NATO summit

[Silver Cat]

What diplomatic solution was there?

Do what Putin wants, give up the Ukraine to Russia

Chamberlain would have done that.

Why not? Buy some time and use it wisely to become stronger, not weaker. Being simultaneously weak and aggressive is the direct way to a catastrophe.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why not? Buy some time and use it wisely to become stronger, not weaker. Being simultaneously weak and aggressive is the direct way to a catastrophe.

You act like Putin would be rational in all of this.

Putin wants the Ukraine, look at 2014, it shows he wanted it, he caused a "civil war" to keep going for years and years.
Biden couldn't be rational with that.

 

[Silver Cat]

You act like Putin would be rational in all of this.

It's not just Putin.

Putin wants the Ukraine, look at 2014, it shows he wanted it, he caused a "civil war" to keep going for years and years.
Biden couldn't be rational with that.

The situation is much more nuanced than that. Actually, the Russians captured Kiev first time in VIII or IX century and fought for it at least 6 big wars and in a great number of smaller conflicts. And it's not because they just irrationally love it. They have their reasons. It is vital for their security.

I don't say if POTUS should be rational or irrational, it's just above my pay rate. I say that it is dangerous to be simultaneously weak and aggressive. The Russians will fight for Kiev, if necessary - with nuclear weapons, and the USA isn't ready yet for such war.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's not just Putin.

The situation is much more nuanced than that. Actually, the Russians captured Kiev first time in VIII or IX century and fought for it at least 6 big wars and in a great number of smaller conflicts. And it's not because they just irrationally love it. They have their reasons. It is vital for their security.

I don't say if POTUS should be rational or irrational, it's just above my pay rate. I say that it is dangerous to be simultaneously weak and aggressive. The Russians will fight for Kiev, if necessary - with nuclear weapons, and the USA isn't ready yet for such war.

"It's not just Putin"... I am supposed to know what this means?

Things happened a thousand years ago.... Russia is the largest country on Earth, if they need to take, take, take and take more "for their security" they'll be the only country left.
Is the US weak? Russia did everything it could to avoid war with the US, it tried to stop them giving weapons to the Ukraine. Russia was dumb.

Who says Russia would use nukes? They haven't. They won't because they know they don't stand a chance. Putin doesn't want victory with him dead.

 

[Silver Cat]

"It's not just Putin"... I am supposed to know what this means?

The Russians are not a horde of zombies, lead by a mighty necromancer. They are human beings, they are social animals. You attack one of them (in Kiev, in Odessa, in Donetsk, in Belgorod) - you attack them all. If you disriminate them - they fight back.

Things happened a thousand years ago....

This story had started a thousand years ago, but it is still continues. The Germans, who genocided the Russians in Arthania in IX century, the Germans, genocided the Russians in Baltic region in XIII century during Northern Crusades, the Germans, who invaded Russia in XX century under Hitler command, and the Germans who support genocide of Russians in Ukraine in XXI century - are the same people. This leopard can't change its spots.

Russia is the largest country on Earth, if they need to take, take, take and take more "for their security" they'll be the only country left.

They don't need to take more when they are secure. Anyway, its the reason for us to be strong, not weak.

Is the US weak? Russia did everything it could to avoid war with the US, it tried to stop them giving weapons to the Ukraine. Russia was dumb.

Who says Russia would use nukes? They haven't. They won't because they know they don't stand a chance. Putin doesn't want victory with him dead.

They have a pretty good chances to fight and win a nuclear war against the USA with acceptable level of loses.

 

[Litwin]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.

Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.

Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.

Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.

Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

NATO to Ukraine: Drop Dead!

 

[MisterBeale]

NATO to Ukraine: Drop Dead!

SCOTT RITTER: NATO Summit, a Theater of the Absurd​

The unfulfilled goals and objectives from last year’s meeting in Madrid loom over the Atlantic military alliance. When the membership meets in Vilnius this week, normalizing failure might best describe the most that can be accomplished.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda, on June 26. (NATO)

SCOTT RITTER: NATO Summit, a Theater of the Absurd

The unfulfilled goals and objectives from last year's meeting in Madrid loom over the Atlantic military alliance. When the membership meets in Vilnius this week, normalizing failure might best describe the most that can be accomplished. By Scott Ritter Special to Consortium News The le

consortiumnews.com

". . . . The vision of the Madrid summit was that of NATO capitalizing on its strategic victory against Russia to further expand its ranks in Europe (both Finland and Sweden were invited), and to push its influence into the Pacific Ocean. While NATO’s Pacific partners (Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea) have been invited to Vilnius, the hopes that their presence would coincide with the announcement of the opening of a NATO liaison office in Japan have been quashed by France, which objects to an alliance ostensibly focused on North Atlantic security becoming involved in the Pacific.

While Finland has joined NATO, Sweden has not, and its membership is becoming increasingly problematic given Turkey’s opposition. Turkish President Recep Erdogan’s recent announcement that Turkey will agree to Swedish NATO membership when the European Union admits Turkey appears to be a poison pill that permanently scutters Sweden’s membership hopes, since the European Union is not inclined to admit Turkey.

The Vilnius summit will most likely be defined by these issues, and by the inability of the alliance to reach a meaningful consensus on how best to address them.

One can expect a plethora of rhetorical spin and posturing by the NATO membership, but the fact is the real mission of the Vilnius summit is how best to achieve a soft landing from the unfulfilled goals and objectives laid out last year in Madrid.

Normalizing failure might best describe the best that NATO can accomplish in Vilnius.

Any failure to try to stop the accumulation of debacles that represent the current NATO policy toward Ukraine will result in further collapse of the military situation in Ukraine, and the political situation in Europe, which, in their totality, push NATO closer to the moment of its ultimate demise.

This prospect does not bode well for those whose task it is to put as positive a spin as possible on reality. But NATO has long ago stopped dealing with a fact-based world, allowing itself to devolve into a theater of the absurd where actors fool themselves into believing the tale they are spinning, while the audience stares in dismay."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did the WEF just write off Ukraine?

They control France, Germany and PedoPete, they could have immediately made Ukraine a member.

I guess they realized there just no point to continuing. They tried getting tough with Putin and Putin dealt them a YUGE spanking

Klaus: does this mean we cant fuck over Russia the same way we fucked France, Germany and the USA?

BlackRock: yes Klaus, we’re out the down payment we made to Zelen$ky. Get Biden to repay us

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.

Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.

Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

Tommy, NATO just wrote off Ukraine

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Actually it was started by Obama. The coup he pulled off in 2014 paved the way for this.

Wait. Obama was just following orders!

 

[MisterBeale]

Fight and win a local nuclear war in Mexico and Latin America

This is the idiotic, insane, and degenerate type of thinking, that plagues the ruling elites in both the west, AND east right now.

It also plagued the ruling oligarchs, before both WWI & WWII. Now that none of them remember those wars, this is why they are all acting so inconceivably stoopid, and this shows they have not read much of the ancient and old books that our elders left us.

Damn, I can't have a conversation with you, because you are dumber than my nephew, and he has downs syndrome. That is seriously how retarded you are being.

There is no such thing as a "local nuclear war." Just as, before WWI & WWII, there was no such thing as a, "limited engagement,' between any of those world powers at that point.

Once the spark was lit, we have then ignited all those power kegs. It is all over for global humanity, world civilization, & the whole thing then goes off.
It is like you haven't read any history at all . . . .



Once nukes are out of the bottle? It will be like WWI. EVERYONE will use everything, because they won't want to lose them, and they won't want to be left out. Every major city on the face of the planet, and every military base, and every minor city, that has any industry of any note, WILL BE GONE. Demolished, leveled, destroyed. Any place, any weapons were at anytime known to have been, gone. Any those maps you posted, woefully inaccurate.

And there will be no more ability to launch any conventional military operations any longer. Governments, if there are any, which is highly doubtful, will be too preoccupied trying to reconstitute themselves, and take care of their ruling classes, to give a shit about their middle and lower classes, much less give a shit about projecting power anywhere, on anyone.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What planet are you living on? He tried to capture Kiev and impose his own government on Ukraine. But it doesn't matter what Putin wanted, neither Ukraine nor NATO presented any threat to Russia's security, so Russia had no right to invade Ukraine. Unless you are arguing that powerful nations should be allowed to take whatever they wanted from weaker nations, there was no justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

He’s got no interest in Western Ukraine! The People of Donbass voted OVERWHELMINGLY to rejoin Russia. The WEF had other ideas and interfered

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Russians are not a horde of zombies, lead by a mighty necromancer. They are human beings, they are social animals. You attack one of them (in Kiev, in Odessa, in Donetsk, in Belgorod) - you attack them all. If you disriminate them - they fight back.



This story had started a thousand years ago, but it is still continues. The Germans, who genocided the Russians in Arthania in IX century, the Germans, genocided the Russians in Baltic region in XIII century during Northern Crusades, the Germans, who invaded Russia in XX century under Hitler command, and the Germans who support genocide of Russians in Ukraine in XXI century - are the same people. This leopard can't change its spots.



They don't need to take more when they are secure. Anyway, its the reason for us to be strong, not weak.

They have a pretty good chances to fight and win a nuclear war against the USA with acceptable level of loses.

You seem to justify Russia's attack on the Ukraine by talking about the Germans killing some Russians.... pretty bizarre stuff.

 

[Silver Cat]

This is the idiotic, insane, and degenerate type of thinking, that plagues the ruling elites in both the west, AND east right now.

It also plagued the ruling oligarchs, before both WWI & WWII. Now that none of them remember those wars, this is why they are all acting so inconceivably stoopid, and this shows they have not read much of the ancient and old books that our elders left us.

Damn, I can't have a conversation with you, because you are dumber than my nephew, and he has downs syndrome. That is seriously how retarded you are being.

There is no such thing as a "local nuclear war." Just as, before WWI & WWII, there was no such thing as a, "limited engagement,' between any of those world powers at that point.

Once the spark was lit, we have then ignited all those power kegs. It is all over for global humanity, world civilization, & the whole thing then goes off.
It is like you haven't read any history at all . . . .



Once nukes are out of the bottle? It will be like WWI. EVERYONE will use everything, because they won't want to lose them, and they won't want to be left out. Every major city on the face of the planet, and every military base, and every minor city, that has any industry of any note, WILL BE GONE. Demolished, leveled, destroyed. Any place, any weapons were at anytime known to have been, gone. Any those maps you posted, woefully inaccurate.

And there will be no more ability to launch any conventional military operations any longer. Governments, if there are any, which is highly doubtful, will be too preoccupied trying to reconstitute themselves, and take care of their ruling classes, to give a shit about their middle and lower classes, much less give a shit about projecting power anywhere, on anyone.

View attachment 803548

And one more time.
In our game you have three options:
1. Surrender and be killed. - De facto it's not an option at all.
2. Try to fight and win a local nuclear war. - It's possible only if other players can accept their local defeat and make few steps back. It's possible because they are losing just another oversea battlefield, which is definitely not vital for them. And between loosing a local nuclear war and losing (or even winning) an all out-nuclear war they might choose local defeat.
3. Direct nuclear attack against Russia and China. - And it is the only possible option if you are sure that your adversaries can not accept their defeat in a local nuclear war. And 50/50 chance is better than nothing.

 

[Silver Cat]

Just a nice pic. The gloomy loneliness of a deceived prostitute

 

[Silver Cat]

You seem to justify Russia's attack on the Ukraine by talking about the Germans killing some Russians.... pretty bizarre stuff.

No. They justify their right to eliminate the Kievan regime by historically approved right for self-defense. And, given the nature of Kievan regime, Ukrainian Nazi-Collaborants and their German masters I prone to agree with them.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The Ukraine invasion has gone on long enough. The summit should agree to Ukraine joining NATO asap and tell Putin to fuck off out of Ukraine.

The war has gone on long enough and is dragging all of us down.

Russia will crumble and we will have peace again.

Enough is enough. The war we should be fightting is the climate change war.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Dead man walking

They'll leave his country in ruins (which will also be a total victory for putin )

Doesn't matter to vlad

The US government will just open up shop somewhere else

See money laundering, child trafficking ,and organ harvesting

 

[frigidweirdo]

No. They justify their right to eliminate the Kievan regime by historically approved right for self-defense. And, given the nature of Kievan regime, Ukrainian Nazi-Collaborants and their German masters I prone to agree with them.

How can it be "self defense" when they're attacking a foreign country?
Also, Putin didn't bring up "self defense", he brought up lots of things, God, NATO and the like... but not self defense.