New light on the nature of Apollo's light

[Days]

They were definitely up in low earth orbit and still working to make the moon movie a go. The opening post is pointing at NASA's dosimeters that accompanied the men and the craft on every mission. NASA's own record for REM dosage for each mission came in at a fraction of one for the shorter missions and just over one for the longer missions. When you come to understand what sun spots are and how active they are during solar maximum and how much high energy radiation they kick out (the sun's natural ions are ten to 1000 times as potent as the radiation we create on earth) it becomes obvious that the only place Apollo missions could have flown was low earth orbit. Those missions were flown when the space beyond low earth orbit was flooded with hundreds of REM, and yet they all came back with a single REM. case closed. Meanwhile, there's lots of other evidence that Apollo missions were low earth orbit, but the radiation factor is still not solved today. They go right on lying about it and pretending that the radiation threat is minimal, when what we are learning is it goes way beyond what they thought it was in the 1960's and 1970's.

 

[Days]

konradv, did you even read the top post? It was about radiation. No one is bouncing laser light off three foot mirrors. They bounce it off the moon surface. How exactly would it be possible to find those mirrors from earth when they can't even take a picture of them from 50 miles up with the LRO? Anyway, those clueless mythbusters just need to read the top post and learn how many hundreds of REM in radiation fills the solar system during solar maximum and then do a little testing on Kodak sensitive film; they would discover that the film would have been totally destroyed by radiation 30 minutes into the trip to the moon. The film would never have survived the first belt of the Van Allen belts.

 

[Days]

I'd settle for reading the top post and getting the point. Apollo missions all returned with a single REM of radiation... so they all flew in low earth orbit. end of story.

 

[DaveB]

They were definitely up in low earth orbit and still working to make the moon movie a go. The opening post is pointing at NASA's dosimeters that accompanied the men and the craft on every mission. NASA's own record for REM dosage for each mission came in at a fraction of one for the shorter missions and just over one for the longer missions. When you come to understand what sun spots are and how active they are during solar maximum and how much high energy radiation they kick out (the sun's natural ions are ten to 1000 times as potent as the radiation we create on earth) it becomes obvious that the only place Apollo missions could have flown was low earth orbit. Those missions were flown when the space beyond low earth orbit was flooded with hundreds of REM, and yet they all came back with a single REM. case closed. Meanwhile, there's lots of other evidence that Apollo missions were low earth orbit, but the radiation factor is still not solved today. They go right on lying about it and pretending that the radiation threat is minimal, when what we are learning is it goes way beyond what they thought it was in the 1960's and 1970's.

Science isn't your thing is it? You ignored my reply on your inept observations about electromagnetic radiation - specifically heat. Now you are compounding it with even more bizarre claims about radiation.

Firstly you have offered nothing but unsubstantiated opinion in your post, you point to low dosage absorbed, but ignore the shielding. You offer no attenuation figures or why. You offer no citations to back up your claim that space would be flooded with radiation. Finally, you demonstrate that you know nothing about the subject by using the term "flooded with hundreds of REM" to describe space beyond LEO. REM is a term specifically used in human tissue absorbtion of ionising radiation.

The Van Allen belts have very strong areas of ionised particles, so this is why Apollo took an elliptical orbit that carried it around the outer weaker areas.

 

[DaveB]

I'd settle for reading the top post and getting the point. Apollo missions all returned with a single REM of radiation... so they all flew in low earth orbit. end of story.

Bare assertion. The dosimeters measured in RADS and you have provided nothing to suggest the dosimeters would have received anything more than they did.

How do you think they hid in Low Earth Orbit with thousands of amateur astronomers looking up? You don't think any number of them would have noticed a new object moving across the sky! The radio signals came from two sources, the surface of the Moon and the orbiting C/SM. Relaying from LEO through unmanned probes or any other made up crap would result in delays to the dialogue, and would need constant switching through numerous satellites. The interaction between ground control and the astronauts was heard by the whole room in real time, comprising of a large number of people just on one mission.

Your claim is nonsense and provably so.

 

[DaveB]

No one is bouncing laser light off three foot mirrors. They bounce it off the moon surface.

No. They bounce it off corner cube reflectors! The difference between a signal from the surface and a return from the reflectors is quite significant.

How exactly would it be possible to find those mirrors from earth when they can't even take a picture of them from 50 miles up with the LRO?

The laser fired at the target expands as it travels. It covers a very large area by the time it reaches the Moon.

Anyway, those clueless mythbusters just need to read the top post and learn how many hundreds of REM in radiation fills the solar system during solar maximum and then do a little testing on Kodak sensitive film; they would discover that the film would have been totally destroyed by radiation 30 minutes into the trip to the moon. The film would never have survived the first belt of the Van Allen belts.

Somebody has told you some nonsense and you've bought it hook line and sinker. Film works just fine in space, unless you think all the pictures of Earth taken, are fakes

 

[Days]

you are a total idiot... that's why I ignored you.

I'm trying not to waste too much of the little time I have left on the planet answering idiots like you.

1) What are sun spots?

2) What is solar maximum?

3) What are energetic particles?

Google those ideas, learn something, God, anything, before you go shooting your mouth off and spitting your total ignorance at someone who does know what these things are.

answers:

1) sun spots are nuclear fission chain reaction explosion that happen at specific latitudes on the surface of the sun. Normal size of sun spots range from as large as the planet Jupiter down to the size of the entire earth... sun spots spit out incredible volumes of radiation (poisoning). Magnetic imbalances within the storms result in solar flares and sometimes large Coronal Mass Ejections. The flares and CMEs can pack tens to hundreds of REM in a single second, as per dosage at the earth orbit. Meanwhile, the sun spots (surface storms) are kicking out non-stop radiation (poisoning), which is why the space beyond the protection of the earth's magnetosphere and atmosphere are filled with their radiation poisoning.

2) The sun has an eleven year cycle during which it builds up in activity for 3-4 years, peaks for 1-2 years, declines in activity 3-4 years, then goes into a lull for a couple of years, then starts building again. Solar maximum is the period of time when the sun is most active. Guess what it is active with? sun spots.

3) The radiation poisoning kicked out by the surface storms of the sun is carried in two forms: energetic electrons and energetic protons. While we measure electron volt of man made radiation in the tens of thousands, we measure the suns energetic particles in the millions. The suns radiation poisoning is 100 times more potent than the radiation poisoning emitting from the Fukushima Daichi power plant meltdown. So, at solar maximum, which is when Apollo missions flew, the space beyond the protection of the earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere are filled with really very potent radiation poisoning; the Van Allen belts are these same energetic particles captured by the earth's magnetosphere.

the opening post is explaining that any of the Apollo missions would have incurred hundreds of REM of energetic particles which are 100 times as potent as the x-rays you receive in a doctor's office; if only they had truly flown to the moon. All the missions carried dosimeters on the outside of the space craft and on the space suits, which came up the same because there was no shielding provided by 3 inch aluminum, NASA record of radiation doses is a single REM for the entire mission for all the missions; hence, those missions never left low earth orbit. It is terribly, terribly simple. I'm not interested in arguing with idiots who are totally thrilled to rattle off stupid argument with no hope of understanding in sight and no desire to be honest, ever.

 

[DaveB]

you are a total idiot... that's why I ignored you.

Yeah right.

You are the one who says heat cannot radiate without molecules. The Sun duh.

You are the one who refers to REM as a measurement of space radiation when it is the absorbed dose for a human being.

You are the one who thinks that space is somehow flooded with lethal radiation - which mysteriously doesn't burn out all the unmanned craft, satellites, the ISS or kill the occupants.

During solar maximum, the solar wind is actually LESS - I bet you didn't even know that did you. The solar wind is by far the major radiation component received on the Moon and in cislunar space. Very few of the CME events come towards Earth.

Don't call me an idiot - you type crap you pick up from google, only one of us actually understands it, and it ain't you. Now, what have you got? Show me some figures or some citations. Because the "hey look at the big bright Sun Spots" isn't quite cutting it.

 

[daveman]

konradv, did you even read the top post? It was about radiation. No one is bouncing laser light off three foot mirrors. They bounce it off the moon surface. How exactly would it be possible to find those mirrors from earth when they can't even take a picture of them from 50 miles up with the LRO?

Are you aware that laser beams, no matter how tightly collimated, spread out? They don't have to aim for a three-foot mirror. They point it at the neighborhood, and it's a huge spot after traveling a quarter of a million miles.


Ahhh, forget it. You're not interested in facts and logic.

 

[SFC Ollie]

In 1971 the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission's limits on exposure were as they are today. (Standards for Protection Against Radiation. 10 CFR § 20, rev. July 15, 1971.) Without detailed flux data we cannot provide precise dose equivalents for the figures in the table. But we know the spacecraft hulls provided excellent shielding against protons, except for the most high-energy protons and cosmic rays.

The highest exposure is for Apollo 14, and the dose equivalent is about 2.85 rem (28.5 mSv), or about ten times the amount of normal background radiation per year, half the allowed yearly dosage for occupational radiation exposure, or 1/140 the lethal dosage.

In some places on earth, natural radiation supplies up to 28 rems (280 mSv) per year. No adverse effects from this dramatically increased background dose have been observed. We understand from this data that the limits imposed by the law are quite stringent, and may even derive from a sort of radiophobia among the general public. One can receive several times the legal limit of radiation dosage and still have no observable effects. Thus the legal limit is not an accurate measure of what a harmful radiation dosage might be.

Clavius: Environment - here comes the sun

Curious....Just how many Rem does Days think they should have received? I once picked up 2 rem on my dosimeter.... Caused all kinds of commotion....I quit taking breaks in the Hi-pwr radar shed...

 

[Days]

you are a total idiot... that's why I ignored you.

Yeah right.

You are the one who says heat cannot radiate without molecules. The Sun duh.

You are the one who refers to REM as a measurement of space radiation when it is the absorbed dose for a human being.

You are the one who thinks that space is somehow flooded with lethal radiation - which mysteriously doesn't burn out all the unmanned craft, satellites, the ISS or kill the occupants.

During solar maximum, the solar wind is actually LESS - I bet you didn't even know that did you. The solar wind is by far the major radiation component received on the Moon and in cislunar space. Very few of the CME events come towards Earth.

Don't call me an idiot - you type crap you pick up from google, only one of us actually understands it, and it ain't you. Now, what have you got? Show me some figures or some citations. Because the "hey look at the big bright Sun Spots" isn't quite cutting it.

Let's note here that you have no response whatsoever to the plain science of sun spots. When you have no idea how to argue with someone who actually knows the subject matter, just lower yourself to making up blatant Lies and claim that the other guy said it. Now let's look at how badly you twisted my words (where I can even guess WTF you are talking about). This post should suffice to show why I called you a total idiot, which, now considering it in retrospect, was far too kind.


"You are the one who says heat cannot radiate without molecules. The Sun duh."


heat cannot radiate without molecules??? That's not even English, it makes no sense, and I sure didn't say it. What you are saying is that the absence of molecules in space might destroy Apollo's ability to shed heat off its skin through heat exchange, but it doesn't stop the sun from radiating heat into that skin, and it doesn't stop that same heat from convexing into the cabin since the pressurized cabin does have gas molecules. So, while in low earth orbit, flying at 17,000 mph through a thin layer of molecules that does shed heat from the skin, and the obvious shade from the earth reduces the heat buildup from the sun, results in the space ship environment becoming slightly cooled, the cabin was still warmed sufficiently by the heat release from the water coolers and the electronics to stay at "room temperature" ... but this whole equilibrium is lost once Apollo leaves for the moon. Sun radiates heat in the 3 inch aluminum skin and that heat is conveyed into the cabin, and very quickly the whole system builds to 250 degrees. So, yes, the Sun would have baked them alive, I think this is what you are twisting up...

The Apollo missions didn't have radiation cooling. This was the 1960's. You know what they called cabin cooling? Compressed air... and while that makes for a nice environment in low earth orbit, it isn't enough to cool down a 250 degree space craft; which is what you get when you take a 3 inch thick aluminum can into 24 hour sunlight. But they had "shake and bake"; rolling the craft 180 degrees, which supposedly cooled off the underside. and you have sheep who still believe that works. In reality, it doesn't matter how much you roll the craft, it produces no cooling, there's no heat exchange with space, there's no molecules to produce heat exchange. If they had really left low earth orbit, the crafts would have heated to 250 degrees in a matter of 1-3 hours, and since water boils at 220 degrees, they would have died in 1-3 hours from heat strokes... and their carcasses would have cooked while their craft flew outward in a space odyssey.


"You are the one who refers to REM as a measurement of space radiation when it is the absorbed dose for a human being."

It is a measurement of dosage. I think this is what you are twisting up...

major flares had hundreds of REM. (A Rad is the basic measurement of radiation; REM = Rad Equivalent Man... it refers to a dose of radiation resulting in one Rad deposited over the entire surface of a man or instrument or dog or whatever gets the dosage).


"You are the one who thinks that space is somehow flooded with lethal radiation - which mysteriously doesn't burn out all the unmanned craft, satellites, the ISS or kill the occupants."

Nothing mysterious about unmanned craft not being killed by lethal radiation. Radiation is lethal to humans, not metal. Satellites, however, are messed up by the Van Allen belts, that's why they orbit above or below the magnetosphere. (That would be due to the magnetism more than the radiation.) The ISS flies at roughly 250 miles up, where there is no radiation, which is amazingly stupid of you to point out, that's the whole point of the whole thread, but that's why I said you are a total idiot. But that might be unfair, you might be a damned bright ten year old for all I know. Then you've got this statement that radiation would burn out probes... whatever that's about.

What I said was period specific to the sun cycle; earth orbit space is filled with lethal radiation at solar maximum.


"Don't call me an idiot - you type crap you pick up from google, only one of us actually understands it, and it ain't you. Now, what have you got? Show me some figures or some citations. Because the "hey look at the big bright Sun Spots" isn't quite cutting it. "

No, I'm sorry, you are every bit the total idiot I called you and more. What I have posted is common knowledge to the science of the sun. In fact it is so basic, you could consider it the first week of sun studies 101. You want figures or some citations to make it feel official? How about you go teach yourself the science? Then come back here and apologize when you discover how terribly, terribly ignorant your rant was. As for the REM measurements of Apollo missions, NASA has it posted online.

I'm done with you.

 

[Days]

Jesus you are a terrible liar. Bouncing a LASER light off the surface of the moon predates the Apollo missions. All they are doing is timing the return of the light to measure distance. And what I said about finding the block mirrors makes the point that the 2010 LRO orbit at 50 miles up SHOULD HAVE been able to find the Apollo equipment, it was tongue-in-cheek.

Actually a very reputable science project did a very simple test on the Kodak light sensitive film and discovered that 5 REM blurs it and 25 REM destroys it. As anyone who knows anything at all about light sensitive film would expect.

 

[Days]

Hey now, I already have a post in this thread discussing the wave properties of the electromagnetic wave. But if you must know, a LASER compresses light by bouncing it a gazillions times inside a radical chamber before releasing it. It is still an electromagnetic wave, it still spreads out, but it holds together much tighter than light reflected once off a parabolic dish.

And they don't have to aim for a three foot mirror because they bounce the LASER off the surface of the moon, just like they did before the Apollo missions. The process always required a few shots at it, you have to nail just the right angle of moon surface to get a LASER light to bounce back off a ball straight back to earth. Only diff is, now when they get the right angle, they claim they hit the mirrors... which, if you think about it, would be totally useless for this same project.... the moon is a ball orbiting the earth, which is also a ball, which is also spinning. So, the odds of those mirrors EVER being at the precise location on the moon and at the precise angle to the earth to produce a successful LASER bounce are way worse than hitting the MEGA lottery. It might have happened ONCE, but I doubt it.

 

[Days]

Your powers of deductive reasoning run level with the canals in ancient Atlantis.

I have presented the science. Your total ignorance of sun studies doesn't shut off sunshine.

 

[Ernie S.]

you are a total idiot... that's why I ignored you.

Yeah right.

You are the one who says heat cannot radiate without molecules. The Sun duh.

You are the one who refers to REM as a measurement of space radiation when it is the absorbed dose for a human being.

You are the one who thinks that space is somehow flooded with lethal radiation - which mysteriously doesn't burn out all the unmanned craft, satellites, the ISS or kill the occupants.

During solar maximum, the solar wind is actually LESS - I bet you didn't even know that did you. The solar wind is by far the major radiation component received on the Moon and in cislunar space. Very few of the CME events come towards Earth.

Don't call me an idiot - you type crap you pick up from google, only one of us actually understands it, and it ain't you. Now, what have you got? Show me some figures or some citations. Because the "hey look at the big bright Sun Spots" isn't quite cutting it.

Let's note here that you have no response whatsoever to the plain science of sun spots. When you have no idea how to argue with someone who actually knows the subject matter, just lower yourself to making up blatant Lies and claim that the other guy said it. Now let's look at how badly you twisted my words (where I can even guess WTF you are talking about). This post should suffice to show why I called you a total idiot, which, now considering it in retrospect, was far too kind.


"You are the one who says heat cannot radiate without molecules. The Sun duh."


heat cannot radiate without molecules??? That's not even English, it makes no sense, and I sure didn't say it. What you are saying is that the absence of molecules in space might destroy Apollo's ability to shed heat off its skin through heat exchange, but it doesn't stop the sun from radiating heat into that skin, and it doesn't stop that same heat from convexing into the cabin since the pressurized cabin does have gas molecules. So, while in low earth orbit, flying at 17,000 mph through a thin layer of molecules that does shed heat from the skin, and the obvious shade from the earth reduces the heat buildup from the sun, results in the space ship environment becoming slightly cooled, the cabin was still warmed sufficiently by the heat release from the water coolers and the electronics to stay at "room temperature" ... but this whole equilibrium is lost once Apollo leaves for the moon. Sun radiates heat in the 3 inch aluminum skin and that heat is conveyed into the cabin, and very quickly the whole system builds to 250 degrees. So, yes, the Sun would have baked them alive, I think this is what you are twisting up...

The Apollo missions didn't have radiation cooling. This was the 1960's. You know what they called cabin cooling? Compressed air... and while that makes for a nice environment in low earth orbit, it isn't enough to cool down a 250 degree space craft; which is what you get when you take a 3 inch thick aluminum can into 24 hour sunlight. But they had "shake and bake"; rolling the craft 180 degrees, which supposedly cooled off the underside. and you have sheep who still believe that works. In reality, it doesn't matter how much you roll the craft, it produces no cooling, there's no heat exchange with space, there's no molecules to produce heat exchange. If they had really left low earth orbit, the crafts would have heated to 250 degrees in a matter of 1-3 hours, and since water boils at 220 degrees, they would have died in 1-3 hours from heat strokes... and their carcasses would have cooked while their craft flew outward in a space odyssey.


"You are the one who refers to REM as a measurement of space radiation when it is the absorbed dose for a human being."

It is a measurement of dosage. I think this is what you are twisting up...

major flares had hundreds of REM. (A Rad is the basic measurement of radiation; REM = Rad Equivalent Man... it refers to a dose of radiation resulting in one Rad deposited over the entire surface of a man or instrument or dog or whatever gets the dosage).


"You are the one who thinks that space is somehow flooded with lethal radiation - which mysteriously doesn't burn out all the unmanned craft, satellites, the ISS or kill the occupants."

Nothing mysterious about unmanned craft not being killed by lethal radiation. Radiation is lethal to humans, not metal. Satellites, however, are messed up by the Van Allen belts, that's why they orbit above or below the magnetosphere. (That would be due to the magnetism more than the radiation.) The ISS flies at roughly 250 miles up, where there is no radiation, which is amazingly stupid of you to point out, that's the whole point of the whole thread, but that's why I said you are a total idiot. But that might be unfair, you might be a damned bright ten year old for all I know. Then you've got this statement that radiation would burn out probes... whatever that's about.

What I said was period specific to the sun cycle; earth orbit space is filled with lethal radiation at solar maximum.


"Don't call me an idiot - you type crap you pick up from google, only one of us actually understands it, and it ain't you. Now, what have you got? Show me some figures or some citations. Because the "hey look at the big bright Sun Spots" isn't quite cutting it. "

No, I'm sorry, you are every bit the total idiot I called you and more. What I have posted is common knowledge to the science of the sun. In fact it is so basic, you could consider it the first week of sun studies 101. You want figures or some citations to make it feel official? How about you go teach yourself the science? Then come back here and apologize when you discover how terribly, terribly ignorant your rant was. As for the REM measurements of Apollo missions, NASA has it posted online.

I'm done with you.

Now you're talking my language. Radiated heat is essentially infra-red radiation, light, if you will. I KNOW IR. I spent 20 years designing IR optical systems.
What you don't seem to grasp is that the space capsule would have only half of it's surface facing the sun at any given moment and because of it's shape a good deal of the IR striking its surface would bounce pretty much harmlessly away, while 50% of the surface is radiating the gained heat back into space.
The LEM had gold coated mylar on its surfaces. The Apollo capsule had aluminized mylar in its insulation layer.
If you knew anything at all about IR, you would know that gold reflects 99% of infra-red radiation and aluminum, 96%. While the outer surface of the capsule would likely have been hot to the touch, but as it spun away from the sun it would have cooled as rapidly as it had heated. Most of the heat gain in the capsule was from the astronauts themselves and the electrical systems; fuel cells, etc and the electronics.

 

[Ernie S.]

Your powers of deductive reasoning run level with the canals in ancient Atlantis.

I have presented the science. Your total ignorance of sun studies doesn't shut off sunshine.

You have presented what you claim to be science without any real practical knowledge of the science you speak of. You have been contradicted by several people with extensive knowledge of the fields addressed, and you accuse THEM of lying?
There's really little point in continuing to discuss this with you, but I will be back every 48 hours. IYKWIM

 

[Days]

You are beneath contempt. A total ignoramus who lives purely to argue and fight without any regard for truth. You attack posters with cuss words in personal messages and negative reputation and obviously only have one objective; to run them off the board. You were the first person to lead the attack on me and remain the most persistent. You don't seem to possess any natural understanding of any of the sciences and this isn't at all necessary for your weaponry, as David had no need of a battle shield or sword against Goliath... No, your weapons lie in your base and assinine approach to posters, attempting to bully, intimidate, irritate, and coerce with thug mannerisms and sewage ridicule. You are like some kind of mutant snake that rose from the idiocy of debunking, to come here and attack posters with total Lies, both about content, and position.

ernie, just reach up and flush yourself, already, end the misery.

 

[DaveB]

You are beneath contempt. A total ignoramus who lives purely to argue and fight without any regard for truth. You attack posters with cuss words in personal messages and negative reputation and obviously only have one objective; to run them off the board. You were the first person to lead the attack on me and remain the most persistent. You don't seem to possess any natural understanding of any of the sciences and this isn't at all necessary for your weaponry, as David had no need of a battle shield or sword against Goliath... No, your weapons lie in your base and assinine approach to posters, attempting to bully, intimidate, irritate, and coerce with thug mannerisms and sewage ridicule. You are like some kind of mutant snake that rose from the idiocy of debunking, to come here and attack posters with total Lies, both about content, and position.

ernie, just reach up and flush yourself, already, end the misery.

You seem a little miffed that anybody dares respond to you! It's really obvious that you know nothing about the subject matter. Once my posts get up to 15, I shall fire a few links out to help educate you.

 

[Days]

We know that the space ship's hull was 3 inch aluminum which provided zero shielding against radiation poisoning present in energetic protons. Actually, the energetic protons would have became active x-rays after making contact with aluminum. The Apollo spacecraft were the perfect way to kill their occupants had they actually ventured into the sun's radiation. What were "the most high-energy protons and cosmic rays"? You are talking out your arse again. Are we to deduce that some proton ions are created with less charge than other protons? You responded to the opening post, which was purely about solar flares and their creation of energetic particles. And then instead of speaking about the x-rays that deliver the radiation poisoning, you go after cosmic rays, which are truly a concern somewhere far off in the universe as the Enterprise gets too close to exploding stars, but have nothing to do with the radiation poisoning delivered by solar flares... your blunders are pathetic.

Then you babble on about Apollo 14 and show off your ability to translate REM into Seiverts, but say nothing other than the same thing I'm saying; that the Apollo mission dosimeters all recorded low earth orbit doses.... and yeah, they sure were well within the 5 REM allowable for industrial jobs and certainly within the 25 REM allowable for the nuclear industry... that was the whole point.

So, will you concede that Apollo missions were obviously low earth orbit missions?

oh wait, you already have.

another idiot stalker who followed me from his failed attempts at debunking structural analysis of WTC.

 

[DaveB]

And they don't have to aim for a three foot mirror because they bounce the LASER off the surface of the moon, just like they did before the Apollo missions. The process always required a few shots at it, you have to nail just the right angle of moon surface to get a LASER light to bounce back off a ball straight back to earth. Only diff is, now when they get the right angle, they claim they hit the mirrors... which, if you think about it, would be totally useless for this same project.... the moon is a ball orbiting the earth, which is also a ball, which is also spinning. So, the odds of those mirrors EVER being at the precise location on the moon and at the precise angle to the earth to produce a successful LASER bounce are way worse than hitting the MEGA lottery. It might have happened ONCE, but I doubt it.

You seem to miss the startling implication of your claim. The people who have been performing this laser ranging for the last 44 years know what they are doing. Your claim suggests that every single one of them is either stupid or is hiding the "fact" that they are bouncing light off of the surface. It is a ridiculous claim.


Do yourself a favour and watch these two videos. It may stop you making yourself look a bit short on knowledge:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIyS3I61j8]MoonFaker: Exhibit D: Critique #11A: LLR Before Reflectors - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuZiU70OcnY]MoonFaker: Exhibit D: Critique #11B: LLR After Reflectors - YouTube[/ame]