N.J. charges 8 private sector merchants with gouging after Sandy

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wrong, butthole. In the first place, the term "price gouging" doesn't mean anything other than the fact that some moron doesn't like the price you are charging.

Wrong. Its specifically defined by the law. It has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

I doubt that it is.

LOL! Do you honestly think these 8 businesses are being charged under a non-existent law? The term "gouging" is a colloquial one but these businesses are being charged with violation of an actual law.

How high a price is considered "gouging?" Charging 1% more than the day before the hurricane? How about charging 10%?

Why don't you ask a New Jersey lawyer or look it up yourself?


Oh look - here's the answer:

New Jersey's price gouging statute says merchants can not charge more than 10% above the price at which merchandise was sold during the normal course of business prior to the state of emergency. If a merchant faces additional costs during the emergency, prices may not exceed 10% above the normal markup from cost.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/09/news/economy/sandy-price-gouging/index.html

That was so hard to find out.


Guess what? The law is available to the public. If a business wants to prey off of disaster victims they can move to another state.

 

[bripat9643]

From the link:

“We have received no indication that these defendants faced costs that would have made these excessive price increases necessary or justifiable. One gas station even paid less per gallon for a shipment of fuel after the storm than it had paid before the storm,” Chiesa said in a statement.

Only a moron would gladly argue that the merchant was justified in raising prices during a humanitarian crisis simply for pure greed.

Whether they face additional costs is irrelevant. Price limits mean the demand will be greater than the supply. People will buy more than they need just in case. That means others will get nothing. A higher price induces people to purchase less than they would otherwise. That means more product is available to those who need it the most.

All this sanctimonious blather about "price gouging" doesn't help people in the affected area one iota. In fact it harms them.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Laws that prevent merchants from charging the market price cause shortages, and the product quickly disappears from the shelves.

Price gouging laws are only in effect during natural disasters.

And sorry but your suggestion that a hotel will instantly have more rooms to rent just because its charging more is fucking stupid. Do you really think the HoJo mentioned in the OP got bigger when it jacked up its prices?

Yes, it will have more rooms to rent. For one thing, the family of 8 that may have originally wanted to rent 3 rooms at $100/night will make due with one room when the price is $400. Presto-chango, two more rooms are available for others to rent.

You really are a stupid shit, ya know that?

They'd make do with a parking lot and it'd be fine with you so long as Mr. HoJo makes a killing.

 

[bripat9643]

10% is gouging? What is the economic basis for that cutoff? Why is 9% OK, but 10% is a crime against humanity? The distinction is purely arbitrary. It's not based on any objective definition of "gouging." What is "the normal course of business prior to the emergency?" As I pointed out elsewhere, prior to a hurricane, stores have runs on any products that might prove useful during a hurricane. The price goes up before the hurricane arrives.

New Jersey's price gouging statute says merchants can not charge more than 10% above the price at which merchandise was sold during the normal course of business prior to the state of emergency. If a merchant faces additional costs during the emergency, prices may not exceed 10% above the normal markup from cost.

 

[martybegan]

From the link:

“We have received no indication that these defendants faced costs that would have made these excessive price increases necessary or justifiable. One gas station even paid less per gallon for a shipment of fuel after the storm than it had paid before the storm,” Chiesa said in a statement.

Only a moron would gladly argue that the merchant was justified in raising prices during a humanitarian crisis simply for pure greed.

Whether they face additional costs is irrelevant. Price limits mean the demand will be greater than the supply. People will buy more than they need just in case. That means others will get nothing. A higher price induces people to purchase less than they would otherwise. That means more product is available to those who need it the most.

All this sanctimonious blather about "price gouging" doesn't help people in the affected area one iota. In fact it harms them.

The other option is you limit the ability to purchase a product until supply catches up. This would go beyond odd-even, but towards odd-even, plus only if your tank is below 1/8 full, and you can only fill up containers if you can show an address without power. Or you can just let prices bump up $2-3$ a gallon and that will happen naturally.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, it will have more rooms to rent. For one thing, the family of 8 that may have originally wanted to rent 3 rooms at $100/night will make due with one room when the price is $400. Presto-chango, two more rooms are available for others to rent.

You really are a stupid shit, ya know that?

They'd make do with a parking lot and it'd be fine with you so long as Mr. HoJo makes a killing.

If the price is set artificially low, then the parking lot is where they will be sleeping because the hog with the big family rented all the available rooms.

 

[bripat9643]

From the link:

“We have received no indication that these defendants faced costs that would have made these excessive price increases necessary or justifiable. One gas station even paid less per gallon for a shipment of fuel after the storm than it had paid before the storm,” Chiesa said in a statement.

Only a moron would gladly argue that the merchant was justified in raising prices during a humanitarian crisis simply for pure greed.

Whether they face additional costs is irrelevant. Price limits mean the demand will be greater than the supply. People will buy more than they need just in case. That means others will get nothing. A higher price induces people to purchase less than they would otherwise. That means more product is available to those who need it the most.

All this sanctimonious blather about "price gouging" doesn't help people in the affected area one iota. In fact it harms them.

The other option is you limit the ability to purchase a product until supply catches up. This would go beyond odd-even, but towards odd-even, plus only if your tank is below 1/8 full, and you can only fill up containers if you can show an address without power. Or you can just let prices bump up $2-3$ a gallon and that will happen naturally.

Government rationing schemes never work as well as the market mechanism. The classic proof of that is the former Soviet Union where the government rationed everything. The result was chronic shortages or warehouses full of condoms that were never used.

 

[martybegan]

Whether they face additional costs is irrelevant. Price limits mean the demand will be greater than the supply. People will buy more than they need just in case. That means others will get nothing. A higher price induces people to purchase less than they would otherwise. That means more product is available to those who need it the most.

All this sanctimonious blather about "price gouging" doesn't help people in the affected area one iota. In fact it harms them.

The other option is you limit the ability to purchase a product until supply catches up. This would go beyond odd-even, but towards odd-even, plus only if your tank is below 1/8 full, and you can only fill up containers if you can show an address without power. Or you can just let prices bump up $2-3$ a gallon and that will happen naturally.

Government rationing schemes never work as well as the market mechanism. The classic proof of that is the former Soviet Union where the government rationed everything. The result was chronic shortages or warehouses full of condoms that were never used.

I do agree, but considering the situation would be limited in time, as opposed to the soviet system where rationing was permanent, it would be workable.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

10% is gouging? What is the economic basis for that cutoff?

Do I look like the New Jersey State Legislature to you? They may have just as easily chosen 5% or 50%, you're right, and different states also have different cutoffs for everything under the sun - from the driving age to the definition of felony theft to the speed you can drive your car. Does that mean all of those limits should be removed? Whose to say 70 mph is a safe speed limit but 75 mph is not? Why are they always in 5 mph increments? Its safe for someone who is 16 years and zero days old to drive a car, but not for someone who is 15 years and 364.9999 days old? Why is the sky fucking blue? Why? Why? Why?

Why is 9% OK, but 10% is a crime against humanity?

Who ever said it was? Its a crime against the People of New Jersey. That's all. And those convicted will pay the price. In the civilized world we call that "justice".

The distinction is purely arbitrary. It's not based on any objective definition of "gouging."

You are free to look up the New Jersey law if you want to know what it is based on.

What is "the normal course of business prior to the emergency?" As I pointed out elsewhere, prior to a hurricane, stores have runs on any products that might prove useful during a hurricane. The price goes up before the hurricane arrives.

States of emergency are declared prior to hurricanes actually arriving you idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

10% is gouging? What is the economic basis for that cutoff?

Do I look like the New Jersey State Legislature to you? They may have just as easily chosen 5% or 50%, you're right, and different states also have different cutoffs for everything under the sun - from the driving age to the definition of felony theft to the speed you can drive your car. Does that mean all of those limits should be removed?

You're the one defending the New Jersey state legislature, but you don't even know the basis for the law you are defending. You just admitted the distinction between "gouging" and a "just price" is totally arbitrary. In other words, justice has nothing to do with it.

Why is 9% OK, but 10% is a crime against humanity?

Who ever said it was? Its a crime against the People of New Jersey. That's all. And those convicted will pay the price. In the civilized world we call that "justice".

You're the one who claims "gouging" is unjust. Yet, you can't even tell us where the dividing line between gouging and an acceptable price is. We already know the State of New Jersey made it against the law to charge 10% more than the day before hurricane. The point here is that you have no rational justification for it.

States of emergency are declared prior to hurricanes actually arriving you idiot.

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

 

[bripat9643]

The other option is you limit the ability to purchase a product until supply catches up. This would go beyond odd-even, but towards odd-even, plus only if your tank is below 1/8 full, and you can only fill up containers if you can show an address without power. Or you can just let prices bump up $2-3$ a gallon and that will happen naturally.

Government rationing schemes never work as well as the market mechanism. The classic proof of that is the former Soviet Union where the government rationed everything. The result was chronic shortages or warehouses full of condoms that were never used.

I do agree, but considering the situation would be limited in time, as opposed to the soviet system where rationing was permanent, it would be workable.

It's still not workable because the authorities never know what products will be in short supply and how much will be available.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, it will have more rooms to rent. For one thing, the family of 8 that may have originally wanted to rent 3 rooms at $100/night will make due with one room when the price is $400. Presto-chango, two more rooms are available for others to rent.

You really are a stupid shit, ya know that?

They'd make do with a parking lot and it'd be fine with you so long as Mr. HoJo makes a killing.

If the price is set artificially low, then the parking lot is where they will be sleeping because the hog with the big family rented all the available rooms.

Laughable. Now you want to regulate who is allowed to rent what. Fascism, yet another reason the Republicans lost.

 

[Ravi]

10% is gouging? What is the economic basis for that cutoff?

Do I look like the New Jersey State Legislature to you? They may have just as easily chosen 5% or 50%, you're right, and different states also have different cutoffs for everything under the sun - from the driving age to the definition of felony theft to the speed you can drive your car. Does that mean all of those limits should be removed?

You're the one defending the New Jersey state legislature, but you don't even know the basis for the law you are defending. You just admitted the distinction between "gouging" and a "just price" is totally arbitrary. In other words, justice has nothing to do with it.

Who ever said it was? Its a crime against the People of New Jersey. That's all. And those convicted will pay the price. In the civilized world we call that "justice".

You're the one who claims "gouging" is unjust. Yet, you can't even tell us where the dividing line between gouging and an acceptable price is. We already know the State of New Jersey made it against the law to charge 10% more than the day before hurricane. The point here is that you have no rational justification for it.

States of emergency are declared prior to hurricanes actually arriving you idiot.

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

Bullshit. Thanks for proving once and for all what a lying idiot you really are.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You're the one who claims "gouging" is unjust. Yet, you can't even tell us where the dividing line between gouging and an acceptable price is. We already know the State of New Jersey made it against the law to charge 10% more than the day before hurricane.

Its 10% more than the price before the state of emergency was declared. Can you read?

The point here is that you have no rational justification for it.

Its what the People of New Jersey decided the law should be. Why do you oppose local government?

States of emergency are declared prior to hurricanes actually arriving you idiot.

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

Because of the utter stupidity of this comment, I'm going to respond in a different post,using big bold letters to emphasize how dumb you are.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

WRONG

NORTH MIDDLETOWN, N.J.–Gov. Chris Christie declared a state of emergency in anticipation of Hurricane Sandy, warning that parts of New Jersey could be without power for days.

Christie Declares State of Emergency for New Jersey - Metropolis - WSJ

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Capitalist pigs at their finest. So much for the private sector giving a shit about the down and out citizens.





N.J. charges 8 merchants with gouging after Sandy* - Business on NBCNews.com

New Jersey has filed lawsuits against eight businesses for allegedly gouging customers with exorbitant prices in the days after Superstorm Sandy roared ashore, the state's attorney general said Friday.

Isn't socialism wonderful? It costs more to get stuff into the state after a disaster, so the state responds by making it impossible to get stuff in after a disaster.

 

[Ravi]

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

WRONG

NORTH MIDDLETOWN, N.J.–Gov. Chris Christie declared a state of emergency in anticipation of Hurricane Sandy, warning that parts of New Jersey could be without power for days.

Christie Declares State of Emergency for New Jersey - Metropolis - WSJ

In 99.9% of cases a state of emergency is called based on NOAA's projected path.

Bripat probably lives in Utah in a cave and has never been through a hurricane.

 

[The Rabbi]

Any private company has the right to be the biggest fucking douchebag during a time of humanitarian crisis but that company had better not piss and moan and act surprised when public awareness runs to the media to denounce their douchebaggery and call for a boycott of their business.

How many businesses have been boycotted as a result?
I'd be grateful to any business that was able to supply me with a commodity I really needed, as opposed to just shoving a "Closed" sign in my face and telling me to fuck off.

So only these 8 businesses were able to supply people with the commodities they needed and it was because they jacked up their prices. Their power stayed on and their supply lines stayed open - because they gouged people.

Got it.

You must be fucking stupid. Or a liberal. But i repeat myself.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, actually they aren't. I've been through several hurricanes. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. NOAA issues a hurricane warning before one arrives, but a state of emergency is declare only after actual damage occurs.

WRONG

NORTH MIDDLETOWN, N.J.–Gov. Chris Christie declared a state of emergency in anticipation of Hurricane Sandy, warning that parts of New Jersey could be without power for days.

Christie Declares State of Emergency for New Jersey - Metropolis - WSJ

In 99.9% of cases a state of emergency is called based on NOAA's projected path.

Bripat probably lives in Utah in a cave and has never been through a hurricane.

Federal law requires damage to exceed a certain amount before the president can declare a disaster. Sandy was unique in that there was a massive fire in an area impacted by the storm, which actually allowed Obama to declare a disaster area in the area affected by the fire before the storm was over. This is the first time in history this has ever happened.

States may, or may not, have more flexibility based on what their law is, apparently New Jersey allows the governor to declare a disaster area before a storm hits.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wrong, butthole. In the first place, the term "price gouging" doesn't mean anything other than the fact that some moron doesn't like the price you are charging.

Wrong. Its specifically defined by the law. It has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

charging the market price means everyone who really needs the product can get some.

No it doesn't. The above statement is quite simply and obviously not true. The idea that everyone who needs a product can get it flies in the face of basic economics - both in the context of a disaster and in the context of business as usual. The fact that one might need 5 gallons of gas doesn't mean they are able to obtain it - you should have learned that in 1st grade but I guess you were to busy huffing glue.

The legal definiton of "gouging" is no more authoritative than anything else.
Price controls guaranteed that no one could get gas at any price. That is the socialist paradise: everyone equal in misery.