No tort reform, no change

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by cbi0090, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. cbi0090
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    cbi0090 Member

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    There isn't going to be any change in health care costs without tort reform, Period. It's going to take the acknowledgment that medical care is a vocation that is only as good as the people applying it and that people are not physically created equal. Any kind of medical care carries a degree of risk and the plaintiff side of the legal system has taken advantage of that to a point where the system is becoming paralyzed. The entire industry is a feeding ground for these parasites.
    Of course, it's all done in the name of "for the people" and they are masters of telling you sob stories but the overall effect has done nothing but escalate normal health care costs to a point where few can afford it anymore. Health care is not the science everyone thinks it is. Nearly everything we know has been learned through trial and error and a lot of best guesses by experienced people who basically have to balance odds.
     
  2. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    What percentage of all health care dollars goes to insuring the HC establishment from lawsuits?

    Do you know?

    And if you do not know, then how can you possible be convinced that this is really the problem without having any metrics to measure it against?

    Incidently I cannot FIND that number.

    Rather odd, given that so many people assume that the cost of medical malpracitce insurance is such a problem that it is driving up the cost of medicine so badly.

    so here's my question...see if you can find the answer:

    Of the 18% of the GDP that is currently spend on HC, what percentage of the 18% is going to insuring practicioners against medical malpractive?

    Until you can give us that anwer, your complaints are based on nothing but your impression that it's too high, agreed?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009
  3. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    I saw the numbers on this and they are meaningless. Cbi0090 is a tool who believes the hooey, there are lots out there. Some say education is failing, if education were evaluated on the basis of corporate tools and their repeating of nonsense then that education is a supreme success.

    This quote is still accurate but substitute corporate think tank for state.

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister
     
  4. cbi0090
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    cbi0090 Member

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    Next time you visit your doctor ask him or her what they pay in medical insurance, if they're willing. Most don't like to divulge it but if you know them well enough they might. It's a simple number that you don't need to look around the internet for. Now figure out how many patients he needs to see to pay for that. Notice how large his staff is and figure a big portion of their costs into the equation because most of what they do is keep records that are CYA in large part, not just bookkeeping. If they send you off for tests, figure how many really aren't needed but instead, again, are just CYA.
    We're paying for a perceived risk that is very high and the more patients the doctor sees the more their risk goes up, while enforced pricing from HMO's, Medicare, and now a social medical system pushes prices down which means they have to see more patients pushing risk even further up meaning they have to see more patients, and so on and so on. As long as the risk is wide open there is no happy median. The only way to achieve one is to cap the risk.
    It's just plain simple mathematics and has nothing to do with politics, but it has, of course, gotten politicized because it gets votes one way or the other.
     
  5. brownlou
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    brownlou Member

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    Medical malpractice lawsuits are capped at $200,000. in California. When a Cali doctor complains about malpractice insurance, they are full of shit. I wonder what other states have caps too.
     
  6. cbi0090
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    cbi0090 Member

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    I just want to add something more. I had the above conversation with my dermotologist whom I've gotten to know quite well. Now I'm a structural engineer and I have to carry professional liability, E & O, ect. for my business and am very familiar with standards of practice that anyone doing engineering must follow to the letter or you just won't be able to get insurance. You wouldn't believe the calculations and quality controls that are necessary and must be documented for things that common sense would tell you works. What should be a a simple decision or selection instead becomes many manhours of effort.
    When I asked the doctor about whether his field had similar restrictions and standards that he had to follow, he laughed and was almost relieved to talk to someone who "got it." I found out that what I thought was a burdensome CYA waste of money and effort in my field, turned out to be a joke compared to what he has to go through.
    At least for me, I'm dealing with materials of known or documented assumed properties and natural functions that have been well established in science both theoretical and applied. My doctor, on the other hand, has none of these advantages. Everything they know is based on observation and trial and error, no one person walking in the door is the same, probability and educated guesses play and big part in diagnosis and medications. Medical practice is more an art than a science.
    His insurance bill is more than I make in a year and that doesn't even include all the other costs I mentioned above which he guesses triples or quadruples the amount.
    My parents used to take me and siblings to the doctor and pay for the cost out of their pockets or over a short period of time. That was just 50 years ago.
     
  7. Political Junky
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    Political Junky Gold Member

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    Actually, that cost from lawsuits constitutes a small portion of the overall cost of health care. I'll look for the figures.
     
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  8. code1211
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    code1211 Senior Member

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    Is there malpractice mayhem in countries with nationalized healthcare? In Canada, where the health care system is now about bankrupt, one can sue.

    I too don't know what the cost of this insurance is in the USA. I do know that there are tests that are performed to avoid the possibility of being sued. "Practicing defensive medicine" is the phrase here. Since insurance is paying for it, nobody objects. In a system where, like Canada, insurance costs are unnaffected by malpractice suits and resources are limited by funding, would these tests be perfromed? Would they be timely? Would the truly ill be treated on the same waiting list as the hypocondriacs?

    I have asked the question before, if there was car purchasing insurance that worked like health care purchasing insurance and and everyone could get a Bentley every time they needed a car, how many people would get the cheaper model? This system of purchasing would cause a rise in the price of cars. It has no doubt done the same in medicine.

    There is a cap on damages for malpractice in Canada of 100K. It's very difficult to prove and the low settlement award potential severely limits the number of claims submitted for trial. What lawyer wants 30% of nothing after costs?

    PointofLaw.com | PointOfLaw Forum: Canada, where all are equal but some are more equal than others
    Medical Malpractice Litigation - Canadian Perspective, The Role of the Medical Expert
     
  9. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    That is an outrageous statement and it is FALSE... a minimum of 8 years of intense science based schooling just to be a practitioner...no Art school I know...

    From your own experience, you should be a BIG advocate of the President's investment in computerized medical records to reduce costs and improve quality. Then, to create a data base of best practices; to give doctors tools to make the best treatment decisions for their patients by providing objective information on the relative benefits of treatments.

    You mention the word "insurance", yet you call patients that have their lives ruined by medical errors or neglect "parasites" instead of insurance corporations that promote personnel that find a way to DENY coverage...do you THINK those same insurance corporations "might" be milking doctors too?

    Please provide a list of any structure you were involved in engineering...I will make avoiding them an "art form"...LOL
     
  10. Nik
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    Nik Senior Member

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    Except that the county with the most expensive healthcare costs in the nation have capped medical malpractice lawsuits.

    Whoops. There goes that theory.
     

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