. Only 4% of the earth is radiative dependent

WTF are you talking about? All energy LOSS is radiative. Shuffling energy around can be done by many pathways.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Roughly 96% OF THE EARTH IS WATER VAPOR DEPENDENT. Only 4% of the earth is radiative dependent

WTF are you talking about? All energy LOSS is radiative. Shuffling energy around can be done by many pathways.

You simply can not grasp the concept. Your so fixated on CO2 that you cant see the forest through the trees...

 

[IanC]

As the energy rises the molecule cools and the wave length elongates. This is where your 4% is going.

Higher energy means cooling? Have you been drinking already?

You cant read the graphing can you. Cooling results in LESS energy.

Absorption coefficient of carbon dioxide across atmospheric troposphere layer

Why did you state "as energy rises the molecule cools". (Quoted above)

What did you want me take away from that link? It doesn't make any claims that CO2 is radiating any wavelengths other than 15 microns.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Does any of this explain how atmospheric CO2 heats the ocean down to 2,000M?