New Improved Hockey Stick?

[westwall]

Westwall -

What people experienced under dictatorship depends on who they were. Many people lived maginficent lives under Stalin - the inner circle lived a life of luxury and endless dinner parties, and under Hitler even more so. The aristocracy prospered under Hitler, and suffered under Stalin. Poles suffered under Hitler, Azeris thrived under Stalin.

If you want to compare the lives of 'ordinary' people under both leaders, then you need to define who the 'ordinary' people were.

Six percent of the population (5.5 million or so) of Germany were members of the NAZI Party. The communist party under Stalin had an interesting history..by the early 1930's there were around three and a half million of them. Then Stalin went berserk and killed them off till by the end of the decade the membership was down to less than two million, so less than ONE PERCENT of the population were members of the ruling class.

Those that survived did well I grant you that, but isn't that true with all governmental systems? The difference of course, is that in an individualist government ANYONE can earn their way into the ruling class. In a collectivist society it is nearly impossible.

 

[polarbear]

Westwall -

What people experienced under dictatorship depends on who they were. Many people lived maginficent lives under Stalin - the inner circle lived a life of luxury and endless dinner parties, and under Hitler even more so. The aristocracy prospered under Hitler, and suffered under Stalin. Poles suffered under Hitler, Azeris thrived under Stalin.

If you want to compare the lives of 'ordinary' people under both leaders, then you need to define who the 'ordinary' people were.

Six percent of the population (5.5 million or so) of Germany were members of the NAZI Party. The communist party under Stalin had an interesting history..by the early 1930's there were around three and a half million of them. Then Stalin went berserk and killed them off till by the end of the decade the membership was down to less than two million, so less than ONE PERCENT of the population were members of the ruling class.

Those that survived did well I grant you that, but isn't that true with all governmental systems? The difference of course, is that in an individualist government ANYONE can earn their way into the ruling class. In a collectivist society it is nearly impossible.

I just got back from Portage and had some coffee with some of my friends who came to Canada from the Ukraine and by coincidence Stalin came up as a conversation topic.
Because the entire Wikipedia page about Stalin has been re-written, edited and whitewashed. One of my friends is a retired history professor and he is really pissed off.
For example:
According to Wiki, Stalin now was a hero fighting against the Tsar and the mug shot that used to be in Wikipedia after Stalin who was just a common hoodlum was arrested and convicted for a bank robbery:

The mugshot caption has been changed to:

Prior to the revolution of 1917, Stalin played an active role in fighting the tsarist government. Here he is shown on a 1911 information card from the files of the Tsarist secret police in Saint Petersburg.

And on and on.
In fact Stalin was a drunk, a thief, a murderer, a wife abuser, and even laughed when his son tried to kill himself
Stalin laughed""He can't even shoot straight"
Stalin`s son Yakov was a General in Stalin`s Red Army. The Germans captured him and Hitler offered to release Yakov in return for Field Marshal Paulus who had been captured in Stalingrad.
First Stalin denied having a son..and later turned down the offer saying he will not trade a Field Marshal for a General.
When Yakov got wind of it, that Germany wanted to return him to the Soviets he ran into the POW camp`s electric fence and committed suicide.
A Stalin biographer Isaac Deutscher wrote that Stalin`s second wife committed suicide because he was a notorious wife abuser.
Her mistake was that she spoke out against Stalin`s brutality against Russian dissidents. Stalin screamed and threatened her
She killed herself in November 1932 knowing full well what Stalin has in store for anyone who dared criticize him.
The list of Stalin`s purges is far too long to list here.
They range from the Jewish purge after Stalin insisted there was a "Jewish Doctor Conspiracy" to poison him to the Holodomor which wiped out way over 10 million Russians. No one can get an accurate number, but after Glasnost the Soviets admitted that Stalin`s Gulags were the systemic extermination camps that he accused Hitler of operating in Poland.
The strange thing about that is that the only "Extermination Camps" found after the war were all liberated by the Soviets and they did not allow any inspection by their Western Allies...till 10 years after the war.
In none of the concentration camps the Western Allies liberated were any gas chambers or mass cremation ovens...or "burning pits".
It took Gorbachev to finally admit that the infamous "Katyn Massacre" where all these Polish Officers were slaughtered and buried in the woods was by direct order of Stalin and that Hitler had nothing to do with it...as the Soviet Prosecutors insisted during the Nuernberg War Crime trials.
Germans still have to pay "Wiedergutmachungs" money to the tune of billions since the war ended to Jews....But only West Germany.
Not a single dime was demanded from the Soviet occupied part of Germany
..not even later when it became a communist Soviet Union Satellite State the "DDR"...and Russia never paid a red cent nor has it ever even offered an apology for the systematic mass extermination it carried out under Stalin....and never intend to..!!! It would tarnish Marxism, Socialism and the entire left wing agenda no matter what name they fancy to call themselves.
While "Saigon" the "Azi" from Azerbaijan posing as a "well educated Finnish Journalist living in Finland" is posting:

What people experienced under dictatorship depends on who they were. Many people lived maginficent lives under Stalin - the inner circle lived a life of luxury and endless dinner parties, and under Hitler even more so. The aristocracy prospered under Hitler, and suffered under Stalin. Poles suffered under Hitler, Azeris thrived under Stalin.

Only somebody who is from Azerbaijan where "Azis"lived a "maginficent" life while Stalin was in power would be so obtuse to praise a scumbag like Stalin.
The only difference between Nazis and Azis is the "N" as in NS which is National Socialism instead of just Socialism.
He is a Nazi minus the "N" from "Azi" living in the U.S. on food stamps and welfare, admires Obama and Stalin and said so himself.

 

[polarbear]

Westwall -

What people experienced under dictatorship depends on who they were. Many people lived maginficent lives under Stalin - the inner circle lived a life of luxury and endless dinner parties, and under Hitler even more so. The aristocracy prospered under Hitler, and suffered under Stalin. Poles suffered under Hitler, Azeris thrived under Stalin.

If you want to compare the lives of 'ordinary' people under both leaders, then you need to define who the 'ordinary' people were.

Six percent of the population (5.5 million or so) of Germany were members of the NAZI Party. The communist party under Stalin had an interesting history..by the early 1930's there were around three and a half million of them. Then Stalin went berserk and killed them off till by the end of the decade the membership was down to less than two million, so less than ONE PERCENT of the population were members of the ruling class.

Those that survived did well I grant you that, but isn't that true with all governmental systems? The difference of course, is that in an individualist government ANYONE can earn their way into the ruling class. In a collectivist society it is nearly impossible.

Westwall
Noticed, all these warmers are lefties and every time they are confronted with inconvenient facts or a pointed question they change the topic or accuse somebody to be "right wing" fanatic with all sorts of other insults attached.
It`s the same thing and all the same tactics in all the threads under "Environment" and if you confront them in a Politics thread with facts out comes the Environment and the "Environment crimes" we "right wing fanatics" are committing.
See what I mean:

I remember sitting on a hilltop at 0200 in Germany in February pulling SOG when the temp was about 10 degrees and the wind was howling. I don't think I had much of a sense of humor then, either.

There seem to be about 40 definitions for SOG, including Son of God, son of a gun, stroke of genius, same old grind....none seem to fit

10 degrees Fahrenheit or Celcius?

Just curious.

Can`t you think for yourself? How hard could it be to figure out what he was saying...or are you pretending that you don`t know ?
Just like in "I`ts hard to wake up those who pretend to sleep"
If people like you would look around instead of burying your head up your own ass you would realize what`s going on.
This is not just "a cold day in Wasawasa" like the warm.org blogs like to call it...it`s a world wide climate event that spans the entire winter season for the last decade....getting colder,starting earlier and lasting longer each year...not just in Canada but round the entire globe north of lat 48 deg.

Translated quote:

Snowball instead of football

Schneechaos und Flutgefahr nach Wintereinbruch in Großbritannien -Video - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Snow chaos in Great Britain
All flights are cancelled. Massive power failures....etc etc

Europeans have been trying to Google for up to date satellite images...there are none. So Canadian Astronaut Chris Hadfield snapped some pictures for them from the international space station and uploaded them:
Astronaut Chris Hadfield macht von der ISS aus Fotos von Deutschland - SPIEGEL ONLINE

About that hilltop in Germany where you cynically remarked "was that F or C degrees"
In Dawson City, Yukon Territory a prospector from San Francisco scrawled on his cabin wall where he froze to death:
"The coldest winter I ever experienced was a foggy summer day on the Golden Gate bridge"
I`ve been all the way up North and stood on the North Pole, way down south too and also stood the Golden Bridge...and know what he meant. I don`t have to ask a dumb- liberal-smart-ass question like that.
I would like to see how long you would last in a T-shirt on the bridge when the fog rolls in the bay.
I could not do it and neither could you..but I could chop kindling at -45 C in the Yukon at -45 C when the air is bone dry...no problem.

In the end I was a:

And your attack was completely unwarranted and way out of proportion to anything in my post. And, I don't need to tell you exactly where I lived or prove anything to you.
It's hard to believe you are anything but 100% American, calling me paranoid, getting so worked up about this, homophobic, being so against 'liberals.' I certainly never dealt with anyone like you in either country.

Now I`m a 100% typical (right wing) American who is "angry", homophobic, and I`m "attacking people" ...
And all that because I asked for some details that did not add up.
Liberals don`t have to prove anything and if you question it they are ready to call 911 because it was an "unwarranted attack"



Trying to suck me in, with the typical product of left wing brainwashed high school "educated" childish debating tactics they all use.
Like comparing Stalin with Hitler, dumped on us "Right wing conservatives" like the Queen of Spades in a game of hearts and praising Stalin over Hitler hoping you swallow the bait and if you say Stalin was worse...ipso facto you are a dumb Nazi "living in the past"
and would have no idea about modern technology or understand "climate science"
Works like that even during election campaigning and the debates.
Corner a Democrat with economic facts and if you are a Christian Republican he will switch the topic to gay and abortion rights....and if you disagree you will be a racist, homophobic in essence a Nazi by your "own admission"
Corner a Democrat on Beghazi and he will switch the topic to gay and abortion rights...and if you disagree you will be a racist, homophobic in essence a Nazi by your "own admission"
Corner a Democrat on immigration legislation he will switch the topic to gay and abortion rights...and if you disagree you will be a racist, homophobic in essence a Nazi by your "own admission"
Corner a Democrat on balancing the budget he will switch the topic to gay and abortion rights...and if you disagree you will be a racist, homophobic in essence a Nazi by your "own admission"
Corner a Democrat regarding energy or environment with unpleasant facts he will switch the topic to gay and abortion rights...and if you disagree you will be a racist, homophobic in essence a Nazi by your "own admission"

It`s about time we stick both Hitler and Stalin up their gay Democratic asses because they have more in common with both or either than Republicans ever did or ever will with Hitler or the Nazis.
All we have to do is quote "Saigon" from Finland

Did you know thatJews could avoid deportation from Germany proper if they volunteered for sterilization and or abortions..and many did.
Most of that was done by their own Jewish doctors...one of them was the legendary Doctor Morgenthaler who later opened Canada`s first abortion clinics in Canada while abortion was still a criminal offense.
I got files to back that up on an old hard drive and should dig it up again.
I got interested in Morgenthaler because he and his brother were in a Dachau Satellite "KL Kaufering" just outside my home town Landsberg and
the guards from Kaufering were still alive and kicking when I asked them what Morgenthaler was doing there.
He was not a "slave the Nazis almost worked to death" as he claimed when he immigrated to Canada
Now he`s got franchises across Canada. Our Socialized Health Care System still pays for abortions even though the Liberals are swept from power...and these abortion clinics are still exempt from the law which demands that all public expenditures are listed publicly.
I had a Xerox copy in my desk drawer and scanned/uploaded it
It`s a German newspaper (1944) clipping from the advertising pages:

See all these Jewish Doctors:
Berlin Essen Cologne...every city..!!! from one end of Germany to the other...while Stalin at the same time claimed there is a "Jewish Doctor conspiracy to poison him" had Jews with a medical degree rounded up and then they vanished in his Gulgas for good
Not so by Hitler, Eichmann ( who actually spoke fluent yiddish and was hiding our for a couple of years in a Kibbutz in Israel) or Heydrich in Germany. ! For Example Dr.Fanz Israel Meyer..
exclusively authorized (by the Nazis) to "behandeln" = treat Jews in his medical praxis at Charlottenburg Caremr Street #5 complete with his phone number.
I singled him out because he has been tracked down sucking money out of Germany as a "concentration camp survivor".
Most of the Jewish Dentists like Ernst Meyer in Cologne (bottom right) were busy extracting gold teeth from the "Jewish emergency deposit box for a rainy day" and everybody in the Gestapo knew it...it was a joke that later came back to haunt Germans who allegedly gassed Jews and ripped out their gold teeth.
Anyway...after WW2 there was a shitload of Jewish Doctors like Henry Morgenthaler, skilled and specialized in abortions that came to North America...
...it was a bunch of hammers for want of defenseless little nailheads...
They got it in Canada after the Liberals and New Democrats were in power and now in the U.S. with Obama in the white House and his "Health Care system"
If you want more I`ve got a whole hard drive full of documents courtesy of some SS that were not guilty of anything but being German and a member of an elite fighting force.
Might come in handy some day I thought when they offered me these files..
Just found another one:

September 1941, Jews still had their own newspapers "The Jewish News Page" Head office Oranienburg Street #4, Berlin complete with a bank account number
to accept wired money for subscriptions... 75 cents for 3 Months and for ad placements which had a printing press deadline each Monday at 17:00
Stalin would have never allowed his arch enemies to have their own news paper in the Soviet Union.
In the US democrats already want to expel students from Harvard if they admit being Republicans and watch Fox News.
And the Wisconsin teacher`s alliance want "white privileged kids" to wear a white armbands signifying shame, much like the star of David Jews had to wear...just because the parents of these kids in Wisconsin did not vote for a Democrat when the teachers Union & other public sector unions wanted to recall Rep. Governor Walker and failed.

Democrats have a lot in common with the Nazis and the Soviets

I uploaded just a fraction of what I got on that hard drive to a server in San Francisco. The bullet proof server denied all access to Frau Merkel`s neo-communist ex Soviet State security police.
Yes the German Neo Nazis had a field day with that stuff and from there it went to every Neo-Nazi web page / forum around the world
It took Obama to become president and one single request from the German Police was enough to get the names of all German citizens who paid for that server where that stuff was stored to get arrested and prosecuted "for diminishing the Nazi crimes".
No kidding:
Let me google that for you
There was no hacking involved ...I know that for sure from the horse`s mouth
Now the resurrected Gestapo wants the names of American citizens who have actively participated with that server so they can arrest them should they ever set foot on German soil.
They can`t get what they want from Canada, because none of that stuff is a crime here and the Government of Canada has to notify it`s citizens on request if a foreign country, where you are planning to travel has made a request to arrest a Canadian citizen or has demanded information about him/her for something which is in our bill of rights.
That was after what`s his Name "Zuendel" ...the German Government lied to the Canadian Gov. claiming he was a "terrorist"...and had him deported
Later our foreign affairs dep. found out that they declared a political party which was legally elected into Parliament retro-actively as a "Terrorist Organization" .
Zuendel was a party member years before that and had immigrated to Canada where he wrote some "holocaust denial" books.
It became a political scandal and our bill of rights had to be re-defined by our supreme court to prevent such a swindle again.
I almost got nailed but I got tipped off and am not going there for a vacation any time soon.
While Obama wants the authority to kill Americans on American soil without a trial if he or his administration suspects that person had something to do with another person in another country that deems that person`s action as terrorism.
The constitution ?
None of that matters to Obama and the democrats...they really don`t give a shit about the constitution and and Merkel`s Gestapo got the entire list of names Americans or not who had any data traffic with that server.
2 years ago the Obama admin demanded that Canada hand over all information, including credit card info of all passengers that fly over U.S air space even if it`s a non stopper in the U.S. and heading to Asia.
Canada declined !..and our impotent "Yankee" hating New Democratic Party howled in protest...that`s the same party who`s leader just visited Nancy Pelosi and Obama and told them that Canadians are against the Keystone pipeline.
One more time:
Democrats have a lot in common with the Nazis and the Soviets...but the latter 2 did not conceal their agenda
Now you know why I despise all 3 of them

 

[Saigon]

Six percent of the population (5.5 million or so) of Germany were members of the NAZI Party. The communist party under Stalin had an interesting history..by the early 1930's there were around three and a half million of them. Then Stalin went berserk and killed them off till by the end of the decade the membership was down to less than two million, so less than ONE PERCENT of the population were members of the ruling class.

Those that survived did well I grant you that, but isn't that true with all governmental systems? The difference of course, is that in an individualist government ANYONE can earn their way into the ruling class. In a collectivist society it is nearly impossible.

Yes, and this is a good point. Within ANY regime there will be an inner circle, but it's a sode of Stalin's Russia we tend not to think about. In Montefiore's book I was amazed to read about these ladies tottering about Red Square in heels and evening gowns, tipping back red wine.

Access to the inner circle was opposite, as it would be in left & right wing regimes. In Hitler's case it was the Aristocracy, the old money, the shareholders and investors who came to dinner. In Russia it was the obsequious, often racial minorites and those with something to hide. For instance, Molotov's wife was Jewish, and fact Stalin reminded him of it frequently. It was a weakness that kept Molotov's ambitions in check.

 

[westwall]

Six percent of the population (5.5 million or so) of Germany were members of the NAZI Party. The communist party under Stalin had an interesting history..by the early 1930's there were around three and a half million of them. Then Stalin went berserk and killed them off till by the end of the decade the membership was down to less than two million, so less than ONE PERCENT of the population were members of the ruling class.

Those that survived did well I grant you that, but isn't that true with all governmental systems? The difference of course, is that in an individualist government ANYONE can earn their way into the ruling class. In a collectivist society it is nearly impossible.

Yes, and this is a good point. Within ANY regime there will be an inner circle, but it's a sode of Stalin's Russia we tend not to think about. In Montefiore's book I was amazed to read about these ladies tottering about Red Square in heels and evening gowns, tipping back red wine.

Access to the inner circle was opposite, as it would be in left & right wing regimes. In Hitler's case it was the Aristocracy, the old money, the shareholders and investors who came to dinner. In Russia it was the obsequious, often racial minorites and those with something to hide. For instance, Molotov's wife was Jewish, and fact Stalin reminded him of it frequently. It was a weakness that kept Molotov's ambitions in check.

Who cares about the ruling class. I care about the poor people (you know, the 99% in Stalins world) and they are the ones who suffer most in a collectivist government. 60 to 80 million were murdered by your hero Stalin.

 

[Saigon]

your hero Stalin.

Really, what a silly little child you are.