N.Y.-Born Man Arrested in Plot to 'Wage Jihad'

[Justin Buell]

Fuck your shameless red herring.

I don't see home-grown Hispanics or African Americans plotting violent terrorist attacks in general. You look to just about every country with a home-grown Muslim community and you see it. How do you bridge the gaps? If someone is that irrational that they would declare war on the system that raised them, how can you really reason with them?
Be nicer to them? Pisses them off. Be tougher to them? Pisses them off.

You can't reason with hate.

Your last sentence is correct. So I won't attempt to.

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

 

[sangha]

This saddens me.

Every time an african-american robs a liquor store, every time a latino gang member is involved in a drive-by, every time a disenfranchised muslim decides to take innocent lives... we will never make progress as a people if we continue to judge entire groups of people based on these actions.

It frustrates me sometimes that members of these groups don't have more pride for themselves, for their community, to actually do something to bridge the gaps plaguing our society.

To quote one of my favorite films, Crash: "You embarrass me, you embarrass yourself."

Fuck your shameless red herring.

I don't see home-grown Hispanics or African Americans plotting violent terrorist attacks in general. You look to just about every country with a home-grown Muslim community and you see it. How do you bridge the gaps? If someone is that irrational that they would declare war on the system that raised them, how can you really reason with them?
Be nicer to them? Pisses them off. Be tougher to them? Pisses them off. You can't reason with hate.

The hispanics and the blacks leave the plotting of violent terrorist attacks in the US to the white christian males

Hutaree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hutaree (pronounced /huːˈtɑriː/ ( listen)) is a militia movement group adhering to the Christian Patriot movement, based in Adrian, Michigan, in the United States.[1]

The group was formed in early 2008. The name "Hutaree" appears to be a neologism; the group's web site says that it means "Christian warriors". [2]

The group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments. On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the "brotherhood", and were considered by the Hutaree to be "enemies". [1]

From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine people thought to be Hutaree members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms

 

[Ozmar]

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[Sallow]

Then why the fuck are their homegrown Jihadis in every country with a significant Muslim population? Britain, France, Germany, practically all of the Middle East, even in Australia. And now here in America. Not all Muslims are Jihadis, but wherever there is a Muslim community, increasingly there are Jihadis and homegrown terrorists. And don't try to use Timothy McVeigh as a red herring on this!

Timothy McVeigh a "red herring"?? Do yourself a favor and visit Oklahoma City. You'll see how much of a "red herring" that idiot was..

Visit any of the tenfold terrorist attacks committed by radical Muslims, and tell me it's not a red herring.

I live in NYC..and have visited both the WTC site (Shortly after the attack) and the Oklahoma City site.

 

[Justin Buell]

Why can't we all just get along?

Because we all have different solutions on how to make everyone in the world get along.

Inadvertantly, we end up killing each other over a disagreement about what should be done to have peace.

I have a simple suggestion... stop coming up with solutions.

 

[Sallow]

Your last sentence is correct. So I won't attempt to.

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

-Stop killing people.
-Stop trying to dominate other governments.

Those two things alone would stop about 90% of the reason for terrorism from radical Muslim extremists.

 

[Justin Buell]

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

-Stop killing people.
-Stop trying to dominate other governments.

Those two things alone would stop about 90% of the reason for terrorism from radical Muslim extremists.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

But I don't think Ozmar would share you're sympathies. I hear people like him go on and on about the threat of Islam, yet I have not heard a single solution out of any of them.

 

[Ozmar]

Your last sentence is correct. So I won't attempt to.

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

In secular Turkey, they have government oversight of religious schools. If there were government oversight, we would be able to weed out and prosecute radical clerics here. It's self defeating to hold the ideal of "freedom of religion to such a degree that we allow foreign funded schools that teach their students to hate the country they live in and want to plot terrorist attacks against it.

Don't tell me there's no precedent for it. Those raids on the Mormon sect in Texas... Prosecutions of religious cults, and raids on them for conducting anti-government activities..
The only difference here is that if any of that is done against Muslims, apparently we run the risk of radicalizing that majority of Muslims overseas who apparently are not more prone to radicalization in your book.

At some point we need to stand up to this bullshit. I'm not saying Muslims should be persecuted, but I am saying they must know there are limits, and giving in out of the threat they their youngens may become radicalized because of our "insensitivity" of not bending to their will is not doing anyone any favors.

 

[Justin Buell]

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

In secular Turkey, they have government oversight of religious schools. If there were government oversight, we would be able to weed out and prosecute radical clerics here. It's self defeating to hold the ideal of "freedom of religion to such a degree that we allow foreign funded schools that teach their students to hate the country they live in and want to plot terrorist attacks against it.

Don't tell me there's no precedent for it. Those raids on the Mormon sect in Texas... Prosecutions of religious cults, and raids on them for conducting anti-government activities..
The only difference here is that if any of that is done against Muslims, apparently we run the risk of radicalizing that majority of Muslims overseas who apparently are not more prone to radicalization in your book.

At some point we need to stand up to this bullshit. I'm not saying Muslims should be persecuted, but I am saying they must know there are limits, and giving in out of the threat they their youngens may become radicalized because of our "insensitivity" of not bending to their will is not doing anyone any favors.

Well, that may be the first actual solution I've heard from someone who think like yourself. I thank you for that.

I disagree with you completely, but I thank you nonetheless.

 

[Ozmar]

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

-Stop killing people.
-Stop trying to dominate other governments.

Those two things alone would stop about 90% of the reason for terrorism from radical Muslim extremists.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

But I don't think Ozmar would share you're sympathies. I hear people like him go on and on about the threat of Islam, yet I have not heard a single solution out of any of them.

Don't pigeonhole me.

Telling radicals to stop killing people and stop trying to dominate other governments is useless rhetoric unless there is something to back that talk up. Talk is cheap when you have people like the 9-11 Mosque cleric creating a situation with this Mosque, and then saying "we risk radicalizing Muslims if we bow out now." Apparently he has no qualms with backing up his talk with vague notions of future radicalism. An interesting rhetorical tool there.

 

[sangha]

Wingnuts like to talk endlessly about Islamic terrorism in order to distract attention from the terrorist acts committed by their right wing christian allies. There is no doubt that most of the terrorist acts committed in the US during the three decades have been committed by right wing christians

 

[Ozmar]

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

In secular Turkey, they have government oversight of religious schools. If there were government oversight, we would be able to weed out and prosecute radical clerics here. It's self defeating to hold the ideal of "freedom of religion to such a degree that we allow foreign funded schools that teach their students to hate the country they live in and want to plot terrorist attacks against it.

Don't tell me there's no precedent for it. Those raids on the Mormon sect in Texas... Prosecutions of religious cults, and raids on them for conducting anti-government activities..
The only difference here is that if any of that is done against Muslims, apparently we run the risk of radicalizing that majority of Muslims overseas who apparently are not more prone to radicalization in your book.

At some point we need to stand up to this bullshit. I'm not saying Muslims should be persecuted, but I am saying they must know there are limits, and giving in out of the threat they their youngens may become radicalized because of our "insensitivity" of not bending to their will is not doing anyone any favors.

Well, that may be the first actual solution I've heard from someone who think like yourself. I thank you for that.

I disagree with you completely, but I thank you nonetheless.

By my bolded text, I believe you are close-minded.

You disagree with me?

We should not have some sort of oversight of schools where radicals teach their radical ideology of hate against the west on home soil? And then you wonder why there are home grown terrorists? What is your solution then?

I have yet to hear a solution from you apart from stereotyping anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Sallow]

Good. You'll either be blown up or forced to convert... look to Europe.

Out of curiousity, what do you expect to be done about this, to solve the problem?

In secular Turkey, they have government oversight of religious schools. If there were government oversight, we would be able to weed out and prosecute radical clerics here. It's self defeating to hold the ideal of "freedom of religion to such a degree that we allow foreign funded schools that teach their students to hate the country they live in and want to plot terrorist attacks against it.

Don't tell me there's no precedent for it. Those raids on the Mormon sect in Texas... Prosecutions of religious cults, and raids on them for conducting anti-government activities..
The only difference here is that if any of that is done against Muslims, apparently we run the risk of radicalizing that majority of Muslims overseas who apparently are not more prone to radicalization in your book.

At some point we need to stand up to this bullshit. I'm not saying Muslims should be persecuted, but I am saying they must know there are limits, and giving in out of the threat they their youngens may become radicalized because of our "insensitivity" of not bending to their will is not doing anyone any favors.

You been there?

I have.

They were pretty pissed about the Iraqi invasion.

I found that out..by talking to real Turks. In Istanbul. On the street.

 

[Justin Buell]

-Stop killing people.
-Stop trying to dominate other governments.

Those two things alone would stop about 90% of the reason for terrorism from radical Muslim extremists.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

But I don't think Ozmar would share you're sympathies. I hear people like him go on and on about the threat of Islam, yet I have not heard a single solution out of any of them.

Don't pigeonhole me.

Telling radicals to stop killing people and stop trying to dominate other governments is useless rhetoric unless there is something to back that talk up. Talk is cheap when you have people like the 9-11 Mosque cleric creating a situation with this Mosque, and then saying "we risk radicalizing Muslims if we bow out now." Apparently he has no qualms with backing up his talk with vague notions of future radicalism. An interesting rhetorical tool there.

I apologize for pigeonholing you. It's just that I have been talking to people with simialar, if not identical, sentiment for quite some time now.

I think the fears are, for the most part, unjustified. Muslims, by and large, are not violent and have no intention of harming anyone.

Violence of any kind should not be tolerated, but seeing the Government as a solution is rather counter-productive to that philosophy.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't know about the vast majority of Muslims... but you don't hear a lot about non-Muslims plotting terror attacks or wanting to join their brothers overseas for violent jihad, and it does seem that Muslims are particularly prone to easy radicalization...

"it does seem that Muslims are particularly prone to easy radicalization"

something in common with the baggers.
Downright Mavericky.
You betcha.

I'm a realist, and you are off your rocker and in denial if you think I'm at all wrong.

Yeah well the Jews and christians have govts and armies behind them too.

 

[Ozmar]

Wingnuts like to talk endlessly about Islamic terrorism in order to distract attention from the terrorist acts committed by their right wing christian allies. There is no doubt that most of the terrorist acts committed in the US during the three decades have been committed by right wing christians

Wingnuts like to detract from the topic at hand, which is Islamic terrorists. What's the matter, are you in such denial that you try to derail the topic with "Christian terrorism?"
Of course Christian terrorism exists. At this point it becomes more and more obvious that Islamists are a greater threat.

 

[Justin Buell]

In secular Turkey, they have government oversight of religious schools. If there were government oversight, we would be able to weed out and prosecute radical clerics here. It's self defeating to hold the ideal of "freedom of religion to such a degree that we allow foreign funded schools that teach their students to hate the country they live in and want to plot terrorist attacks against it.

Don't tell me there's no precedent for it. Those raids on the Mormon sect in Texas... Prosecutions of religious cults, and raids on them for conducting anti-government activities..
The only difference here is that if any of that is done against Muslims, apparently we run the risk of radicalizing that majority of Muslims overseas who apparently are not more prone to radicalization in your book.

At some point we need to stand up to this bullshit. I'm not saying Muslims should be persecuted, but I am saying they must know there are limits, and giving in out of the threat they their youngens may become radicalized because of our "insensitivity" of not bending to their will is not doing anyone any favors.

Well, that may be the first actual solution I've heard from someone who think like yourself. I thank you for that.

I disagree with you completely, but I thank you nonetheless.

By my bolded text, I believe you are close-minded.

You disagree with me?

We should not have some sort of oversight of schools where radicals teach their radical ideology of hate against the west on home soil? And then you wonder why there are home grown terrorists? What is your solution then?

I have yet to hear a solution from you apart from stereotyping anyone who disagrees with you.

I have the same solution as Michael Scheuer, former CIA head of the Bin Laden unit, who says modern radical Islam is an Ameircan product that can easily be put out of commision with a change of course in our foriegn policy.

 

[Sallow]

Wingnuts like to talk endlessly about Islamic terrorism in order to distract attention from the terrorist acts committed by their right wing christian allies. There is no doubt that most of the terrorist acts committed in the US during the three decades have been committed by right wing christians

Not only that..they encourage Christians to be more militant. "The Family" a right wing Christain organization, sent people to the De Facto Christain Theocracy in Uganda to encourage them to hang homosexuals.

 

[Claudette]

These guys are Muslim Americans born in the US. Guess the Muslims aren't integrating well into American Society even if they are born here.

I wonder if Baharhar will demand the accusers come to the Bronx so she can say Muslims even home grown Muslims aren't trying to kill Americans.

Womans a moron.

Ok, here we go again. Muslim this, Jihad that.. Christ, just how stupid are you people?

Too bad R/teapartiers can't think about anything else. They need to work on jobs and the economy which they've been howling about for two years now. They should have been working on it ten years ago.

The economy and jobs is what OL'BO should have been working on instead of his HC bs.

If he had concentrated on that his party might have stood a chance of holding onto the House.

Aw well. I guess I'll get back to being worried about being blown up by a terrorist. I'm sure thats something thats never crossed your mind. LOL

 

[Ozmar]

I'm inclined to agree with you.

But I don't think Ozmar would share you're sympathies. I hear people like him go on and on about the threat of Islam, yet I have not heard a single solution out of any of them.

Don't pigeonhole me.

Telling radicals to stop killing people and stop trying to dominate other governments is useless rhetoric unless there is something to back that talk up. Talk is cheap when you have people like the 9-11 Mosque cleric creating a situation with this Mosque, and then saying "we risk radicalizing Muslims if we bow out now." Apparently he has no qualms with backing up his talk with vague notions of future radicalism. An interesting rhetorical tool there.

I apologize for pigeonholing you. It's just that I have been talking to people with simialar, if not identical, sentiment for quite some time now.

I think the fears are, for the most part, unjustified. Muslims, by and large, are not violent and have no intention of harming anyone.

Violence of any kind should not be tolerated, but seeing the Government as a solution is rather counter-productive to that philosophy.

What is the solution? We can't go on having schools raising radicalized students. They're starting to see the results of that in Europe. What is your solution?