New Age Movement/Medicine -Satanic false religion

[DKSuddeth]

NG, I disagree that one could lose their salvation by a channeling experience. While I certainly agree that such an action is sinful and expressly forbidden by God, I don't think that if a Christian participated in it (out of ignorance, for example) that they would then be unsaved. Moreover, if the Holy Spirit dwells in a Christian, then how could a demon or unclean spirit indwell the same person? The only way I could see it happening is if the person renounced Christ, in which case it would not be a case of channeling causing the loss of salvation, it would be a case of flat-out denial of the faith.

would not faith healers, like the evangelicals, be considered in the same group then?

 

[HGROKIT]

...if the Holy Spirit dwells in a Christian, then how could a demon or unclean spirit indwell the same person?

Somewhat off topic Jeff, but I think what you are describing occurs in Christians everyday. Do we not always struggle with right and wrong? Evil is out there and within and we do battle with it on a daily basis.

 

[NewGuy]

No, one can manipulate. One cannot 'override'. Its not replacing my energy with theirs.

You should define "manipulate" then. If it involves "energy transfer" then IS one overlapping another by nature of how energy works.

By this definition alone, you've just accused jesus christ of opening up the possibility of demon possesion. I also said that one cannot 'override' another and manipulating energies is not opening a channel to the netherworld.

Nope.

I have opened the door to the understanding that Jesus can reside IN you in a similar manner to how one opens themselves up to demon posession. IF you want to consider Christ a demon, that is against Biblical teaching and totally false.

If you want to consider "Spirits" or demons in the same league as Christ that is also false and against scripture.

 

[NewGuy]

It was simply my way of beginning a discussion---I asked a question.

OH I get it----you wanted someone to make a statement that you could use as a foil to prove your agenda.

If you cannot afford a clue, one will be appointed to you.

Just sit back and wait.

 

[NewGuy]

NG, I disagree that one could lose their salvation by a channeling experience. While I certainly agree that such an action is sinful and expressly forbidden by God, I don't think that if a Christian participated in it (out of ignorance, for example) that they would then be unsaved. Moreover, if the Holy Spirit dwells in a Christian, then how could a demon or unclean spirit indwell the same person? The only way I could see it happening is if the person renounced Christ, in which case it would not be a case of channeling causing the loss of salvation, it would be a case of flat-out denial of the faith.

Jeff, you then have an issue.

If you turn from Christ and allow a spirit to inhabit your body knowingly, you have consciously made yourself commit the unpardonable sin.

There is no salvation for willingly turning from Christ. It requires recommitment. Also, if a non-believer becomes possesed, it is an incredible amount of work to become saved as their thinking and behavior bcomes murky.

Therefore you DO have risk of losing a potential salvation.

 

[NewGuy]

would not faith healers, like the evangelicals, be considered in the same group then?

Somewhat.

They heal in the name of Christ by means other than Christ.

Jesus never stood on a stage to heal, and He DID proclaim many would do miracles in His name, yet He would not know them.

In other words, just because miracles are present, it doesn't mean God did them.

 

[dilloduck]

Ergo------don't go to a faith healer because it can be dangerous to your soul

 

[NewGuy]

Ergo------don't go to a faith healer because it can be dangerous to your soul

Bingo.

-Not to mention your physical and mental health.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Interesting topic. Even if New Age medicine does not actually have scientifically quantifiable effects on human health, there is of little doubt on the postive effects on happiness and comfort usually associated with many of "the healings". The "placebo effect" is a well-documented treatment where if the person believe he or she is being healed, the body tends to respond to augment the healing or functionability of the said person.

While I certainly wouldn't put my, call it faith, in replacing modern medicine with these practices, there is of little doubt that there are medical processes of which science cannot or have not documented as of yet. Having had family and friends "treated" and well, healed, by these techniques I cannot, myself, dismiss them outright. As such, I am open to the idea of new age medicines as long is it does conflict with treatment with traditional western care.

I cannot comment on the said inherint "goodness" or "evilness" or such practices in the Christian context for obvious reasons, but it seems to me that people doing the treating are in it to at least trying to help people get better, such as healing by prayer (successfully or not). To me that doesn't seem like a very "evil" act.

 

[DKSuddeth]

You should define "manipulate" then. If it involves "energy transfer" then IS one overlapping another by nature of how energy works.

sorry for the miscommunication. 'manipulation' was not meant to mean transfer. there is no exchange of energy at all.

Nope.

I have opened the door to the understanding that Jesus can reside IN you in a similar manner to how one opens themselves up to demon posession. IF you want to consider Christ a demon, that is against Biblical teaching and totally false.

If you want to consider "Spirits" or demons in the same league as Christ that is also false and against scripture.

I may be just overly tired, but I can't help but see a contradiction in what you've just said.

 

[dilloduck]

DAMN---and I thought all those dudes who smacked someone on the head head and said "HEAL" were the real thing !!!

 

[DKSuddeth]

Somewhat.

They heal in the name of Christ by means other than Christ.

Jesus never stood on a stage to heal, and He DID proclaim many would do miracles in His name, yet He would not know them.

In other words, just because miracles are present, it doesn't mean God did them.

I've met alot of 'newage' healers, some of them obviously false, but most of them have a belief in god and use their healing with that belief. they don't say 'I heal you in the name of jesus' and all, but they hold to that faith. Does that make a difference?

 

[NewGuy]

Interesting topic. Even if New Age medicine does not actually have scientifically quantifiable effects on human health, there is of little doubt on the postive effects on happiness and comfort usually associated with many of "the healings". The "placebo effect" is a well-documented treatment where if the person believe he or she is being healed, the body tends to respond to augment the healing or functionability of the said person.

Agreed.

-But this is not dependable nor certain either.

While I certainly wouldn't put my, call it faith, in replacing modern medicine with these practices, there is of little doubt that there are medical processes of which science cannot or have not documented as of yet.

I think it would be safer to say "medical community" instead of "science". The medical community is no longer "science", it is politics -at least in America.

As far as proven scientific methods of healing, herbs and Chinese medicine, as mentioned already fit the category you refer to. America rejects both as a general rule and only rarely do you see herbs allowed, but that is starting to change.

Having had family and friends "treated" and well, healed, by these techniques I cannot, myself, dismiss them outright. As such, I am open to the idea of new age medicines as long is it does conflict with treatment with traditional western care.

New age is the "spirituality" thing. If you do the research, you will find "feeling good" is not healing.

I cannot comment on the said inherint "goodness" or "evilness" or such practices in the Christian context for obvious reasons, but it seems to me that people doing the treating are in it to at least trying to help people get better, such as healing by prayer (successfully or not). To me that doesn't seem like a very "evil" act.

The act IS evil when the person doing the healing is involved with allowing outside forces into another when those forces are supernatural and should not be there. Just because they make someone feel good, doesn't mean they should be there.

After all, should you do PCP and alcohol because you "feel good"?

 

[NewGuy]

sorry for the miscommunication. 'manipulation' was not meant to mean transfer. there is no exchange of energy at all.

In the case of the manipulation you would refer to, how would energy be manipulated without induction then?

I may be just overly tired, but I can't help but see a contradiction in what you've just said.

Show me.

I am always up to seeing flaws in my logic.

 

[NewGuy]

I've met alot of 'newage' healers, some of them obviously false, but most of them have a belief in god and use their healing with that belief. they don't say 'I heal you in the name of jesus' and all, but they hold to that faith. Does that make a difference?

Define.

Are you refering to medical practicioners with drugs or are you referring to something else?

 

[DKSuddeth]

In the case of the manipulation you would refer to, how would energy be manipulated without induction then?

its my understanding that energetic forces have effects on other energetic forces, kind of like magnets and/or electricity. So if I manipulate my energy to affect the manipulation of anothers theres no transfer as in my soul or spirit entering yours.

Show me.

I am always up to seeing flaws in my logic.

you said this: "I have opened the door to the understanding that Jesus can reside IN you in a similar manner to how one opens themselves up to demon posession."

and then this: "If you want to consider "Spirits" or demons in the same league as Christ that is also false and against scripture."

Not that I considered them in the same league, but are they both not spirits that can exert influence over us if we let it?

again, maybe i'm just too tired right now and will have to look at it later.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Define.

Are you refering to medical practicioners with drugs or are you referring to something else?

I've met both. Licensed doctors that also use energetics in combination with traditional and homeopathic as well as people who are 'spiritual' healers.

 

[NewGuy]

its my understanding that energetic forces have effects on other energetic forces, kind of like magnets and/or electricity. So if I manipulate my energy to affect the manipulation of anothers theres no transfer as in my soul or spirit entering yours.

The fields of electricity and energy sciences including magnetism dictate that the only way any energy may affect another is by direct contact and overlapping. This can be called being in or out "of sync" or "of phase" or it can be called "induction".

ANY energy touching another and causing a change of effect can ONLY be done by induction. -The act of overlapping one with another.

Any science book on the topic of electricity can show proof of that.

you said this: "I have opened the door to the understanding that Jesus can reside IN you in a similar manner to how one opens themselves up to demon posession."

and then this: "If you want to consider "Spirits" or demons in the same league as Christ that is also false and against scripture."

Not that I considered them in the same league, but are they both not spirits that can exert influence over us if we let it?

again, maybe i'm just too tired right now and will have to look at it later.

You are correct. They are. The difference is that one offers salvation and chooses NOT to exert control. The other exerts control and DOES NOT OFFER SALVATION.

I don't view that as contradiction at all.

 

[dilloduck]

Agreed.

-But this is not dependable nor certain either.



I think it would be safer to say "medical community" instead of "science". The medical community is no longer "science", it is politics -at least in America.

As far as proven scientific methods of healing, herbs and Chinese medicine, as mentioned already fit the category you refer to. America rejects both as a general rule and only rarely do you see herbs allowed, but that is starting to change.



New age is the "spirituality" thing. If you do the research, you will find "feeling good" is not healing.



The act IS evil when the person doing the healing is involved with allowing outside forces into another when those forces are supernatural and should not be there. Just because they make someone feel good, doesn't mean they should be there.

After all, should you do PCP and alcohol because you "feel good"?

Unless you can be more specific about the type of spiritual, I would simply call this type a scam to convert non-believers. Anyone who told me that they could put a demon in me would also be a charlatan.

People use mind altering drugs sometimes because it's a way to alter your state of consciousness with very little effort.

 

[NewGuy]

I've met both. Licensed doctors that also use energetics in combination with traditional and homeopathic as well as people who are 'spiritual' healers.

In context to your question, you have to seperate the two as the topic distinguishes the two then.

If faith of a practicioner is combined with a pill or drug that is fine as long as no ritual or spiritual transfer goes from the practicioner to patient.

If a practicioner decides to meditate and lay hands on a person who is told to relax and accept the feelings or transfer of energies, or whatever, now you have a whole different issue.