No frivolous gun control laws would have stopped this...

[Ray From Cleveland]

Um, no, I'm the one who points out that countries that don't let any crazy asshole own a gun usually don't have this problem. Some of them aren't even inhabited by white people. (Namely Japan.)

Culture.

Japan also has a far higher rate of suicide. What do you suppose is the cause of that? Inability to buy guns?

He knows that gun control isn't the reason they have low gun crime in Japan, he has been shown over and over it is Japanese Culture that keeps all crime low in Japan.

Also.....long prison sentences for gun criminals.....they actually lock up their gun criminals in Japan, unlike here where joe's democrats let repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison over and over again....

On Japan.....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

Long prison sentences are the only way to stop criminals who use guns for crime...

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

And while our US prisoners are working out in weight rooms, playing pool in the pool room, or outside in the football field, here is the way their prisoners are treated:

Yes.....now I will steal this for future use.....thanks...

No problem. Look forward to you posting it.

 

[Pop23]

We’ve had crazy people from the beginning of time. We’ve had guns for several hundred years. We’ve had semi autos for over a century. We’ve had SSRI antidepressants for 30.

Hmmmmmm, what changed Joe?

Semi-automatics were easily obtainable by civilians (They were limited to military use) and the gun industry flooded our streets with them to increase sales.

That's what changed

ed.

But semi auto rifles are rarely used.

So you fail.

What changed in the past 30 years is our use of psychotropic drugs on our children

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Um, no, I'm the one who points out that countries that don't let any crazy asshole own a gun usually don't have this problem. Some of them aren't even inhabited by white people. (Namely Japan.)

Culture.

Japan also has a far higher rate of suicide. What do you suppose is the cause of that? Inability to buy guns?

He knows that gun control isn't the reason they have low gun crime in Japan, he has been shown over and over it is Japanese Culture that keeps all crime low in Japan.

Also.....long prison sentences for gun criminals.....they actually lock up their gun criminals in Japan, unlike here where joe's democrats let repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison over and over again....

On Japan.....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

Long prison sentences are the only way to stop criminals who use guns for crime...

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

And while our US prisoners are working out in weight rooms, playing pool in the pool room, or outside in the football field, here is the way their prisoners are treated:

Yes......joe and the other morons don't understand a difference in culture and how it actually effects criminal behavior...

Joe said it's the guns. Well........we have plenty of Japanese Americans in this country with access to guns. Why is it we've never seen a Japanese mass murderer before? Why is it we never see a murderer by people of Japanese descent? Very few if any if my memory serves me right.

 

[JoeB131]

He knows that gun control isn't the reason they have low gun crime in Japan, he has been shown over and over it is Japanese Culture that keeps all crime low in Japan.

The Japanese consume more violent video games than we do, and they've been locked into a recession since the 1990's.

Yet... no guns, no crime.

lso.....long prison sentences for gun criminals.....they actually lock up their gun criminals in Japan, unlike here where joe's democrats let repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison over and over again....

On Japan.....

Guy, the Japanese only lock up 69,000 people out of a population of 110 Million.

We lock up 2 million people out of a population of 310 million.

If we are letting people out, it's because the prisons we have are bursting at the seems

 

[JoeB131]

But semi auto rifles are rarely used.

So you fail.

What changed in the past 30 years is our use of psychotropic drugs on our children

Actually, what changed in the last 30 years is that the courts ruled that crazy people can't be locked up unless they are an "imminent" threat. So back when I was a young man, you took all the crazies and retards and put them in institutions and never had to deal with them.

Then some liberal goo-goos decided that was mean because they saw "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest". And Conservatives decided it was a waste of money to spend funds on outpatient programs because, hey, we have to give tax breaks to rich people.

I remember it very well, that around 1979, 1980, we had a whole bunch of homeless show up along 63rd Street because they got thrown out of their mental hospitals.

So you had the combination of trying to mainstream the crazy along with a flood of guns the NRA put on our streets. And we have exactly the result most people thought we'd have.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But semi auto rifles are rarely used.

So you fail.

What changed in the past 30 years is our use of psychotropic drugs on our children

Actually, what changed in the last 30 years is that the courts ruled that crazy people can't be locked up unless they are an "imminent" threat. So back when I was a young man, you took all the crazies and retards and put them in institutions and never had to deal with them.

Then some liberal goo-goos decided that was mean because they saw "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest". And Conservatives decided it was a waste of money to spend funds on outpatient programs because, hey, we have to give tax breaks to rich people.

I remember it very well, that around 1979, 1980, we had a whole bunch of homeless show up along 63rd Street because they got thrown out of their mental hospitals.

So you had the combination of trying to mainstream the crazy along with a flood of guns the NRA put on our streets. And we have exactly the result most people thought we'd have.

Joe, I think this post of yours is about as close as you and I will ever get to sharing an opinion.

What happened between the 70's and 80's had nothing to do with the rich. What happened was Geraldo had his own weekly prime time television show. Back then, there was no cable or satellite, so everybody watched the big three and his show was a hit.

He ran a series of what happened to people once committed. He showed the places they went to and called them crime less prisons. Because of lack of funding, those people were often mistreated and badly fed. The series gained so much power and support that the institutions were forced to unlock the doors and let the inmates roam free.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Japanese consume more violent video games than we do, and they've been locked into a recession since the 1990's.

Yet... no guns, no crime.

You keep bringing that up, but all it proves is that the theory of video games and rap songs causing people to become violent is questionable.

Guy, the Japanese only lock up 69,000 people out of a population of 110 Million.

We lock up 2 million people out of a population of 310 million.

If we are letting people out, it's because the prisons we have are bursting at the seems

Their culture and race are much less violent than some of ours. You could give half of their population guns and it wouldn't make a difference except perhaps with suicides.

 

[JoeB131]

You keep bringing that up, but all it proves is that the theory of video games and rap songs causing people to become violent is questionable.

Oh, I agree... it is.

The root cause here is that easy access to a gun makes that one bad day worse for everyone.

 

[JoeB131]

Their culture and race are much less violent than some of ours. You could give half of their population guns and it wouldn't make a difference except perhaps with suicides.

Yet Canada has very few guns,pretty much the same culture we have, and they don't have all that many shootings, either.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Their culture and race are much less violent than some of ours. You could give half of their population guns and it wouldn't make a difference except perhaps with suicides.

Yet Canada has very few guns,pretty much the same culture we have, and they don't have all that many shootings, either.

That's because they don't have many people of color living there.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You keep bringing that up, but all it proves is that the theory of video games and rap songs causing people to become violent is questionable.

Oh, I agree... it is.

The root cause here is that easy access to a gun makes that one bad day worse for everyone.

Pop already addressed that point by bringing up we were always a country of guns. People owned guns when I was a kid and people own guns today. And like the Japanese, we had very violent shows on televisions that we as children watched. Yet none of us ever went out and killed a bunch of kids in school or anywhere else.

But our culture is different today. We used to be a country of God fearing people. We believed that you pay for your wrongdoings on this earth after you leave. Thanks to liberalism, many believe that once you die, the only place you go is into the ground, and all the suffering you caused is not your problem.

 

[JoeB131]

That's because they don't have many people of color living there.

Yeah, Ray brought the Racism again...

Oh, half the murders in this country are committed by white people... but never mind.

 

[JoeB131]

Pop already addressed that point by bringing up we were always a country of guns.

But the problem is, we weren't. in 1950, there were less than 40 million privately owned guns,most of them hunting rifles. Today, we have 347 Million guns.

And like the Japanese, we had very violent shows on televisions that we as children watched. Yet none of us ever went out and killed a bunch of kids in school or anywhere else.

Um... no, not really. In the 1960's, Frankenstein was considered "Scary". Nothing compared to Freddy and Jason, who are pretty fucking graphic.

But our culture is different today. We used to be a country of God fearing people. We believed that you pay for your wrongdoings on this earth after you leave. Thanks to liberalism, many believe that once you die, the only place you go is into the ground, and all the suffering you caused is not your problem.

Uh, guy, we are just religious now as we were 50 years ago.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But the problem is, we weren't. in 1950, there were less than 40 million privately owned guns,most of them hunting rifles. Today, we have 347 Million guns.

Our population in 1950 was 150 million; less than half of what we have today. And I don't know where you got the 40 million guns from since there was no way to track that kind of thing back then. Kids used to bring guns to school for show and tell. We had two kids in our class that brought in ammunition. Some kids had their own gun for hunting that the parents purchased, yet nobody ever thought about taking it out of the house yet alone use it.

Um... no, not really. In the 1960's, Frankenstein was considered "Scary". Nothing compared to Freddy and Jason, who are pretty fucking graphic.

Maybe so, but violence is violence. Gun smoke was a TV series that not only had fist fights and shootouts, but ran for 30 years. Bonanza the same thing. The three stooges often did comedy routines hitting each other over the head with hammers and putting their heads in bench vices. Even Batman always ended the show with a fist fights and yes, using deadly weapons to hit the criminals with. Then there were the detective shows and police shows.

It didn't effect any of us; not that there weren't violent kids. Some kids just like to fight more than others, but nobody got killed.

Uh, guy, we are just religious now as we were 50 years ago.

Far from it. Churches and parishes close up all the time, particularly in the largest religion which is Catholic. Years ago you couldn't even purchase alcohol on Sunday. It was an official day of rest and nobody did anything. Most stores were even closed.

I don't know how familiar you are with religion, but we in the Catholic society had a ritual called Stations Of The Cross. When I was a kid, they closed down main streets for the ritual and no cars allowed on the street. Nobody does anything like that today. Every Sunday neighbors would be talking outside just before the families went to church. Most everybody did that. You don't see that today.

You yourself made the claim repeatedly that you don't believe in God; you're not alone.

Atheism to Defeat Religion By 2038 | HuffPost

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's because they don't have many people of color living there.

Yeah, Ray brought the Racism again...

Oh, half the murders in this country are committed by white people... but never mind.

White people are seven times the size in population of people of color. Yet you are correct, they are pretty much even overall, but not per capita. You are eight times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white in the US.

You call it racism, and I call it statistics.

 

[JoeB131]

Far from it. Churches and parishes close up all the time, particularly in the largest religion which is Catholic. Years ago you couldn't even purchase alcohol on Sunday. It was an official day of rest and nobody did anything. Most stores were even closed.

Uh, the reason why Catholic Churches are closing isn't because people have suddenly embraced reason and science. If only it were. The reason they are closing is because people are moving down to that Evangelical Church down the street. Now with extra Fire and Brimstone! Oh, yeah, and the Catholic Priests can't keep their hands off their kids and have to close down churches to pay off the victims of guys they KNEW were pedophiles.

I don't know how familiar you are with religion, but we in the Catholic society had a ritual called Stations Of The Cross. When I was a kid, they closed down main streets for the ritual and no cars allowed on the street. Nobody does anything like that today. Every Sunday neighbors would be talking outside just before the families went to church. Most everybody did that. You don't see that today.

Uh, I was brought up Catholic. It's why I hate religion with such a burning passion. The reason why you don't see people in Church on Sunday is way too many of us have to work second jobs to make the One Percenters richer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Far from it. Churches and parishes close up all the time, particularly in the largest religion which is Catholic. Years ago you couldn't even purchase alcohol on Sunday. It was an official day of rest and nobody did anything. Most stores were even closed.

Uh, the reason why Catholic Churches are closing isn't because people have suddenly embraced reason and science. If only it were. The reason they are closing is because people are moving down to that Evangelical Church down the street. Now with extra Fire and Brimstone! Oh, yeah, and the Catholic Priests can't keep their hands off their kids and have to close down churches to pay off the victims of guys they KNEW were pedophiles.

I don't know how familiar you are with religion, but we in the Catholic society had a ritual called Stations Of The Cross. When I was a kid, they closed down main streets for the ritual and no cars allowed on the street. Nobody does anything like that today. Every Sunday neighbors would be talking outside just before the families went to church. Most everybody did that. You don't see that today.

Uh, I was brought up Catholic. It's why I hate religion with such a burning passion. The reason why you don't see people in Church on Sunday is way too many of us have to work second jobs to make the One Percenters richer.

Really? I don't know anybody that has to work on Sunday. They are mowing their lawns, laying on the patio, or boxed up inside the house with their internet, video games and Netflix.

 

[JoeB131]

Really? I don't know anybody that has to work on Sunday. They are mowing their lawns, laying on the patio, or boxed up inside the house with their internet, video games and Netflix.

In your city, most people don't have jobs... so there's that.

But all those other activities sound like a lot more fun than going to church.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Really? I don't know anybody that has to work on Sunday. They are mowing their lawns, laying on the patio, or boxed up inside the house with their internet, video games and Netflix.

In your city, most people don't have jobs... so there's that.

But all those other activities sound like a lot more fun than going to church.

I never said they didn't. I don't go to church myself. But the point is we are less religious today than years ago. That was the only point I was making.

 

[JoeB131]

I never said they didn't. I don't go to church myself. But the point is we are less religious today than years ago. That was the only point I was making.

Oh, I'm sorry, were you making a point. I thought you were sputtering to make any excuse for mass shootings than the fact shooters can get guns.