New York Times publishes Officer Darren Wilson’s account of the Michael Brown shooting

[ScarletRage]

At some point, Brown was withdrawing and no longer attacking Wilson. The ''self-defense'' justification ended at that point. If Wilson then followed Brown and shot him four more times in a fit of rage, then he committed a homicide --- either Murder 2 [premeditation was nullified by rage] or Voluntary Manslaughter [rage was reasonably provoked by Brown's assault]. Brown was not near the police car when Wilson killed him. This case presents a classic bar examination question.

Here is my reply on another thread.

Self defense isn't the issue fool. A police officer in MO can shoot a fleeing or resisting felon. The statute has been posted SEVERAL times.

Wrong. A police officer can only use deadly force if such force is necessary to make the arrest. If deadly force is not necessary to arrest him, the statute does not apply.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

At some point, Brown was withdrawing and no longer attacking Wilson. The ''self-defense'' justification ended at that point. If Wilson then followed Brown and shot him four more times in a fit of rage, then he committed a homicide --- either Murder 2 [premeditation was nullified by rage] or Voluntary Manslaughter [rage was reasonably provoked by Brown's assault]. Brown was not near the police car when Wilson killed him. This case presents a classic bar examination question.

Here is my reply on another thread.

Self defense isn't the issue fool. A police officer in MO can shoot a fleeing or resisting felon. The statute has been posted SEVERAL times.

Wrong. A police officer can only use deadly force if such force is necessary to make the arrest. If deadly force is not necessary to arrest him, the statute does not apply.

What the fuck? I said NOTHING that contradicts what you just wrote.

 

[Roadrunner]

I just don't get that idiotic mentality.

All they see is a white man shooting a black man and, oh my God, it must be racism.

No, stupid, things aren't so cut-and-dried. Wait for the evidence. Wait for the jury. Don't act like a fool.

Same people see black guys do drivebys on innocents, and no howl of outrage, it's just "da thug life".

 

[JoeB131]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

 

[Roadrunner]

In our system of law, the police don't get to kill a man and say well he desrved it even though I had no reason to suspect that at the time.

He deserved it for fighting with Wilson. Not for robbing a store, or jaywalking.

No one deserves to die. Wilson was unlikely to kill him with his bare hands.

If this was the simple truth, having it take this long to get out makes people suspicious.

People kill people with bare hands regularly.

What was Wilson supposed to do, let the big bastard choke him to the point of passing out before he shot him.
Don't want to get shot; keep your thieving hands off of cops.

 

[Roadrunner]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

Takes a lot of shots to drop a hopped up 350lb thug.

 

[asaratis]

Good morning, everyone. Just drank a nice big mug of good coffee, and am in the mood to flex my grapefruit. Or is it an orange? Nevermind.

On the Michael Brown case, it's sort of like the Trayvon Martin case. It feels, at least to me, as if there are professional racial agitators who seek out instances where a white person shoots/kills a black person, and calls it racism, even if it may not be the case. Now granted, it's true there are instances of police violence, some of which likely are covered up or not reported. I don't know the current and exact statistics, or where to find them, but I reckon it's true that there are bad police officers in the force, who do bad things to people who don't deserve it.

That said, there's a problem within the black community, and you shouldn't have to be black in order to speak your mind, or wait and hope for a level-headed black man to start speaking up on the matter. Drawing from one of my favorite sources, Adam Carolla, it's true that black people need to focus more on the family. Family is so damned important. If you're a young black man, and you go out and have sex with multiple young black women, not using protection and getting them pregnant... and then not being a man and caring for them... you are a problem. Don't have children unless you can afford it. Hell, I'm 26. I'm waiting with love and marriage until I'm both financially and emotionally ready. Children can be vexing. If you can't afford it, don't take that risk. Being a father is a massive responsibility. If you can't wait until marriage, at least use protection. It's better than bringing a young child into the world and then not being there to raise him or her above your shoulders and into a better than your own.

There's this thug mentality I absolutely abhor. A lot of young black teens listen to that crappy, bad rap music. More than some non-black teens and young adults listen to it, too. In fact, I live with a young teen who could be described as a "wigger," who smokes marijuana and dabs, and talks with a ghetto dialect. I hear his music every so often. Ever listen to it? Complete and utter disrespect towards women. I f****** hate it. Those rappers treat women like sex toys or pieces of meat, or just objects whose only purpose is to treat carnally. I hate it. I HATE it. There's no respect when it comes to that garbage music. And a lot of those rappers and thugs sound so Goddamned stupid, too. These songs and these lyrics are filling the minds of innocent young black boys and girls, and other young kids. I hate it. It corrupts the soul. Why not have them listen to some good music, instead? Feel-good, innocent music?? Something that stirs a positive emotional reaction, or something innocent like that? Something instrumental and uplifting? Not this crap music mouthing off about how you want to f*** those c**** and kill them hos. I HATE it. Ugh. Sorry, caffeine makes me passionate.

Too many children without fathers and enough resources. There needs to be a focus on the family. BE THERE. Love your babies. Love your wife. Take care of her heart as you would your own. Treat her body with respect as you would your own. Always be there to instill love and values and respect for others in your children. Teach them skills, and how to garden, and engrave in them a true love for knowledge and wisdom. I want to have children of my own, but also adopt children from Africa and other parts of the world. I want to life them all above my shoulders and give them the future I never had. An emphasis must be put on family, education, and love. Keep them away from alcohol. Shun and abhor the illegal drugs, and those who peddle them. Have them enjoy nature with you, go out and help others, donate your time and theirs to help people. Keep those idle hands busy. Young teens, black and white, would be better off being sent to care for the elderly, or helping families with their business, or donating time to maintain the community, or any other useful and wholesome thing that builds character. We need to draw upon the wisdom of the example set in Leave it to Beaver, etc. Politics is sort of like a pendulum. It's swinging very hard to the Left, but, in time, it may swing back to the Right. I guess I mean more like swinging from liberal to conservative, etc. Few people have respect nowadays. I'm just sick of it.

These young black men and women need to give a damn about themselves. Discard the unhelpful ghetto dialect. Seriously. You don't have to talk that way in order to be black. One of my colleagues is a black, and a lawyer, and far more articulate than I am. I have a s***-ton of respect for him, and am routinely coming to him for guidance and advice. Honestly, he's far more passionate on this issue than I am, and much of what I have brought to this discussion comes from his wisdom and experience. It shouldn't be about skin color. We should be colorblind! It should all deal with the content of your character. Wearing your pants down below your crack, or getting involved in a gang, or disrespecting your elders will NOT do you any good in life. Same with getting tatted up and getting addicted to bad substances. People of all skin colors would do well to become straight-edge. Not only that, but giving a damn about one's self, AND others, while investing in yourself and being with your money. There are a lot of bad influences in the black community, but there are things that can be done to help. Don't do drugs, care about yourself and others, have respect, love your spouse and little ones, work to improve yourself, develop prudent financial skills... There are so many things you can do to make a better future.

White people should make more of an effort to establish strong bonds with black people, and black people should work to establish strong bonds with white people. I have seen many black people who have been influenced in a good way, who are now lawyers, nurses, teachers, and business owners. Homeschooling, for one, is a damned good thing to do provided that you keep your child socializing with other good children. If you focus on the family, your family, all of you will benefit. I don't care about your skin color. I care about who you are, what your character is, and how you treat yourself and others. Your soul, I guess you can call it. That is what I am bound to. That is the main thing I consider. An innocent soul is like a blank canvas, just waiting to be etched in with bad good and bad influences. You need to mold that young child as you would a lump of clay, and instill in it all your love, attention, and guidance. We need more parents who are willing to sacrifice parts of themselves in order to make these good things happen.

Oh, get off it, Wake ! You expect me to believe you wrote that over coffee in the morning?

I know you spent all night writin' that!

 

[asaratis]

In our system of law, the police don't get to kill a man and say well he desrved it even though I had no reason to suspect that at the time.

He deserved it for fighting with Wilson. Not for robbing a store, or jaywalking.

No one deserves to die. Wilson was unlikely to kill him with his bare hands.

If this was the simple truth, having it take this long to get out makes people suspicious.

People kill people with bare hands regularly.

What was Wilson supposed to do, let the big bastard choke him to the point of passing out before he shot him.
Don't want to get shot; keep your thieving hands off of cops.

I know a guy that can kill you with either of his thumbs.

 

[Roadrunner]

Y

In our system of law, the police don't get to kill a man and say well he desrved it even though I had no reason to suspect that at the time.

He deserved it for fighting with Wilson. Not for robbing a store, or jaywalking.

No one deserves to die. Wilson was unlikely to kill him with his bare hands.

If this was the simple truth, having it take this long to get out makes people suspicious.

People kill people with bare hands regularly.

What was Wilson supposed to do, let the big bastard choke him to the point of passing out before he shot him.
Don't want to get shot; keep your thieving hands off of cops.

I know a guy that can kill you with either of his thumbs.

You've met my brother?????

 

[Wake]

I drank a pot of very strong coffee. Strong enough to put fur on you. With winter coming, I need it.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Why was there no backup? Around here, if there's any sort of problem two more cars show up in no time.

I keep asking myself, what if it had been a white 18-year-old? Not just any white 18-year-old, but trashy and with a juvie record, one known to be a troublemaker?

It's extremely unlikely that a white kid would have been fatally shot.

There's a presumption that dark skin automatically proves criminal intent even with seriously injuries.

Wake - if I ever need home care I won't seek your services. Being black is my favorite time of day. You're therefore not reliable.

Here you go Grandma. This young white teen was shot by a black or what is called a non-white officer, just about the same time Brown was. Difference is, Dillon was white and unarmed, the officer who shot and killed him was non-white.



Never touched the cop the shooting was legally justified. He did not have a weapon either.

Body cam helps justify fatal South Salt Lake police shooting KSL.com

Thanks.

I was actually referring to a white-on-white shooting though.

It is a fact that criminality is associated with skin color far more than with criminal activity, unfortunately.

Hopefully body cams for all will level the playing field racially, and also help get rid of overzealous, incompetent, or otherwise unqualified police officers.

I did not realize you were looking for white on white cop shootings. Who cares if the cop was a "White Hispanic" cop or Black cop shooting an unarmed kid? in the past decade twice as many whites have been killed by cops than blacks and we rarely hear about those whites killed or there is little outrage just like the killing above.

I happen to agree with you, criminality is associated with skin color- there is a bigger picture out there and many issues to include poverty which keeps a vicious cycle continuing for those who are minorities. But this does not mean there are not cases which are questionable which seem to get glazed over because the person killed was not black.

Talk show host Police kill more whites than blacks PunditFact

Nobody Knows How Many Americans The Police Kill Each Year FiveThirtyEight

 

[CaféAuLait]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

You only have part of his version released by the Civil rights group.

 

[JoeB131]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

Takes a lot of shots to drop a hopped up 350lb thug.

If he weighed 350 lbs, I doubt he'd be very nimble.

 

[JoeB131]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

You only have part of his version released by the Civil rights group.

That and the forensic evidence which found no Gun Shot residue on Brown's body.

 

[asaratis]

After reading some 139 posts in this thread, I conclude that there is too much speculation coming from people who were not on the scene and have no logical basis for their interpretations of what actually happened other than pure conjecture.

Wait until ALL the evidence has been presented and examined before you come to the likely well founded conclusion that the shooting and killing of Michael Brown was justified.

This sounds like you have already formed an opinion. I do agree we need to wait to form an opinion.

However, the robbery video and other such information is irrelevant. What matters is what Officer Wilson knew.

Of course I have formed an opinion....based on hearsay, newscasts, history and my understanding of human nature. However, not having read the official, soon-to-be-available-at-a-bookstore-near-you court documents concerning the findings of the grand jury, I would not say that I am correct. That precipitated my use of the word "likely".

 

[CaféAuLait]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

Takes a lot of shots to drop a hopped up 350lb thug.

If he weighed 350 lbs, I doubt he'd be very nimble.

He was 6' 4" tall and over 300 pounds. Football players of the same size are nimble, aren't they?

 

[CaféAuLait]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

You only have part of his version released by the Civil rights group.

That and the forensic evidence which found no Gun Shot residue on Brown's body.

Right, AND they said they were not given his clothes and or hat to test for gunshot residue- likely where it would be found- according to Baden's assistant. We have NO clue what the other two ( feds and state) autopsies found, do we? Not to mention look up what happens when three autopsies are done, evidence is degraded .

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

again, his version doesn't account for how the kid got SIX bullet holes in him.

Takes a lot of shots to drop a hopped up 350lb thug.

If he weighed 350 lbs, I doubt he'd be very nimble.

nimble has nothing to do with it. When the body receives a trauma like being shot, it produces MASSIVE amounts of adrenaline to try to cope. That adrenaline can allow a person to continue on after being shot up until the system is finally overwhelmed.

 

[CaféAuLait]

I drank a pot of very strong coffee. Strong enough to put fur on you. With winter coming, I need it.

Yeti fascination this week, eh, Wake?

 

[CaféAuLait]

Another interesting thing which I don't recall hearing from any witness or the police Chief's brief account:

"It was fired twice in the car, according to forensics tests performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html

Well, the witness Johnson, said the gun was only fired ONCE in the car. One more thing to prove Johnson is lying IMO, especially given his BS story of how the cop fired and the "cop was shocked" and just sat there INSIDE of his cop car while Brown ran and Johnson hid, but Brown RAN, and somehow the cop was able to get out of the car and supposedly WALK SLOWLY and then shoot Brown leaving him this close ( picture at 1st link) to the cops car after Brown had been running for 2-3 minutes while the cop sat "shocked" inside of his cop car. AND he said Brown was never inside of the car. Even if we pretend he meant 2-3 seconds, Brown would have been further away than 10 feet from the cops car.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/u...meline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html?_r=0

Johnson interview: Cop sat inside of car "shocked" for 2-3 minutes, start video at 8 minutes.