Myths of Protectionism

[JBeukema]

Outsourcing has been an enormous boon to the poor in the third world.

Tell that to Fatema Akter.




Fair trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, I've read about Fair Trade for a long time. I'll post some stuff on it later. It is often distortionary and discriminatory against many of the people it purports to help.

'Outsourcing' in the third world ('developing ountries') is Orwellian Newspeak for neocolonialism and sweatshops, for the very worst aspects of unbridled Capitalism.

Outsourcing provides better jobs than people currently have. There is a reason why literally a hundred million Chinese flocked from the rural areas to the manufacturing zones over the past 20 years - because the wages they were paid in the factories were much higher than what they were paid on the farm, often 3x-4x higher. Plus, they were receiving a paycheck as opposed to living at the mercy of the weather in subsistence farming economies. This isn't like the Industrial Revolution where peasants were often kicked off farms that were turned into pastoral land and had no other options. This is one of the largest migrations in human history as people have voluntarily sought better lives. The past 30 years have seen one of the greatest declines in absolute poverty in the word, ever, and a huge part of it is because of offshoring.

I can post empirical evidence later.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/67602-sweatshops-benefit-the-poor.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...on-of-the-proletariat-what-is-free-trade.html


You're assuming that progressive worker protection and and workplace and product safety (as well and environmental) regulations (as well as mimimum wage and other labour laws) are in place and enforced. Often, that's not the case is the 3rd world- that's why large Western corporations operate there.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energ...-accused-of-human-rights-abuses-in-burma.html

Newsroom - The National Labor Committee

 

[JBeukema]

Do-gooder populist twirps like JBolshevik never seem to ponder the fact that people who work in those "sweat shops" were doing something prior to that, which made working in the "sweat shop" look like a viable option.

And slavery made sharecropping look like a good thing


That you insist on calling those on the Anti-Stalinist left, including someone who adheres to many of the tentes of the Frankfurt Declaration a 'Bolshevik' proves that all you do is throw words around whilst having no clue what they mean, my dear profundus maximus.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Fp6RvYdBQ[/ame]

 

[Toro]

You're assuming that progressive worker protection and and workplace and product safety (as well and environmental) regulations (as well as mimimum wage and other labour laws) are in place and enforced. Often, that's not the case is the 3rd world- that's why large Western corporations operate there.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energ...-accused-of-human-rights-abuses-in-burma.html

Newsroom - The National Labor Committee

No, I'm not assuming anything. I don't expect third world countries to have the same labour standards, minimum wages and environmental laws as we do. Nor do I expect them to.

As for Chevron and Burma, it is a sad fact that oil companies have to go to where the oil is located. And when the oil is here, the environmentalists do what they can to discourage drilling.

 

[JBeukema]

And they work alongside authoritarian regimes and use murder and slavery to ensure you can drive a Hummer.


Aint capitalism grand?


But hey, out of sight, out of mind, right? As long as the slaves, murder, and child labour are done elsewhere, it's all good, right? After all, slavery makes the standard of living AWESOME for the slavemasters

 

[Toro]

I don't drive a hummer.

Implying that offshoring is the equivalent of slavery is hyperbolic hysteria.

 

[JBeukema]

Go follow the links I provided earlier. For many there is little difference; 'outsourcing' is a euphemism in the third world for neocolonialsm- and I agree with George Carlin when it comes to euphemisms.

 

[Toro]

Outsourcing is lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty and increasing nations' standards of living.

 

[JBeukema]

Capitalism, no matter where it is, must be muzzled and kept on a leash. History has proven this.

Consider the conditions of the working class in England before and after reforms (red: before and after socialism took hold)

 

[Toro]

Capitalism, no matter where it is, must be muzzled and kept on a leash. History has proven this.

Consider the conditions of the working class in England before and after reforms (red: before and after socialism took hold)

I don't disagree that capitalism should always operate unimpeded. But that does not change the fact that globalization has dramatically improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

China didn't become the world's second largest economy by discouraging foreign investment.

 

[JBeukema]

Capitalism, no matter where it is, must be muzzled and kept on a leash. History has proven this.

Consider the conditions of the working class in England before and after reforms (red: before and after socialism took hold)

I don't disagree that capitalism should always operate unimpeded.

I never said capitalism should ever operate unimpeded. I've said quite the opposite. Repeatedly and very clearly. I believe my exact words were 'muzzled and on a leash'.

But that does not change the fact that globalization has dramatically improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

And spelled horrible fates for others, likes 'true' colonialism before it.

So we go back to

protective tariffs and fair trade laws than ban imported goods produced in sweatshops to reduce the exploitation of the poor and make 'outsourcing' less attractive and keeps jobs and manufacturing inside the United States, with trade supplementing rather than replacing American production and invention. Two birds, one stone.

China didn't become the world's second largest economy by discouraging foreign investment.

I wouldn't call China a good example to follow when it comes to anything since Mao.

 

[Toro]

I wouldn't call China a good example to follow when it comes to anything since Mao.

I beg to differ, and I think most Chinese would as well. China is following the same paths as the other Asian countries that rose from poverty - Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. Those countries all have issues but they have all come from being dirt poor to being at least middle income countries in two generations, an incredible feet.

 

[eagleseven]

I wouldn't call China a good example to follow when it comes to anything since Mao.

I beg to differ, and I think most Chinese would as well. China is following the same paths as the other Asian countries that rose from poverty - Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. Those countries all have issues but they have all come from being dirt poor to being at least middle income countries in two generations, an incredible feet.

Amen!

 

[eagleseven]

Go follow the links I provided earlier. For many there is little difference; 'outsourcing' is a euphemism in the third world for neocolonialsm- and I agree with George Carlin when it comes to euphemisms.

The anti-colonial rebels have been doing what to Africa's economy over the past forty years?

Pillaging it.

 

[JBeukema]

That path being finally giving up their stupidity and trying to be like us?

 

[JBeukema]

Go follow the links I provided earlier. For many there is little difference; 'outsourcing' is a euphemism in the third world for neocolonialsm- and I agree with George Carlin when it comes to euphemisms.

The anti-colonial rebels have been doing what to Africa's economy over the past forty years?

Pillaging it.

They're not really anti-colonials who care about preventing the exploitation of the locals so much as they're warlords concerned about competition form more powerful enemies.

 

[Oddball]

I don't drive a hummer.

Implying that offshoring is the equivalent of slavery is hyperbolic hysteria.

Hyperbolic hysteria is all populist bedwetters have left, when confronted with proven economic dynamics.

 

[Ravi]

I don't drive a hummer.

Implying that offshoring is the equivalent of slavery is hyperbolic hysteria.

Hyperbolic hysteria is all populist bedwetters have left, when confronted with proven economic dynamics.

Ironic post. Pot/Kettle +10

 

[editec]

The costs of protectionism are usually hidden, spread over the population and hard to quantify.

As are the BENEFITS of fair trade, I note.

the benefits to protectionism are in cash, very visible to the recipients, and concentrated in the hands of those who have the ear of the legislature.

That is a justifiable complaint, I agree.

During the free trade era, roughly between 1840 and 1910 wars were short and infrequent, economic growth of 6% was the norm.

1840- 1910 was the FREE TRADE ERA?!

You're kidding, right?

This is a list of United States tariffs.

• 1789: Hamilton tariff
• 1790: Tariff of 1790
• 1792: Tariff of 1792
• 1816: Tariff of 1816 (Dallas Tariff)
• 1824: Tariff of 1824 (Sectional Tariff)
• 1828: Tariff of 1828 (Tariff of Abominations)
• 1832: Tariff of 1832
• 1833: Tariff of 1833 (Compromise Tariff)
• 1842: Tariff of 1842 (Black Tariff)
• 1846: Walker tariff
• 1857: Tariff of 1857
• 1861: Morrill tariff
• 1872: Tariff of 1872
• 1875: Tariff of 1875
• 1883: Mongrel Tariff
• 1890: McKinley tariff
• 1894: Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act
• 1897: Dingley tariff
• 1909: Payne-Aldrich tariff
• 1913: Underwood tariff
• 1921: Emergency Tariff of 1921
• 1922: Fordney-McCumber tariff
• 1930: Hawley-Smoot tariff
• 1934: Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act (Hull Trade Pacts)
• 1945: Bretton Woods Agreement Act, Pub.L. 79-171
• 1947: General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT)
• 1951: Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act, Pub.L. 82-50
• 1955: Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act Extension, Pub.L. 84-86
• 1958: Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act Extension, Pub.L. 85-686
• 1961: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development Treaty
• 1962: Trade Expansion Act began removing tariffs, Pub.L. 87-794
• 1964: Chicken tax, Johnson administration 25% tax on commercial vehicle imporation.
• 1963–1967: Kennedy round of GATT
• 1973–1979: Tokyo round of GATT
• 1974: Trade Act of 1974, Pub.L. 93-618
• 1979: Foreign Trade Act, Pub.L. 96-39
• 1984: Trade and Tariff Act, Pub.L. 98-573
• 1988: Omnibus Foreign Trade and Competitiveness Act, Pub.L. 100-418
• 1989: Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement
• 1993: North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), Pub.L. 103-182
• 1994: World Trade Organization created
• 2002: United States steel tariff 2002
• 2002: Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA)

source

 

[Oddball]

Hate to break it to ya...So-called "fair trade" is just a ruse used by retailers to sort for people who will pay more for the same product.

True story.

 

[Paulie]

There's never been free trade in the US.

Just like there's never been a free market.

Unless you ask a liberal, of course.