My Solution to Address North Korea Provocations

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

IMO, the time for diplomacy is over. The little pinhead wants to nuke us. I want us to eliminate him first, one way or the other

The fat kid (probably) knows that South Korea & Japan are his best leverage, and he'd be right. I'd be VERY curious to know what back-channel conversations are going on between us and China on this right now. Assuming that we've thought to do that. I'd also wonder if there's some way South Korea & Japan could get involved.

Come to think of it, that could be an interest ploy: Having a very un-secret special security meeting between us, South Korea and Japan.
.

And give Japan some of our older medium range nuclear missiles.

Japan's constitution bans their having nuclear weapons and any military besides a self-defense force. That would require major changes on their part.

 

[Mac1958]

It's a real disappointment that China ultimately had this little influence.

That's where you're wrong. What exactly has trump offered to China in exchange for their assistance in solving our problem? Such as a substantial drawdown of our military presence in South Korea. .

I don't know. He's been on the job for six months. What did Obama offer?

Trump is already months behind on defeating Isis so I'm convinced he'll screw this up as well

You didn't answer my question. And unlike you, I'll hope for the best, even though I'm not a Trump fan.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

If we offered to cooperate with the Chicoms re-absorbing Taiwan under guidelines similar to what Hong Kong has, everybody might end up happy.

Did you ask the people of Taiwan how they felt about it?

Yes, yes I did.

Each and every one of them, and you know what they told me?

'Go fuck yourself, because your nation will do whatever is in its peoples best interest anyway.'

I wish that they were right, but we seem to be afflicted with this hubris that says we can determine the course of history in some moral and altruistic way.

Altruism does not belong in geopolitics.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Japan's constitution bans their having nuclear weapons and any military besides a self-defense force. That would require major changes on their part.

And they would make that change if we told them we have moved past their WW2 actions and need a nuclear ally in the region and they can stand up to play that role with our blessings.

 

[basquebromance]

"Any kind of effort by North Korea to start a war would lead to severe consequences." - Mad Dog

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If we offered to cooperate with the Chicoms re-absorbing Taiwan under guidelines similar to what Hong Kong has, everybody might end up happy.

Did you ask the people of Taiwan how they felt about it?

Yes, yes I did.

Each and every one of them, and you know what they told me?

'Go fuck yourself, because your nation will do whatever is in its peoples best interest anyway.'

I wish that they were right, but we seem to be afflicted with this hubris that says we can determine the course of history in some moral and altruistic way.

Altruism does not belong in geopolitics.[/QUOTE]

That is very humorous and also quite sad that you might actually think that way.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That is very humorous and also quite sad that you might actually think that way.

The best geopolitical process places realpolitik prior to altruistic preferences.

The other process that places altruism or some other moral values system above realpolitiks litters the graveyards of historical conflict.

 

[OldLady]

No, I'm not saying it is our fault. Not at all. What caused Kim to feel he had to be impregnable? The Emperor thing. Nothing to do with us. But our military response on his borders is fueling his paranoia. I made that clear. You can misinterpret it all you need to.

Yes, our military preparedness feeds that idiots paranoia, but then again, history shows us plenty of examples of such paranoid loons over reacting to common sense preparedness by their neighbors.

And the great mistake is always to try to appease that paranoia by demilitarizing to some degree, which NEVER works.

This type of person only can respect other peoples STRENGTH and thus be dissuaded; weakness only encourages him to feed off his paranoia to justify aggression.

Remember it was the Norkas who attacked S Korea, not the other way around.

He is already aware of our strength--that is the whole point, in his mind. It is NOT dissuading him. Your solution is military. ALL are saying no, and no one wants to "appease" him, just stop him.

 

[dannyboys]

Move to NK commie lover. Kim would welcome you

-Geaux

Which countries will go to war with Trump?

Get your popcorn and wait. Your POTUS has this handled

-Geaux

I don't know how you can be so cocky after Iraq. And back then the rest of the world had our backs. Now it's us alone vs Russia, mexico, Cuba, china, North Korea and middle East.

How will they divide the USA after they defeat us? Will they drag Trump out of a fox hole like Saddam? Track down Trump's two boys like Saddam boys?

I can imagine ISIS sleeper cells, a million asian illegals, mexicans could be living among us we wouldn't know until d day

It's bad enough that the countries you claim will be going to war against the US for cleaning up the mess everyone has left in NK. But PLEASE PLEASE don't claim the Mexico will join in the war against us!
The thought of a bunch of 'beaners' attacking the US with taco shells is TOO much for me to think of!
Oh the humanity when the beaners attack!
You're a fucking dummy!

They don't have to overtly fight us. They can just keep letting terrorists in stupid. Bottom line is you guys fucked up by electing Trump. You don't know what you've done!!! The Axis of Evil is playing us for fools. Obama did the right thing. You guys are going to fuck us biggly.

Korean Peninsula: The last active volcano of the Cold War, the never-officially-ended conflict between North and South Korea has been largely ignored for decades. Now the possibility of someone over there launching a nuclear war is real, or soon will be. This one didn’t start with Trump, but he has little or no leverage. China and Russia, the only two countries that might be able to control Kim Jong Un, are willing to give the North Korean leader a long leash to harass and distract America. They want a double “stand down” that would freeze Kim’s nuclear weapons development while beginning to unwind the U.S. military presence on the peninsula. Trump is simultaneously asking China for help on North Korea and threatening it with new trade sanctions on steel. Good luck.

South China Sea: Xi is delivering pandas to Merkel in Berlin and promising to be a force for global stability and free trade in the face of Trump isolationism. At the same time, with obdurate efficiency, the Chinese are militarizing the South China Sea in hopes of turning it into their own private lake. President Barack Obama sought to unite the Pacific Rim nations against China on this issue; that’s what the Trans-Pacific Partnership was about. Trump withdrew from that trade deal in one of his first moves.

Vladimir Putin: No one in modern history has been better at playing a losing hand. Russia isn’t an inspiration or model to any other nation these days, and its hopelessly corrupt and lawless economy is at the mercy of the price of oil and other commodities. But Putin is popular at home because he has pranked, punked and undermined the U.S. and other Western democracies ― the “winners” of the Cold War ― whenever he can, including, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, in the 2016 campaign.

Putin has already wrested from Trump most of what he wanted: the equal standing that Obama and Hillary Clinton refused to bestow. He doesn’t want much else except to be left alone while his hackers do their dirty cyber work. That means Trump can’t arm-twist Russia on Korea, Syria or Ukraine. If he tries, Putin can always tell CNN what really happened with those fake news stories and sites during the final weeks of the race in Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin.

Europe: In the G-20 host country of Germany, confidence that Trump will do “the right thing” in world affairs is currently at 11 percent. Much of the rest of Europe feels the same, and it was no surprise that Hamburg erupted in mass protests the moment Trump got to town. It’s a long way from Kennedy’s “Ich bin ein Berliner” moment.

Despite a Trump address in Warsaw designed to reassure other NATO countries of America’s commitment to their common defense, the allies were not reassured ― because no one knows who was really speaking in that speech. “That was scripted and he read it from a teleprompter,” an ambassador from one NATO country told me. “We can’t assume that that is what the president believes.”

Trade: Having pulled out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and threatened the European Union, Trump created space for China’s bid to become the next central player in global commerce. Japan just announced a massive new trade deal with the European Union as if to say to the United States, “We don’t need you.”

Why don't you have the common decency to at least use quotation marks when you C&P other peoples work product you ASSHOLE!?
That's right "mass protests" erupted when President Trump arrived for the G-20.
Just like the "mass protests" that have erupted by anarchists everywhere the G-20 has been held.
G-20 "mass protests" have occurred ever since the G-20 began you fucking MORON!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Japan's constitution bans their having nuclear weapons and any military besides a self-defense force. That would require major changes on their part.

And they would make that change if we told them we have moved past their WW2 actions and need a nuclear ally in the region and they can stand up to play that role with our blessings.

One word - Fukishima.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is very humorous and also quite sad that you might actually think that way.

The best geopolitical process places realpolitik prior to altruistic preferences.

The other process that places altruism or some other moral values system above realpolitiks litters the graveyards of historical conflict.

I would say the lack of altruism litters the graveyards.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

How silly. I saw that movie. It was sort of entertaining, though not realistic in any sense.

"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

There is a dispute as to whether the quote is legitimate, but the gist of it is certainly true.

I think you are overestimating our toughness and I'm sure at one time Romans or Brits or Ottomans said the same thing about their empires.

They may have. The difference is we have the power to destroy the planet in about 20 minutes.

So what? So does Russia and China.

Yes they do. It is equally unlikely they would be invaded.

Sealyboohoo doesn't agree with you. He believes the 'real threat' comes from the Mexicans and the Cubans invading the US by parachuting onto football fields in Colorado and then taking over the country.
Read his posts.

Yes, I know. I responded to his "Red Dawn" scenario.

 

[sealybobo]

Which countries will go to war with Trump?

Get your popcorn and wait. Your POTUS has this handled

-Geaux

I don't know how you can be so cocky after Iraq. And back then the rest of the world had our backs. Now it's us alone vs Russia, mexico, Cuba, china, North Korea and middle East.

How will they divide the USA after they defeat us? Will they drag Trump out of a fox hole like Saddam? Track down Trump's two boys like Saddam boys?

I can imagine ISIS sleeper cells, a million asian illegals, mexicans could be living among us we wouldn't know until d day

It's bad enough that the countries you claim will be going to war against the US for cleaning up the mess everyone has left in NK. But PLEASE PLEASE don't claim the Mexico will join in the war against us!
The thought of a bunch of 'beaners' attacking the US with taco shells is TOO much for me to think of!
Oh the humanity when the beaners attack!
You're a fucking dummy!

They don't have to overtly fight us. They can just keep letting terrorists in stupid. Bottom line is you guys fucked up by electing Trump. You don't know what you've done!!! The Axis of Evil is playing us for fools. Obama did the right thing. You guys are going to fuck us biggly.

Korean Peninsula: The last active volcano of the Cold War, the never-officially-ended conflict between North and South Korea has been largely ignored for decades. Now the possibility of someone over there launching a nuclear war is real, or soon will be. This one didn’t start with Trump, but he has little or no leverage. China and Russia, the only two countries that might be able to control Kim Jong Un, are willing to give the North Korean leader a long leash to harass and distract America. They want a double “stand down” that would freeze Kim’s nuclear weapons development while beginning to unwind the U.S. military presence on the peninsula. Trump is simultaneously asking China for help on North Korea and threatening it with new trade sanctions on steel. Good luck.

South China Sea: Xi is delivering pandas to Merkel in Berlin and promising to be a force for global stability and free trade in the face of Trump isolationism. At the same time, with obdurate efficiency, the Chinese are militarizing the South China Sea in hopes of turning it into their own private lake. President Barack Obama sought to unite the Pacific Rim nations against China on this issue; that’s what the Trans-Pacific Partnership was about. Trump withdrew from that trade deal in one of his first moves.

Vladimir Putin: No one in modern history has been better at playing a losing hand. Russia isn’t an inspiration or model to any other nation these days, and its hopelessly corrupt and lawless economy is at the mercy of the price of oil and other commodities. But Putin is popular at home because he has pranked, punked and undermined the U.S. and other Western democracies ― the “winners” of the Cold War ― whenever he can, including, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, in the 2016 campaign.

Putin has already wrested from Trump most of what he wanted: the equal standing that Obama and Hillary Clinton refused to bestow. He doesn’t want much else except to be left alone while his hackers do their dirty cyber work. That means Trump can’t arm-twist Russia on Korea, Syria or Ukraine. If he tries, Putin can always tell CNN what really happened with those fake news stories and sites during the final weeks of the race in Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin.

Europe: In the G-20 host country of Germany, confidence that Trump will do “the right thing” in world affairs is currently at 11 percent. Much of the rest of Europe feels the same, and it was no surprise that Hamburg erupted in mass protests the moment Trump got to town. It’s a long way from Kennedy’s “Ich bin ein Berliner” moment.

Despite a Trump address in Warsaw designed to reassure other NATO countries of America’s commitment to their common defense, the allies were not reassured ― because no one knows who was really speaking in that speech. “That was scripted and he read it from a teleprompter,” an ambassador from one NATO country told me. “We can’t assume that that is what the president believes.”

Trade: Having pulled out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and threatened the European Union, Trump created space for China’s bid to become the next central player in global commerce. Japan just announced a massive new trade deal with the European Union as if to say to the United States, “We don’t need you.”

Why don't you have the common decency to at least use quotation marks when you C&P other peoples work product you ASSHOLE!?
That's right "mass protests" erupted when President Trump arrived for the G-20.
Just like the "mass protests" that have erupted by anarchists everywhere the G-20 has been held.
G-20 "mass protests" have occurred ever since the G-20 began you fucking MORON!

You guys didn't point that out when Obama was President.

And big deal the polacks showed up. They always do too

 

[sealybobo]

I think you are overestimating our toughness and I'm sure at one time Romans or Brits or Ottomans said the same thing about their empires.

They may have. The difference is we have the power to destroy the planet in about 20 minutes.

So what? So does Russia and China.

Yes they do. It is equally unlikely they would be invaded.

Sealyboohoo doesn't agree with you. He believes the 'real threat' comes from the Mexicans and the Cubans invading the US by parachuting onto football fields in Colorado and then taking over the country.
Read his posts.

Yes, I know. I responded to his "Red Dawn" scenario.

Not what I was saying dummies.

But let's look at our recent relationship with Cuba and Mexico. Trump changed the Cuba deal and called Mexicans rapists. Do you two think either country considers Trump a close friend? As close as our buddies the Russians?

You two are stupid

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They may have. The difference is we have the power to destroy the planet in about 20 minutes.

So what? So does Russia and China.

Yes they do. It is equally unlikely they would be invaded.

Sealyboohoo doesn't agree with you. He believes the 'real threat' comes from the Mexicans and the Cubans invading the US by parachuting onto football fields in Colorado and then taking over the country.
Read his posts.

Yes, I know. I responded to his "Red Dawn" scenario.

Not what I was saying dummies.

But let's look at our recent relationship with Cuba and Mexico. Trump changed the Cuba deal and called Mexicans rapists. Do you two think either country considers Trump a close friend? As close as our buddies the Russians?

You two are stupid

Oh dear. That is indeed what you said.

I don't care if they consider Trump a close friend. I expect Mexico to deal on an equitable basis with the US, and I expect Cuba to overthrow their Commie government before expecting anything.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

We can't sit on our hands like Obama did for (8) years. Under his watch he allowed Iran and NK to continue their development of nuclear weapons thus putting America in harms way.

I have an idea...

We respond militarily

But first, we must take steps to mitigate loss of life in South Korea.

If NK launches, or conduct other ballistic/nuclear test, our order of progression should be;

1- We officially notify North Korea of our intent to destroy their assets relative to nuclear and ballistic development. Our response will be carried out if they conduct (1) more missile launch or test of any kind

2- We start the immediate evacuation (voluntary) of the South Korea. Yes, this will be a logistic nightmare beyond all compare. Hopefully, other Nations (certainly) our allies will assist in this massive operation.

3- Move our military troops off the Korean peninsula to an area where our rapid response, via airborne paratroopers, can be delivered. Ground invasion to follow

4- Move multiple Naval battle groups to the area for a massive conventional strike

We have to do something. The result of inaction WILL cost more lives than a pre-emptive strike.

We are at the crossroads and history will be our judge

-Geaux

PYONGYANG UP THE YIN=YANG


Letting a pipsqueak piss in our face and being afraid of being called "bullies" if we retaliate also encourages Muslims to look at us as gutless pushovers. Let NoKo know the full force of what they are up against, not the farce of weakling diplomacy.

 

[Flopper]

So why does North Korea want to nuke the US? Why not Mexico? Why not Australia? Why the US?

Maybe this is a lesson for America to learn, if you don't go around annoying people, then they won't want to nuke you.

Anyway, North Korea almost certainly wants nukes to stop the US having the capabilities to invade North Korea.

Move to NK commie lover. Kim would welcome you

-Geaux

Which countries will go to war with Trump?

China doesn't want war, yet. It's not ready, but it would fight if it had to, and North Korea is right on its border, it's a long way from the US.

Yep.
There is a little matter that most people are unaware or choose to forget. There is mutual defense treaty that is still in effect between China and North Korea. Article 2 of the treaty declares the two nations guarantee to adopt immediately all necessary measures to oppose any country or coalition of countries that might attack either nation. US options are very limited. In the end, the US and South Korea will have to recognize North Korea officially. Or as our great clown in the white house says, we will play nice with them.

I hate to say it, but there is no other good alternative. Even a surgical strike against NK, would almost certainly be met with a military response that would force us to into a full blown war.

Sino-North Korean Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty - Wikipedia

So Obama and Clinton did the right thing and that was nothing? I thought so. And let Kim Jung have a nuke. He won't dare use it on us. Neither would Iran. So who are we to tell them they can't have nukes?

I think trying to prevent them from having nukes is one day to start ww3. But what if we just gave North Korea a nuke? What would they do with it? NOTHING!!! Just like everyone else that has a nuke does nothing with them for christ sakes.

Anyways, Republicans will lead us to war. How many Trump supporters kids will end up dying on the battle field for this decision?

What will most likely happen, is North Korea will become a significant nuclear power and will use that status to bring NK into 21st century. This is probably the best we can hope for. The sooner the US realizes that the better. We can't disarm them without a war that would destroy Korea, with loss of life of both US and Koreans, that would run into hundreds of thousands or possible millions.

Neither Clinton, George Bush, or Obama could solve the problem because there were no good solutions so they did nothing hoping for a regime change. Without assurance from China that they would not honor there mutual defense agreement with North Korea, it would be foolish for the US to engage in an unprovoked attack on NK and that assurance is unlikely.

China has no reason to help the US. They want to maintain the status quo with the US threatened by NK and a divided Korea across the Yellow Sea between the China mainland and Japan. There support for NK is a bargaining chip with the US that they will not likely give up.

 

[sealybobo]

Move to NK commie lover. Kim would welcome you

-Geaux

Which countries will go to war with Trump?

China doesn't want war, yet. It's not ready, but it would fight if it had to, and North Korea is right on its border, it's a long way from the US.

Yep.
There is a little matter that most people are unaware or choose to forget. There is mutual defense treaty that is still in effect between China and North Korea. Article 2 of the treaty declares the two nations guarantee to adopt immediately all necessary measures to oppose any country or coalition of countries that might attack either nation. US options are very limited. In the end, the US and South Korea will have to recognize North Korea officially. Or as our great clown in the white house says, we will play nice with them.

I hate to say it, but there is no other good alternative. Even a surgical strike against NK, would almost certainly be met with a military response that would force us to into a full blown war.

Sino-North Korean Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty - Wikipedia

So Obama and Clinton did the right thing and that was nothing? I thought so. And let Kim Jung have a nuke. He won't dare use it on us. Neither would Iran. So who are we to tell them they can't have nukes?

I think trying to prevent them from having nukes is one day to start ww3. But what if we just gave North Korea a nuke? What would they do with it? NOTHING!!! Just like everyone else that has a nuke does nothing with them for christ sakes.

Anyways, Republicans will lead us to war. How many Trump supporters kids will end up dying on the battle field for this decision?

What will most likely happen, is North Korea will become a significant nuclear power and will use that status to bring NK into 21st century. This is probably the best we can hope for. The sooner the US realizes that the better. We can't disarm them without a war that would destroy Korea, with loss of life both US and Korean, that would run in hundreds of thousands or possible millions.

Neither Clinton, George Bush, or Obama could solve the problem because there were no good solutions so they did nothing hoping for a regime change. Without assurance from China that they would not honor there mutual defense agreement with North Korea, it would be foolish for the US to engage in an unprovoked attack on NK and that assurance is unlikely.

China has no reason to help the US. They want to maintain the status quo with the US threatened by NK and a divided Korea across the Yellow Sea between China mainland and Japan. There support for NK is a bargain chip with the US that they will not likely give up.

I hear Trump fucked up biggly by backing out of the trans atlantic partnership. That was going to make us more relevant in the area.

I tell you what. I was really hoping that the Republicans would be exposed for the full of shit talkers they are. In other words, I'm certainly not hoping that Trump does something stupid like all these USMB idiots are suggesting he should do. I just wanted to say "I told you so" to them when Trump and Republicans ultimately do exactly what Obama did and that's nothing.

But Republicans have proven they are different than Democrats when it comes to war. They will invade even if it is a mistake for America. Why? Because it wasn't a mistake for the oil companies and defense contractors. A quagmire means endless profits from an endless war. Iraq proved that. Republicans think Trump is different but he's being controlled by the same right wing idiots that told Bush what to do.

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia

Of the twenty-five people who signed PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz. Observers such as Irwin Stelzer and Dave Grondin have suggested that the PNAC played a key role in shaping the foreign policy of the Bush Administration, particularly in building support for the Iraq War.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Some little brained tarts are still clinging to their whole Pnac world conspiracy theories....

Precious !!! Lol

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, I'm not saying it is our fault. Not at all. What caused Kim to feel he had to be impregnable? The Emperor thing. Nothing to do with us. But our military response on his borders is fueling his paranoia. I made that clear. You can misinterpret it all you need to.

Yes, our military preparedness feeds that idiots paranoia, but then again, history shows us plenty of examples of such paranoid loons over reacting to common sense preparedness by their neighbors.

And the great mistake is always to try to appease that paranoia by demilitarizing to some degree, which NEVER works.

This type of person only can respect other peoples STRENGTH and thus be dissuaded; weakness only encourages him to feed off his paranoia to justify aggression.

Remember it was the Norkas who attacked S Korea, not the other way around.

He is already aware of our strength--that is the whole point, in his mind. It is NOT dissuading him. Your solution is military. ALL are saying no, and no one wants to "appease" him, just stop him.

Giving in to his demands as we have been doing for the last thirty years has not been stopping him or his predecessors.