New Israel Law Makes Apartheid Official

[Toddsterpatriot]

Don't they want self-determination? Why not?

They aren't Syrian. Why in the hell should they go to Syria?

If they aren't getting self-determination from those pesky Jews, they should go to a nice Muslim country to get some. Don't you agree?

Why should Palestinains seek self-determination outside of their native land, Palestine?

To get away from those pesky Jews.

Maybe they would rather that the Jews get away from them.

We've seen how the Arabs get their asses beat when they fight the Jews.
Safer for them if they just move.
Then they could learn a skill..........besides whining.

 

[rylah]

I think this new law sets in stone a system for different classes of people and not everyone has the same rights. It's not self determination for Israelis but self determination for Jews.

So I wonder how this will play out in practice.

There is no Israeli nationality.

There's an Israeli citizenship.
The nationalities in Israel are categorized by ethnicity and culture.

Otherwise the Arabs would all be forced to change their nationality and become Israeli's, while the majority of them identifies as being Palestinians/Arabs.
This goes also for the Jews in Israel, who prefer to keep their Jewish nationality, rather than become disconnected from the Jews in diaspora by declaring a separate nationality.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is about to become a law that Israel will be a Jewish state and democratic too. Discrimination for Jews and against other citizens will be protected by law. According to this proposed law, while every individual has the right “to preserve his culture, heritage, language and identity,” the right to realize self-determination “is unique to the Jewish people.”
Reigniting old dispute, ministers okay new ‘Jewish State’ bill
What about Arab citizens of Israel having a right to self-determination? That will not exist in the "democratic" Jewish state. This solves the problem for the Israelis who have de facto annexed the Palestinian Territories because they will be outnumbered when the Palestinians of Sumeria and Judea will be a threat of being a majority in the sectarian state. Apartheid, or negating the rights of Arabs, is the only way for Israel to be democratic. The only problem remaining for the Israelis is that apartheid meets with universal opprobrium.

Excellent.

Time to kick the nasty Muzzi-Pals out of Gaza and the West Bank, and shove 'em back across to the East Bank of the Jordan River, where they belong.

In Arab Palestine.

a.k.a. "Jordan"

More room in Syria.

 

[montelatici]

It is about to become a law that Israel will be a Jewish state and democratic too. Discrimination for Jews and against other citizens will be protected by law. According to this proposed law, while every individual has the right “to preserve his culture, heritage, language and identity,” the right to realize self-determination “is unique to the Jewish people.”
Reigniting old dispute, ministers okay new ‘Jewish State’ bill
What about Arab citizens of Israel having a right to self-determination? That will not exist in the "democratic" Jewish state. This solves the problem for the Israelis who have de facto annexed the Palestinian Territories because they will be outnumbered when the Palestinians of Sumeria and Judea will be a threat of being a majority in the sectarian state. Apartheid, or negating the rights of Arabs, is the only way for Israel to be democratic. The only problem remaining for the Israelis is that apartheid meets with universal opprobrium.

Excellent.

Time to kick the nasty Muzzi-Pals out of Gaza and the West Bank, and shove 'em back across to the East Bank of the Jordan River, where they belong.

In Arab Palestine.

a.k.a. "Jordan"

More room in Syria.

How can a Hashemite Kingdom be Arab Palestine? The Hashemite subjects are Bedouins, Arabians. Palestinian Christians and Muslims are Levantines with very little Arabian DNA.

 

[rylah]

Yes and those Jews can be totally secular. So?

So Israeli citizens who are not Jews will be disqualified from realizing their self determination under this proposed law. When these non-Jewish citizens eventually outnumber Jews it will be impossible for it to be a democracy as the majority will be subject to a Jewish minority. Such a country will have to be an Apartheid one.

So all we are dealing here with are - Your delusional projections to the future?
The Israelis voted for their representatives in the Parliament. Those representatives voted democratically on the bill.

None of Your business what people choose deocratically in their state.

But further, try to explain - why is Judenrhein Palestine a precondition to negotiations with the Palestinians?

It is very much the present. If you had been reading the posts in this thread you will know that Palestinians are projected to outnumber Jewish Israelis by the end of this year. When Israel formally incorporates Judea and Sumeria, there will be all the Palestinians of the West Bank part of Israel, necessitating an Apartheid system in order to maintain Jewish domination. This new law is designed for such an eventuality.

Oh if You base Your knowledge on what's written here in the posts,
You'll find that Jews slept all their way through Holocaust, or that the law talks about religion...

Jews in Israel: 6,419,000 vs Arabs 1,786,000
Jews in Judea Samaria : around 500000 vs around 2000000 Arabs.

Are You good with math?

edit: we have yet talked about the recent change of trends in Arab birth rate, Israeli birth rate, the amount of Palestinian students who go to study abroad and stay there...
Maybe You WANT an apartheid for the Arabs but reality is different.

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

 

[rylah]

...the right to realize self-determination “is unique to the Jewish people.”

So what does that mean in practice?

I think it's pretty clear.

Actually, it's somewhat ambiguous. I'm not seeing it as apartheid.

The statement is crystal clear; only Jews will be allowed to realize their self-determination in Israel. This means that, in Israel only Jews will have recognition of the freedom to promote Israeli statehood the form of government. No longer will there be even lip-service for fundamental freedoms for all citizens without distinction as to race, language, or religion. For example, Arabic (the mother tongue of about 20% of citizens now) will not be considered a national language in Israel. The current population of Israel is 6,484,000 Jews (74.7%) and 1,808,000 (20.8%) are Arabs. Consequently, Israel can claim to be a democracy since Jews are the majority. When Judea and Sumeria (the West Bank) are added and Gaza, the number of Palestinians in Israel and the Occupied Territories will equal the number of Jews by the end of 2017, according to a report issued by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statics.
Palestinian Population To Pass Jews by 2017 in Israel and Territories
It is as a direct result of these demographics, that the Israeli Jews want a new law to deny Arabs equality for their national aspirations. This will put an end to the boast that Israel respects democratic majority rule. Apartheid is the only option to preserve Jewish domination.

I support 2 states for 2 peoples. As for Arabic (besides the fact that it's not in any danger of being forgotten, being the national language of 22 countries), it happens to be the 2nd national language of Israel. I remember when Israel had only one TV station back in the day. The 6:30 to 8 pm time-slot was reserved for Arabic-only programming. All road signs in Israel are in Hebrew and Arabic (and sometimes English as well).

The new bill removes Arabic as an official language of Israel.

The bill gives a unique status to the Arabic language.
All while this status is supported by a dozen other laws that demands Arabic to be taught in the schools, as well as allocating a special budget for it.
The same as the demand to have documents written both in Hebrew and Arabic and so on...

Jews are 80% in Israel, is it really that the majority chose Hebrew as the official language for a Jewish homeland?

 

[rylah]

It is about to become a law that Israel will be a Jewish state and democratic too. Discrimination for Jews and against other citizens will be protected by law. According to this proposed law, while every individual has the right “to preserve his culture, heritage, language and identity,” the right to realize self-determination “is unique to the Jewish people.”
Reigniting old dispute, ministers okay new ‘Jewish State’ bill
What about Arab citizens of Israel having a right to self-determination? That will not exist in the "democratic" Jewish state. This solves the problem for the Israelis who have de facto annexed the Palestinian Territories because they will be outnumbered when the Palestinians of Sumeria and Judea will be a threat of being a majority in the sectarian state. Apartheid, or negating the rights of Arabs, is the only way for Israel to be democratic. The only problem remaining for the Israelis is that apartheid meets with universal opprobrium.

Excellent.

Time to kick the nasty Muzzi-Pals out of Gaza and the West Bank, and shove 'em back across to the East Bank of the Jordan River, where they belong.

In Arab Palestine.

a.k.a. "Jordan"

More room in Syria.

How can a Hashemite Kingdom be Arab Palestine? The Hashemite subjects are Bedouins, Arabians. Palestinian Christians and Muslims are Levantines with very little Arabian DNA.

Actually Gazan's are mostly Bedouin and Egyptian while Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Israel are more clan oriented.
Palestinians have strong divisions, and usually tend NOT to marry into other clans.

Do You have a link for the Arabian DNA among Palestinians, or is it a wild guess?

How do You explain those common Palestinian surnames like al-Masri, al-Husseini, Mughrabi etc?

 

[Eloy]

So Israeli citizens who are not Jews will be disqualified from realizing their self determination under this proposed law. When these non-Jewish citizens eventually outnumber Jews it will be impossible for it to be a democracy as the majority will be subject to a Jewish minority. Such a country will have to be an Apartheid one.

So all we are dealing here with are - Your delusional projections to the future?
The Israelis voted for their representatives in the Parliament. Those representatives voted democratically on the bill.

None of Your business what people choose deocratically in their state.

But further, try to explain - why is Judenrhein Palestine a precondition to negotiations with the Palestinians?

It is very much the present. If you had been reading the posts in this thread you will know that Palestinians are projected to outnumber Jewish Israelis by the end of this year. When Israel formally incorporates Judea and Sumeria, there will be all the Palestinians of the West Bank part of Israel, necessitating an Apartheid system in order to maintain Jewish domination. This new law is designed for such an eventuality.

Oh if You base Your knowledge on what's written here in the posts,
You'll find that Jews slept all their way through Holocaust, or that the law talks about religion...

Jews in Israel: 6,419,000 vs Arabs 1,786,000
Jews in Judea Samaria : around 500000 vs around 2000000 Arabs.

Are You good with math?

edit: we have yet talked about the recent change of trends in Arab birth rate, Israeli birth rate, the amount of Palestinian students who go to study abroad and stay there...
Maybe You WANT an apartheid for the Arabs but reality is different.

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

It is the Israeli Jews who are afraid of being outnumbered in their own country. Annexing Judea and Sumeria will add 1.7 million Arabs bringing the non-Jewish population of Israel to 3,753,300. Then add the Palestinians in blockaded Gaza who are the responsibility of Israel as the occupying country, 1,816,000. This gives a total of non-Jews in Israel as 5,569,300 and Jews as 6,119,000 right now, today. This is not including Palestinians who live outside traditional Palestine The occupied territories are under the total control of Jewish Israelis who cannot wash their hands of the Palestinian people who are going nowhere. This means that today Jews make up only about 52% of Israel, including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza. Jewish Israelis are about to become citizens of an officially Apartheid Israel which is what the proposed bill is designed to bring into existence.

 

[rylah]

"Unique"?

When and where does the law says such thing.

The OP is a liar.

What does the law actually say?

THAT should have been the question in the first place, instead of the stupid opening post.

So, let's talk about this bill.

This bill was brought forth by two ministers: Avi Dicther and Ze'ez Alkin, who initiated the bill on the 18th Knesset. It has two versions. The one by Ayelet Shaked, who's the minister of law, and Ze'ev Elkin. The first bill talked about a law declaining openly that "Israel is a Jewish state", but the written version states that "Israel is the national home of the Jewish people". (Which is nothing new! it was the idea brought by the Zionist movement since 1803).

Later on, ministers Shaked, Elkin and Levin fixed the bill, which is not under question. later on, Netanyahu brought his own versions.

THIS is the main clauses of the general bill:

1. Israel is the national home of the Jewish people.

2. Israel is obligated to preserve the Jewish tradition, which includes the Hebrew Calendar, the Hebrew language and Jewish law.

3. Jews have the right to make Aliyah to Israel and gain citizenship.

4. The Arabic language will gain "special status" in Israel.

5. Freedom of expression will remain a high value to all three religions.

6. The state will keep the holy places of all religions.

7. Israel is under a democratic regime.

8. Israel is built on the values of freedome and justice, as the prophets of Israel first called, and be obligated to keep human rights of each citizen and groups, as first anounced.

There is nothing democratic about a nation that selects a specific religion as the national religion and declaring itself the home of a specific religion. It would be like the U.S. declaring itself the home of the Christian people. LOL

Do christians constitute an ethnicity?

This has nothing to do with religion. A Hassidic Jew has as much right to settle in Israel as a secular or even Christian Jew.

You can't seperate out the religion - it's part of being Jewish, even if you are non-practicing. People can convert and become Jewish, even though they have no Jewish heritage. It has everything to do with religion.

Did I separate?
I just made a point to balance the attempt to picture Jewishness as NOTHING BUT religion.
Mind You identifying with ritual, religion, language and culture are among the most basic definitions of an ethnic group.

However can You tell us how many convert to Judaism on average, that it actually has any impact on the issue?

 

[rylah]

So all we are dealing here with are - Your delusional projections to the future?
The Israelis voted for their representatives in the Parliament. Those representatives voted democratically on the bill.

None of Your business what people choose deocratically in their state.

But further, try to explain - why is Judenrhein Palestine a precondition to negotiations with the Palestinians?

It is very much the present. If you had been reading the posts in this thread you will know that Palestinians are projected to outnumber Jewish Israelis by the end of this year. When Israel formally incorporates Judea and Sumeria, there will be all the Palestinians of the West Bank part of Israel, necessitating an Apartheid system in order to maintain Jewish domination. This new law is designed for such an eventuality.

Oh if You base Your knowledge on what's written here in the posts,
You'll find that Jews slept all their way through Holocaust, or that the law talks about religion...

Jews in Israel: 6,419,000 vs Arabs 1,786,000
Jews in Judea Samaria : around 500000 vs around 2000000 Arabs.

Are You good with math?

edit: we have yet talked about the recent change of trends in Arab birth rate, Israeli birth rate, the amount of Palestinian students who go to study abroad and stay there...
Maybe You WANT an apartheid for the Arabs but reality is different.

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

It is the Israeli Jews who are afraid of being outnumbered in their own country. Annexing Judea and Sumeria will add 1.7 million Arabs bringing the non-Jewish population of Israel to 3,753,300. Then add the Palestinians in blockaded Gaza who are the responsibility of Israel as the occupying country, 1,816,000. This gives a total of non-Jews in Israel as 5,569,300 and Jews as 6,119,000 right now, today. This is not including Palestinians who live outside traditional Palestine The occupied territories are under the total control of Jewish Israelis who cannot wash their hands of the Palestinian people who are going nowhere. This means that today Jews make up only about 52% of Israel, including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza. Jewish Israelis are about to become citizens of an officially Apartheid Israel which is what the proposed bill is designed to bring into existence.

Well first of all let's get the lies out:

1. The PA has full security and civilian control in Palestinian urban areas( Area A)
2. The PA has civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B").
3. Gaza is ruled by Hamas.
Hamas is responsible for Gaza, Egypt and Israel are responsible for keeping their borders with Gaza safe.

Now get this - Gaza is not Israel, and the Israelis don't need or want it.
The PA doesn't have enough population to be of any significant threat, especially with their declining birth rate, and the amount of students who stay abroad.
And Israel has not ever indicated an intention of letting any significant number of refugees threaten the only Jewish homeland.

If You want a Palestinian national home You'll have to accept a Jewish national home as well.

 

[Eloy]

It is very much the present. If you had been reading the posts in this thread you will know that Palestinians are projected to outnumber Jewish Israelis by the end of this year. When Israel formally incorporates Judea and Sumeria, there will be all the Palestinians of the West Bank part of Israel, necessitating an Apartheid system in order to maintain Jewish domination. This new law is designed for such an eventuality.

Oh if You base Your knowledge on what's written here in the posts,
You'll find that Jews slept all their way through Holocaust, or that the law talks about religion...

Jews in Israel: 6,419,000 vs Arabs 1,786,000
Jews in Judea Samaria : around 500000 vs around 2000000 Arabs.

Are You good with math?

edit: we have yet talked about the recent change of trends in Arab birth rate, Israeli birth rate, the amount of Palestinian students who go to study abroad and stay there...
Maybe You WANT an apartheid for the Arabs but reality is different.

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

It is the Israeli Jews who are afraid of being outnumbered in their own country. Annexing Judea and Sumeria will add 1.7 million Arabs bringing the non-Jewish population of Israel to 3,753,300. Then add the Palestinians in blockaded Gaza who are the responsibility of Israel as the occupying country, 1,816,000. This gives a total of non-Jews in Israel as 5,569,300 and Jews as 6,119,000 right now, today. This is not including Palestinians who live outside traditional Palestine The occupied territories are under the total control of Jewish Israelis who cannot wash their hands of the Palestinian people who are going nowhere. This means that today Jews make up only about 52% of Israel, including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza. Jewish Israelis are about to become citizens of an officially Apartheid Israel which is what the proposed bill is designed to bring into existence.

Well first of all let's get the lies out:

1. The PA has full security and civilian control in Palestinian urban areas( Area A)
2. The PA has civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B").
3. Gaza is ruled by Hamas.
Hamas is responsible for Gaza, Egypt and Israel are responsible for keeping their borders with Gaza safe.

Now get this - Gaza is not Israel, and the Israelis don't need or want it.
The PA doesn't have enough population to be of any significant threat, especially with their declining birth rate, and the amount of students who stay abroad.
And Israel has not ever indicated an intention of letting any significant number of refugees threaten the only Jewish homeland.

If You want a Palestinian national home You'll have to accept a Jewish national home as well.

What you write is propaganda and not a soul believes it.
1. There are no "Areas" in Judea and Sumeria. It is all occupied Palestinian territory and by creating "Area A" the Israelis are trying to have Ghettos similar to the Judenräte in Nazi-occupied Poland. The Palestinian collaborators who allow themselves to be called an Authority bring shame on the Palestinian people.
2. The Palestinian collaborators police their people in rural areas on behalf of the Israeli Jews. Someone needs to put a bullet in Abbas' head and let the Israeli Jews get on with the job of occupation. The whole of the West Bank is land promised by G-d to His people, the Jews.
3. Gaza is still part of the occupied Palestinian Territories and its border is controlled by Israeli Jews as are its waters and air space. (To the south the hostile dictatorship in Egypt does the controlling of the border to the satisfaction of Israel.) Under international law, Israel is charged with the responsibility of Palestinian welfare in the Occupied Territories, including Gaza.

I agree with you that the Israeli Jews are willing to offload their responsibility for Gaza but by blockading the Strip, the Israelis deny self determination to the Palestinians there and keep them suppressed, under Israeli control. The Israelis cannot have it both ways; either Gaza is liberated or remains the responsibility of the occupying country.

You might think the Palestinians are no threat to Israel but that is not what the Israeli Jews tell the world whenever they kill youths in Judea and Sumeria or when a firecracker is lobbed from Gaza to be answered by periodic massacres of the population there and destruction of the infrastructure. Make no mistake about it; as long as the occupation/blockade of the Palestinian territories is maintained, the 52% of Jews will soon be a minority in their own country. See how safe Israeli Jews will feel then and how Apartheid will work for them.

 

[rylah]

Oh if You base Your knowledge on what's written here in the posts,
You'll find that Jews slept all their way through Holocaust, or that the law talks about religion...

Jews in Israel: 6,419,000 vs Arabs 1,786,000
Jews in Judea Samaria : around 500000 vs around 2000000 Arabs.

Are You good with math?

edit: we have yet talked about the recent change of trends in Arab birth rate, Israeli birth rate, the amount of Palestinian students who go to study abroad and stay there...
Maybe You WANT an apartheid for the Arabs but reality is different.

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

It is the Israeli Jews who are afraid of being outnumbered in their own country. Annexing Judea and Sumeria will add 1.7 million Arabs bringing the non-Jewish population of Israel to 3,753,300. Then add the Palestinians in blockaded Gaza who are the responsibility of Israel as the occupying country, 1,816,000. This gives a total of non-Jews in Israel as 5,569,300 and Jews as 6,119,000 right now, today. This is not including Palestinians who live outside traditional Palestine The occupied territories are under the total control of Jewish Israelis who cannot wash their hands of the Palestinian people who are going nowhere. This means that today Jews make up only about 52% of Israel, including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza. Jewish Israelis are about to become citizens of an officially Apartheid Israel which is what the proposed bill is designed to bring into existence.

Well first of all let's get the lies out:

1. The PA has full security and civilian control in Palestinian urban areas( Area A)
2. The PA has civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B").
3. Gaza is ruled by Hamas.
Hamas is responsible for Gaza, Egypt and Israel are responsible for keeping their borders with Gaza safe.

Now get this - Gaza is not Israel, and the Israelis don't need or want it.
The PA doesn't have enough population to be of any significant threat, especially with their declining birth rate, and the amount of students who stay abroad.
And Israel has not ever indicated an intention of letting any significant number of refugees threaten the only Jewish homeland.

If You want a Palestinian national home You'll have to accept a Jewish national home as well.

What you write is propaganda and not a soul believes it.
1. There are no "Areas" in Judea and Sumeria. It is all occupied Palestinian territory and by creating "Area A" the Israelis are trying to have Ghettos similar to the Judenräte in Nazi-occupied Poland. The Palestinian collaborators who allow themselves to be called an Authority bring shame on the Palestinian people.
2. The Palestinian collaborators police their people in rural areas on behalf of the Israeli Jews. Someone needs to put a bullet in Abbas' head and let the Israeli Jews get on with the job of occupation. The whole of the West Bank is land promised by G-d to His people, the Jews.
3. Gaza is still part of the occupied Palestinian Territories and its border is controlled by Israeli Jews as are its waters and air space. (To the south the hostile dictatorship in Egypt does the controlling of the border to the satisfaction of Israel.) Under international law, Israel is charged with the responsibility of Palestinian welfare in the Occupied Territories, including Gaza.

I agree with you that the Israeli Jews are willing to offload their responsibility for Gaza but by blockading the Strip, the Israelis deny self determination to the Palestinians there and keep them suppressed, under Israeli control. The Israelis cannot have it both ways; either Gaza is liberated or remains the responsibility of the occupying country.

You might think the Palestinians are no threat to Israel but that is not what the Israeli Jews tell the world whenever they kill youths in Judea and Sumeria or when a firecracker is lobbed from Gaza to be answered by periodic massacres of the population there and destruction of the infrastructure. Make no mistake about it; as long as the occupation/blockade of the Palestinian territories is maintained, the 52% of Jews will soon be a minority in their own country. See how safe Israeli Jews will feel then and how Apartheid will work for them.

Your opinions and speculations aside, this is what the Palestinian govt. signed and agreed upon with Israel:

1.The Oslo II Accord divided the West Bank into three administrative divisions: Areas A, B and C. The distinct areas were given different statuses, according to their governance pending a final status accord: Area A is exclusively administered by the Palestinian Authority;
Area B is administered by both the Palestinian Authority and Israel; and Area C is administered by Israel.

2. You suggest assassinating Abu Mazen so that the evil Jews do their evil?
Oh that's gold! A very rational argument...

3.So now You speak for Egyptians too?
The Egyptians have their own good reasons to control THEIR border with Hamas, and this is exactly what shows that Your argument is false, they express it openly:

The official indicated that “the Egyptian authorities also requested the presence of Palestinian presidential guards along the border strip separating Gaza and Egypt, provided that they combat all attempts at digging new tunnels to replace those that the Egyptian army had destroyed during the past year and a half.”
Egypt won’t open Rafah crossing if Hamas controls it

At least two others were injured when unknown fighters fired on the buses as the military convoy headed towards Rafah, on the border with the Palestinian Gaza Strip.
Egypt shut the Rafah crossing after the attack, an official told AFP news agency, the sole crossing into Gaza.
Egypt soldiers killed in Sinai ambush
At least 25 troops killed after rocket-propelled grenades strike buses near Rafah, officials say.

This is the deadliest attack on Egyptian soldiers since August 2013, when 25 Egyptian soldiers were killed in the border city of Rafah while returning home to their families for a holiday.

In July 2014, 21 soldiers were killed in an attack reportedly carried out by arms smugglers in Egypt’s Farafra Oasis near Libya.

In August 2012, another deadly attack killed 16 Egyptian soldiers in Rafah as they were breaking their Ramadan fast during sunset.
31 Egyptian Soldiers Killed in Two Sinai Attacks



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So by the same logic You imply towards Israel,

Are the Gazan's also occupied by Egypt, and should Gazan's vote in their elections as well?

 

[Kondor3]

The only value that any Agreement has, that is signed by Fatah or Hamas or Hezbollah, is to increase the supply of toilet tissue.

 

[rylah]

The only value that any Agreement has, that is signed by Fatah or Hamas or Hezbollah, is to increase the supply of toilet tissue.

Beside the fact that Arabs are divided first by their hamulah's within certain clans, they have those political fractions.

If Fatah signs anything, Hamas can disagree, if they both agree there come the Barghouthi's and so on...

 

[montelatici]

In an earlier post I provided the link showing the outnumbering of Jews by the end of this year.
Jews intend to annex Sumeria and Judea to Israel when they will be responsible for all the Palestinians of the West Bank being within Israel. With the chokehold blockade of Gaza continuing, the Palestinians there are being prevented from exercising self determination. There is no way a peaceful, just, and democratic Israel can be achieved. The enlargement of Israel is a step too far and, even with this proposed law, Israeli Jews are petrified of becoming a minority in their own country.

You're misleading, and Your claim is based on a sole premise -
that Your imagined projection on Israeli future decisions are a matter of fact.

-First You claimed that Israel is planning to fully annex Judea and Samaria and thus create a system where a minority rules over the majority.
Once refuted with simple math...
- You proceeded with changing the goalpost to match Your agenda, adding the number of Gazan's and the Palestinian diaspora abroad.
In order 'to make it work' You've claimed that Gazan's somehow fall under the Israeli authority, probably by holding another erroneous idea that Israel was planning, or already has annexed Gaza.

So answer please, should we balance it out by including the Jewish diaspora as well?

Or maybe we should talk about Jewish self determination in the future PA state?

It is the Israeli Jews who are afraid of being outnumbered in their own country. Annexing Judea and Sumeria will add 1.7 million Arabs bringing the non-Jewish population of Israel to 3,753,300. Then add the Palestinians in blockaded Gaza who are the responsibility of Israel as the occupying country, 1,816,000. This gives a total of non-Jews in Israel as 5,569,300 and Jews as 6,119,000 right now, today. This is not including Palestinians who live outside traditional Palestine The occupied territories are under the total control of Jewish Israelis who cannot wash their hands of the Palestinian people who are going nowhere. This means that today Jews make up only about 52% of Israel, including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza. Jewish Israelis are about to become citizens of an officially Apartheid Israel which is what the proposed bill is designed to bring into existence.

Well first of all let's get the lies out:

1. The PA has full security and civilian control in Palestinian urban areas( Area A)
2. The PA has civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B").
3. Gaza is ruled by Hamas.
Hamas is responsible for Gaza, Egypt and Israel are responsible for keeping their borders with Gaza safe.

Now get this - Gaza is not Israel, and the Israelis don't need or want it.
The PA doesn't have enough population to be of any significant threat, especially with their declining birth rate, and the amount of students who stay abroad.
And Israel has not ever indicated an intention of letting any significant number of refugees threaten the only Jewish homeland.

If You want a Palestinian national home You'll have to accept a Jewish national home as well.

What you write is propaganda and not a soul believes it.
1. There are no "Areas" in Judea and Sumeria. It is all occupied Palestinian territory and by creating "Area A" the Israelis are trying to have Ghettos similar to the Judenräte in Nazi-occupied Poland. The Palestinian collaborators who allow themselves to be called an Authority bring shame on the Palestinian people.
2. The Palestinian collaborators police their people in rural areas on behalf of the Israeli Jews. Someone needs to put a bullet in Abbas' head and let the Israeli Jews get on with the job of occupation. The whole of the West Bank is land promised by G-d to His people, the Jews.
3. Gaza is still part of the occupied Palestinian Territories and its border is controlled by Israeli Jews as are its waters and air space. (To the south the hostile dictatorship in Egypt does the controlling of the border to the satisfaction of Israel.) Under international law, Israel is charged with the responsibility of Palestinian welfare in the Occupied Territories, including Gaza.

I agree with you that the Israeli Jews are willing to offload their responsibility for Gaza but by blockading the Strip, the Israelis deny self determination to the Palestinians there and keep them suppressed, under Israeli control. The Israelis cannot have it both ways; either Gaza is liberated or remains the responsibility of the occupying country.

You might think the Palestinians are no threat to Israel but that is not what the Israeli Jews tell the world whenever they kill youths in Judea and Sumeria or when a firecracker is lobbed from Gaza to be answered by periodic massacres of the population there and destruction of the infrastructure. Make no mistake about it; as long as the occupation/blockade of the Palestinian territories is maintained, the 52% of Jews will soon be a minority in their own country. See how safe Israeli Jews will feel then and how Apartheid will work for them.

Your opinions and speculations aside, this is what the Palestinian govt. signed and agreed upon with Israel:

1.The Oslo II Accord divided the West Bank into three administrative divisions: Areas A, B and C. The distinct areas were given different statuses, according to their governance pending a final status accord: Area A is exclusively administered by the Palestinian Authority;
Area B is administered by both the Palestinian Authority and Israel; and Area C is administered by Israel.

2. You suggest assassinating Abu Mazen so that the evil Jews do their evil?
Oh that's gold! A very rational argument...

3.So now You speak for Egyptians too?
The Egyptians have their own good reasons to control THEIR border with Hamas, and this is exactly what shows that Your argument is false, they express it openly:

The official indicated that “the Egyptian authorities also requested the presence of Palestinian presidential guards along the border strip separating Gaza and Egypt, provided that they combat all attempts at digging new tunnels to replace those that the Egyptian army had destroyed during the past year and a half.”
Egypt won’t open Rafah crossing if Hamas controls it

At least two others were injured when unknown fighters fired on the buses as the military convoy headed towards Rafah, on the border with the Palestinian Gaza Strip.
Egypt shut the Rafah crossing after the attack, an official told AFP news agency, the sole crossing into Gaza.
Egypt soldiers killed in Sinai ambush
At least 25 troops killed after rocket-propelled grenades strike buses near Rafah, officials say.

This is the deadliest attack on Egyptian soldiers since August 2013, when 25 Egyptian soldiers were killed in the border city of Rafah while returning home to their families for a holiday.

In July 2014, 21 soldiers were killed in an attack reportedly carried out by arms smugglers in Egypt’s Farafra Oasis near Libya.

In August 2012, another deadly attack killed 16 Egyptian soldiers in Rafah as they were breaking their Ramadan fast during sunset.
31 Egyptian Soldiers Killed in Two Sinai Attacks



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So by the same logic You imply towards Israel,

Are the Gazan's also occupied by Egypt, and should Gazan's vote in their elections as well?

Administration is not governing. The WB, Gaza and East Jerusalem are under Israeli military occupation and the WB and East Jerusalem are under Israeli martial law. And before you ask, yes Gaza is occupied pursuant to the ICJ with the Nuremburg Trials "Hostages Case" as precedent.

 

[rylah]

Is Gaza under Egyptian occupation as well because it controls its' border with Hamas?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The official indicated that “the Egyptian authorities also requested the presence of Palestinian presidential guards along the border strip separating Gaza and Egypt,

The presidential guard is an illegal entity.

 

[rylah]

The official indicated that “the Egyptian authorities also requested the presence of Palestinian presidential guards along the border strip separating Gaza and Egypt,

The presidential guard is an illegal entity.

When when was the last time Hamas let people vote?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The official indicated that “the Egyptian authorities also requested the presence of Palestinian presidential guards along the border strip separating Gaza and Egypt,

The presidential guard is an illegal entity.

When when was the last time Hamas let people vote?

It is up to the president to call elections. Abbas' term expired in Jan. of 2009. According to their constitution, the speaker of parliament is to temporarily assume the office of president and call for elections within 60 days. Abbas/US/Israel will not allow that to happen.

It is not about Hamas.

 

[montelatici]

Is Gaza under Egyptian occupation as well because it controls its' border with Hamas?

No, as explained in the ICJ opinion. Egypt keeps the border closed to do the bidding of Israel and the U.S. When the only democratically elected leader of Egypt (Morsi) declared that he intended to open the Gaza the U.S. Congress threatened to cut aid to Egypt. Morsi was removed in a coup so the border remained open for just a short time.

ICJ Opinion


"28. Although it no longer maintains a military presence in Gaza, Israel has not only shown the ability to conduct incursions into Gaza at will, but also expressly reserved the right to do so as required by military necessity. This consideration is potentially significant considering that there is support in international case law for the conclusion that it is not a prerequisite that a State maintain continuous presence in a territory in order to qualify as an occupying power. In particular, the ICTY has held that the law of occupation would also apply to areas where a state possesses “the capacity to send troops within a reasonable time to make the authority of the occupying power felt.” In this respect, it is also noted that the geographic proximity of the Gaza Strip to Israel potentially facilitates the ability of Israel to exercise effective control over the territory, despite the lack of a continuous military presence.

29. Overall, there is a reasonable basis upon which to conclude that Israel continues to be an occupying power in Gaza despite the 2005 disengagement. The Office has therefore proceeded on the basis that the situation in Gaza can be considered within the framework of an international armed conflict in view of the continuing military occupation by Israel."

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