Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
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Neo-Cons, Answer Me This...
- Thread starter MarcATL
- Start date
Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
Also read this: Wolfowitz Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you believe in any of this, you are a neocon...
From your link...
"One of the primary tasks we face today in shaping the future is carrying long standing alliances into the new era, and turning old enmities into new cooperative relationships. If we and other leading democracies continue to build a democratic security community, a much safer world is likely to emerge. If we act separately, many other problems could result."
Sounds very much in line with the United Nations concept.
To say nothing of the Obama White House...
We can all cherry pick. Do you want me to as well? There's plenty in there that spans the current definition of the term (and yes, it has been bastardised since Kristol laid claim to the term - live with it)....
____
You now turn your back on your own words - and so quickly!!
perhaps i can help. the PNAC was pretty clear about what a neoconservative's goals are in it's letter to bill clinton in 1998.
PNAC letters sent to President Bill Clinton
Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
nah...sorry...there's nothing you ever say that's true or accurate.
good luck yourself. you should at least have the class to say you're out of your league, you've been outclassed and don't know what you're talking abut.
Also read this: Wolfowitz Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you believe in any of this, you are a neocon...
___
And again from your link...
The United States is committed to the security of Israel and to maintaining the qualitative edge that is critical to Israel's security.
Again, very much in line with the Obama campaign...
- Aug 10, 2009
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You are isolating a concept that has been part of American foreign policy since 1948? Really?
Tom Clancy
Clancy for Ron Paul
Hey Einstein...you can't have the man presiding over the worst terrorist attack in the country ever and "he kept us safe" in the same sentence...EVER. No matter if it was 1, 2, 3 or 100 years apart, before or after.
If the dunce actually "kept us safe" 9/11 would NOT have occurred.
Capice?
If you actually knew your history you would see that Clintons Defense Spending Cut actually made us Weaker.. And 9/11 happened 8 months after he was in Power.. so..
Also, i said 7 years not 8.. So, looks like you can't read.
But, you still haven't actually understood the difference between a Conservative and a Neo-Con.. Because if you did, you wouldn't be calling me a Neo-Con..
perhaps i can help. the PNAC was pretty clear about what a neoconservative's goals are in it's letter to bill clinton in 1998.
PNAC letters sent to President Bill Clinton
Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
nah...sorry...there's nothing you ever say that's true or accurate.
good luck yourself. you should at least have the class to say you're out of your league, you've been outclassed and don't know what you're talking abut.
I am sorry to see you failing to explore a subject you yourself have brought up.
Here's a bit of help on this fascinating and complicated subject that joins a philisophical string that remains highly influential within the current White House...
____
PNAC. What informed American hasn't heard of the treacherous Project for a New American Century by now?
PNAC is a small off-shoot, occupying the 5th floor, of the American Enterprise Institute which has been around since 1943. The AEI has 12 very busy floors where its operative have had plenty of time to send their operatives over to infiltrate the Democratic Party, or leave them in to be more accurate since the PNACers & AEIers are ORIGINALLY DEMOCRATS. To this day Richard Perle, Fieth and Wolfowitz are still Democrats. The day the Republican party, which they hijacked also, no longer suits their needs, they'll follow other PNAC neo-cons like Marshall Wittman back to the Democratic Party where the neoliberal Democratic Leadership Council is laying out the welcome mat for them.
The AEI, the PNAC & the DLC were founded by Scoop Jackson democrats who follow the philosophy of Leo Strauss. To this day the DLC is stacked with neo-conservative ideologues, who maintain deep personal ties to the war-mongers in the Bush Administration.
DLC PNAC
You are isolating a concept that has been part of American foreign policy since 1948? Really?
And yet the original poster placed that concept as "neocon".
Thus, they are either incorrect in doing so, or failed to understand what they were orginally posting - something you failed to recognize as well...
- Aug 10, 2009
- 168,037
- 16,519
- 2,165
- Banned
- #149
Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
nah...sorry...there's nothing you ever say that's true or accurate.
good luck yourself. you should at least have the class to say you're out of your league, you've been outclassed and don't know what you're talking abut.
I am sorry to see you failing to explore a subject you yourself have brought up.
Here's a bit of help on this fascinating and complicated subject that joins a philisophical string that remains highly influential within the current White House...
____
PNAC. What informed American hasn't heard of the treacherous Project for a New American Century by now?
PNAC is a small off-shoot, occupying the 5th floor, of the American Enterprise Institute which has been around since 1943. The AEI has 12 very busy floors where its operative have had plenty of time to send their operatives over to infiltrate the Democratic Party, or leave them in to be more accurate since the PNACers & AEIers are ORIGINALLY DEMOCRATS. To this day Richard Perle, Fieth and Wolfowitz are still Democrats. The day the Republican party, which they hijacked also, no longer suits their needs, they'll follow other PNAC neo-cons like Marshall Wittman back to the Democratic Party where the neoliberal Democratic Leadership Council is laying out the welcome mat for them.
The AEI, the PNAC & the DLC were founded by Scoop Jackson democrats who follow the philosophy of Leo Strauss. To this day the DLC is stacked with neo-conservative ideologues, who maintain deep personal ties to the war-mongers in the Bush Administration.
DLC PNAC
Son, you haven't made any link to the Obama white house, though.
- Aug 19, 2008
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It is incredible how Conservatives (and I mean that term in the general sense) twist the arguments when they have no answer.
The original statement that started this threat pointed out the basic inconsistency between the conservative view that government is bad and the fact that they want to run the government.
The fact is that the original anti-government sentiments of the fore fathers of this country were founded upon anti-monarchist, not anti-democratic government.
In fact the monarchists having lost their power during the eighteenth and ninteenth centuries became the leading anti-government activists.
This is what is truly behind the current anti-government sentiment of todays conservatives:
A desire for the destruction of modern democracies and a return to the Tyranny of the wealthy.
The conservatives want to run government so that they can destroy it. They have perverted the meaning of the word 'freedom' to mean freedom of the wealthy, not the individual and personal freedoms in the Constitution.
The original statement that started this threat pointed out the basic inconsistency between the conservative view that government is bad and the fact that they want to run the government.
The fact is that the original anti-government sentiments of the fore fathers of this country were founded upon anti-monarchist, not anti-democratic government.
In fact the monarchists having lost their power during the eighteenth and ninteenth centuries became the leading anti-government activists.
This is what is truly behind the current anti-government sentiment of todays conservatives:
A desire for the destruction of modern democracies and a return to the Tyranny of the wealthy.
The conservatives want to run government so that they can destroy it. They have perverted the meaning of the word 'freedom' to mean freedom of the wealthy, not the individual and personal freedoms in the Constitution.
Ah, at least someone here is digging into the more recent neocon historical record! Now further your studies by delving into the Democrat Leadership Council, who are closely linked with PNAC.
Good luck!!
nah...sorry...there's nothing you ever say that's true or accurate.
good luck yourself. you should at least have the class to say you're out of your league, you've been outclassed and don't know what you're talking abut.
I am sorry to see you failing to explore a subject you yourself have brought up.
Here's a bit of help on this fascinating and complicated subject that joins a philisophical string that remains highly influential within the current White House...
____
PNAC. What informed American hasn't heard of the treacherous Project for a New American Century by now?
PNAC is a small off-shoot, occupying the 5th floor, of the American Enterprise Institute which has been around since 1943. The AEI has 12 very busy floors where its operative have had plenty of time to send their operatives over to infiltrate the Democratic Party, or leave them in to be more accurate since the PNACers & AEIers are ORIGINALLY DEMOCRATS. To this day Richard Perle, Fieth and Wolfowitz are still Democrats. The day the Republican party, which they hijacked also, no longer suits their needs, they'll follow other PNAC neo-cons like Marshall Wittman back to the Democratic Party where the neoliberal Democratic Leadership Council is laying out the welcome mat for them.
The AEI, the PNAC & the DLC were founded by Scoop Jackson democrats who follow the philosophy of Leo Strauss. To this day the DLC is stacked with neo-conservative ideologues, who maintain deep personal ties to the war-mongers in the Bush Administration.
DLC PNAC
And please note - this source is a bit "wacky", but the main players they are noting are in fact correct - and the source of the neocons being firmly planted in the still very much operational DLC...
From your link...
"One of the primary tasks we face today in shaping the future is carrying long standing alliances into the new era, and turning old enmities into new cooperative relationships. If we and other leading democracies continue to build a democratic security community, a much safer world is likely to emerge. If we act separately, many other problems could result."
Sounds very much in line with the United Nations concept.
To say nothing of the Obama White House...
We can all cherry pick. Do you want me to as well? There's plenty in there that spans the current definition of the term (and yes, it has been bastardised since Kristol laid claim to the term - live with it)....
____
You now turn your back on your own words - and so quickly!!
Not at all.
Are you saying the political philosophies of Wolfowitz, Pearle, Bennett et al are the same as Obama's? Are you really saying that? Think carefully before answering....
Last edited:
Rinata
Gold Member
- Oct 5, 2009
- 6,790
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- 153
You see guys...Jake is NOT a neo-con, so he's not busy defending Bush's litany of failures like the rest of you neo-cons. That's why you perceive, with your neo-con eyes and mind, that Jake must be a lefty, since he's not busy defending the neo-con Bush's litany of failures over the past 8 years.
Snap out of it!!!
Who is defending Bush's littany of failures?
And you have yet to give your own working definition of "neocon".
Once you have done so, apply it to the Obama administration and see how it has become infected with the same philosophy...
Still waiting.
Don't be so weak. You have had plenty of time to actually study up on the topic and now present some semblance of a coherent thought on the subject.
So tell us, what is your working definition of a "neocon"?
Get a load of you. Do you have a secret wish to teach school or something??? Is Jake gonna get a demerit for not doing what you say?? Geez, get a grip.
We can all cherry pick. Do you want me to as well? There's plenty in there that spans the current definition of the term (and yes, it has been bastardised since Kristol laid claim to the term - live with it)....
____
You now turn your back on your own words - and so quickly!!
Not at all.
Are you saying the political philosophies of Wolfowitz, Pearle, Bennett et al are the same as Obama? Are you really saying that? Think carefully before answering....
Don't be silly!
There is not all-encompassing shared values among anyone on that list! - Even among those you label as "neocons".
That is part of the point being made - in this thread the term neocon was being utilized without understanding, and thus, without merit...
From the Democrat Underground message board (interesting board that you should all check out!)
...Current PNAC members were proteges of Henry ("Scoop”
Jackson and Daniel Patrick (“Pat” Moynihan
“…look at the 1970s, when the neo-conservatives in the Democratic Party grouped themselves into the Coalition for a Democratic Majority (CDM). The CDM's two leading lights in Congress were the Democratic Senators Henry "Scoop" Jackson and Patrick Moynihan. The Cold Warrior and fanatically pro-Israel Jackson remains the model for the DLC crowd today. The DLC's former President, Sen. Joe Lieberman declares he is proud to be identified as a " 'Scoop' Jackson Democrat." It was these two Senators' offices that housed the Leo Straussian "Children of Satan" behind the no-exit Iraq War.
The DLC and PNAC share the same origin - Democratic Underground
...Current PNAC members were proteges of Henry ("Scoop”
Jackson and Daniel Patrick (“Pat” Moynihan“…look at the 1970s, when the neo-conservatives in the Democratic Party grouped themselves into the Coalition for a Democratic Majority (CDM). The CDM's two leading lights in Congress were the Democratic Senators Henry "Scoop" Jackson and Patrick Moynihan. The Cold Warrior and fanatically pro-Israel Jackson remains the model for the DLC crowd today. The DLC's former President, Sen. Joe Lieberman declares he is proud to be identified as a " 'Scoop' Jackson Democrat." It was these two Senators' offices that housed the Leo Straussian "Children of Satan" behind the no-exit Iraq War.
The DLC and PNAC share the same origin - Democratic Underground
I am sorry to see you failing to explore a subject you yourself have brought up.
Here's a bit of help on this fascinating and complicated subject that joins a philisophical string that remains highly influential within the current White House...
again...thanks anyway, but i don't need to explore your fallacies.
Now back in 2005 the Kos folks were up in arms over the neocon influence within Democrat Party circles. And despite DK's often silly leftist paranoia, on this occassion, they were very much in line with the actual truth...
[ continued ] ....After an initial spate of public pronouncements after September 11th and during the onset of the Iraq occupation, the Project for the New American Century is again positioning itself as the policy institute that will set the second Bush administration's security agenda. Although PNAC's 1997 statement of principles included only prominent right-wing figures--many of whom later joined the first Bush administration--the neocon policy institute has repeatedly reached out to liberals to give its public letters to the Congress and the president the gloss of bipartisanship....
Its new call for congressional leaders to increase overall U.S. troop levels includes endorsement of key liberal analysts. Among the signatories are the leading foreign policy analysts at the Brookings Institution and the Progressive Policy Institute, which are closely associated with the Democratic Party. The endorsees of the letter are largely neoconservatives who are principals in such neocon-led institutes as PNAC, American Enterprise Institute (AEI), Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and the Center for Security Policy. However, this call for a larger expeditionary force was also signed by prominent liberal hawks, including Michael O'Hanlon, Ivo Daalder, James Steinberg, and Will Marshall--all of whom have signed previous PNAC letters and policy statements.
Daily Kos: "Liberal hawks" join PNAC on military buildup
[ continued ] ....After an initial spate of public pronouncements after September 11th and during the onset of the Iraq occupation, the Project for the New American Century is again positioning itself as the policy institute that will set the second Bush administration's security agenda. Although PNAC's 1997 statement of principles included only prominent right-wing figures--many of whom later joined the first Bush administration--the neocon policy institute has repeatedly reached out to liberals to give its public letters to the Congress and the president the gloss of bipartisanship....
Its new call for congressional leaders to increase overall U.S. troop levels includes endorsement of key liberal analysts. Among the signatories are the leading foreign policy analysts at the Brookings Institution and the Progressive Policy Institute, which are closely associated with the Democratic Party. The endorsees of the letter are largely neoconservatives who are principals in such neocon-led institutes as PNAC, American Enterprise Institute (AEI), Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and the Center for Security Policy. However, this call for a larger expeditionary force was also signed by prominent liberal hawks, including Michael O'Hanlon, Ivo Daalder, James Steinberg, and Will Marshall--all of whom have signed previous PNAC letters and policy statements.
Daily Kos: "Liberal hawks" join PNAC on military buildup
And yet more DLC and PNAC information.
I am surprised the more liberal participants in here were not aware of this information, and the intertwining of the neocons within the Democrat Party...
___
It gets worse. Will Marshall, the DLC’s co-founder, signed a letter to George W. Bush supporting the invasion of Iraq written by the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) and The Progressive Police Institute, the DLC’s think tank, receives funding from the same sources that fund PNAC.
Radio Left :: Don't let the DLC suck the blood out of the Democratic Party
I am surprised the more liberal participants in here were not aware of this information, and the intertwining of the neocons within the Democrat Party...
___
It gets worse. Will Marshall, the DLC’s co-founder, signed a letter to George W. Bush supporting the invasion of Iraq written by the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) and The Progressive Police Institute, the DLC’s think tank, receives funding from the same sources that fund PNAC.
Radio Left :: Don't let the DLC suck the blood out of the Democratic Party
Harry, I side with correct reasoning and what's good for America. Neo-conservatism, preventive interventions outside of multilateral agreements with all our traditional allies (UK, France, and Great Britain), and a runaway health insurance industry are bad, bad, bad for America.
Are we clear on that?
Jake i have seen you side with Zona and Rdean many a time....and these guys are so far left they are splatters on the left field wall....Moderate Dems are Far Righties to these guys.....NO Conservative of any persusion would side with either one of them....the politics are just too far apart dude.....your serve...
- Aug 10, 2009
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And Sinatra still does not connect neo-conservatism to the Obama administration.
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