Muslim threats force out disabled teacher with dog

[Ravi]

Allie, why are you going to all this trouble to excuse gay bashers?

 

[Anguille]

Sure it does. If they know the kid will suffer, they have a choice to be childless, and they choose to have a child anyway. That's putting the child second.
It isn't particular to gay parents, but it's a fact nonetheless.

What are you suggesting? That gays who get pregnant should abort? Being the child of a rape victim and born of that rape can't be any picnic either, yet you applaud rape victims who chose not to abort. You say having the child helps them feel whole again, as if having a child is some kind of therapy. Now if that isn't a selfish reason to bring a baby into this world, I don't know what is.

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie, why are you going to all this trouble to excuse gay bashers?

Where do you come up with this stuff? When did I defend gay bashers? Go ahead, run along now and look that up, because I'm really curious.

 

[Ravi]

What are you suggesting? That gays who get pregnant should abort? Being the child of a rape victim and born of that rape can't be any picnic either, yet you applaud rape victims who chose not to abort. You say having the child helps them feel whole again, as if having a child is some kind of therapy. Now if that isn't a selfish reason to bring a baby into this world, I don't know what is.

She really said that?

 

[Anguille]

Allie, why are you going to all this trouble to excuse gay bashers?

Because Allie, who claims to help victims of abuse, is actually a very abusive person herself.

 

[Ravi]

Where do you come up with this stuff? When did I defend gay bashers? Go ahead, run along now and look that up, because I'm really curious.

You keep saying that it is harmful for gay couples to have children from the children's point of view. The only harm is from gay bashers.

And yet you can't see this. Why don't you go after gay bashers when they are the ones that are doing the harm?

 

[Larkinn]

I'm focusing on your parents because YOU brought them up after YOU made the assumption that I hated gays and after YOU said you were familiar with my "ilk" because your parents were gay.

Because YOU said that I should experience hate. I have, thanks.

We're talking about your parents because you used them while trying to paint me as a hater of gays. Which I'm not. Now we're talking about your parents because Ravir is whining around that I'm some sort of heartless puke because I believe when anyone chooses their own desires over what they know to be best for their kids, it's a selfish choice.

Good grief. If you didn't want them brought into it, you shouldn't have beat me over the head with them.

I didn't. I said it to make a point, YOU took it further and brought your opinions about my parents into it when you said:

A good example of what having gay parents will do to a kid.
You're hostile, confused, and neurotic. Don't blame me.

And yes, it IS your "ilk" that bashes gays. Its not the liberals who give me shit, it never was. Its always the Republicans and Conservatives who want to bash me and my parents, all the while tripping over their feet to say that despite their condemnation, they aren't homophobic

 

[Anguille]

She really said that?

She quoted an article about how many rape victims choose to go through with the pregnancy and how good it was for those who did and how one rape victim who aborted, later felt that the abortion fucked her up emotionally more than the rape did.
When I gave the example of a woman I knew who was talked out of an abortion who felt she was fucked up emotionally by not having the abortion, Allie went ape shit.

 

[AllieBaba]

What are you suggesting? That gays who get pregnant should abort? Being the child of a rape victim and born of that rape can't be any picnic either, yet you applaud rape victims who chose not to abort. You say having the child helps them feel whole again, as if having a child is some kind of therapy. Now if that isn't a selfish reason to bring a baby into this world, I don't know what is.

Nope. Let's just go with the things I actually say. We were discussing the adoption of children into gay families.
I said choosing to adopt a child and bringing a child into a situation that you know will cause the child pain is a selfish choice. I quantified that several times, and stated it is not the sort of choice that is particular to gay parents only, but you guys just want to read what you read, and you discard everything that doesn't go with your preconceived notions of what you think I mean.
THe comparison of the biological child of a rape victim, which may be raised by that parent or adopted out, is hardly applicable. A rape victim doesn't take her kid to school and get pointed out as a rape victim by the kids. A kid who has two parents/one sex is going to get noticed. It's also not a valid comparison because the rape victim, being pregnant herself, then has to choose after the fact. It's not a matter of saying, "Oh, I think I'll go out and get raped and raise a disadvantaged kid because I really want one." It's a matter of having to decide what to do AFTER an unexpected, unplanned pregnancy.
The matter we were discussing involves the conscious decision to obtain a child and bring him into a home, knowing that he will be at a disadvantage. And if you'll read my posts, you'll see that I acknowledged that the advantages might outweigh the disadvantages.

Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your mental picture of me as a gay-bashing homophobe.

Oh, Ravir...how's the search for my "justification" for gay bashing going?

 

[Ravi]

Oh, Ravir...how's the search for my "justification" for gay bashing going?

It's in every post that you blame gay parents for choosing to harm children.

Why are you not blaming the gay bashers for choosing to harm children?

 

[AllieBaba]

She quoted an article about how many rape victims choose to go through with the pregnancy and how good it was for those who did and how one rape victim who aborted, later felt that the abortion fucked her up emotionally more than the rape did.
When I gave the example of a woman I knew who was talked out of an abortion who felt she was fucked up emotionally by not having the abortion, Allie went ape shit.

I, and others, went ape shit because you were using your friend as an example of someone who had "remorse" because instead of delivering a baby and giving it up for adoption, she wished she had killed it, thus sparing herself the inconvenience of pregnancy and the horrible trauma of having to think about where that baby was later.

And I didn't quote an article at all. I said I had read an article or watched a show where one woman had spoken of raising her child by rape.

All you're doing is proving, over and over, that you're a bigot, that the truth doesn't make any difference, and if you hear certain words, your response is automatic, irrational, and inaccurate. You're lying, attributing things to me which I did not say and giving me motives which I do not have.

Ravir, any luck with finding that post where I'm defending gay-bashing? Or where I've bashed gays?

 

[Anguille]

Because YOU said that I should experience hate. I have, thanks.



I didn't. I said it to make a point, YOU took it further and brought your opinions about my parents into it when you said:



And yes, it IS your "ilk" that bashes gays. Its not the liberals who give me shit, it never was. Its always the Republicans and Conservatives who want to bash me and my parents, all the while tripping over their feet to say that despite their condemnation, they aren't homophobic

Just curious, Larkinn, did other kids give you a hard time over it? I'm not sure how old you are.
I had a discussion similar to this one a little while ago with a friend who insisted gays should not be allowed to adopt, not because gays can't be good parents, he said, but because he claimed they would be teased and tortured by the other kids. My argument to him was that kids today are beyond all that. It seems that many of the kids I come into contact with have little if no prejudice against gays.

 

[AllieBaba]

Because YOU said that I should experience hate. I have, thanks.



I didn't. I said it to make a point, YOU took it further and brought your opinions about my parents into it when you said:



And yes, it IS your "ilk" that bashes gays. Its not the liberals who give me shit, it never was. Its always the Republicans and Conservatives who want to bash me and my parents, all the while tripping over their feet to say that despite their condemnation, they aren't homophobic

Yes, well, since it's been shown in this very thread that you make assumptions which are at best, mistaken, at worst, dishonest, and attribute "hate" where none is intended, I'll take that with a grain of salt. My guess is that you were just as mistaken in reading their "hatred" as you were in reading mine.

No doubt because you were taught to hate all those who don't subscribe to gay marriage.

 

[Larkinn]

Just curious, Larkinn, did other kids give you a hard time over it? I'm not sure how old you are.

Some, yes. I went to a hippie dippie private school until 5th grade. That was fine. When I went to public school there were some issues. Its also a weird thing to bring up to people, because some people are just so vitriolic about it, its crazy. And you don't want to have a friend come over and just sort of "find out" cause you live with 2 women.

I had a discussion similar to this one a little while ago with a friend who insisted gays should not be allowed to adopt, not because gays can't be good parents, he said, but because he claimed they would be teased and tortured by the other kids. My argument to him was that kids today are beyond all that. It seems that many of the kids I come into contact with have little if no prejudice against gays.

I'm 24 years old, one of the first of my generation actually. I survived and turned out more than fine. It is definitely getting easier for people, its a lot different now than it was 10 years ago. Its also different because more and more gays are having kids. I was born in 1984....I'm not even sure if IVF was around back then.

Honestly, all kids are teased. I know kids who had it worse than I did because they were shy, or something else was "wrong" with them according to the perverted norms of adolescence. You can't choose your children based on those norms, its foolish. No, my childhood wasn't sunshine and cupcakes, but honestly of all of my friends, all the ones who are interesting had shitty childhoods.

 

[Larkinn]

Yes, well, since it's been shown in this very thread that you make assumptions which are at best, mistaken, at worst, dishonest, and attribute "hate" where none is intended, I'll take that with a grain of salt.

You've shown your stripes Allie.

My guess is that you were just as mistaken in reading their "hatred" as you were in reading mine.

*shrug* get defensive if you want. You said it yourself, if I lived in a liberal community it wouldn't be that bad.

No doubt because you were taught to hate all those who don't subscribe to gay marriage.

And I'm the one making assumptions? There are valid reasons for not subscribing to gay marriage. However people rarely make them. Generally its some version of "letting gays marry will ruin it", as if gays somehow aren't people or their relationships aren't worthwhile.

 

[AllieBaba]

You've shown your stripes Allie.



*shrug* get defensive if you want. You said it yourself, if I lived in a liberal community it wouldn't be that bad.



And I'm the one making assumptions? There are valid reasons for not subscribing to gay marriage. However people rarely make them. Generally its some version of "letting gays marry will ruin it", as if gays somehow aren't people or their relationships aren't worthwhile.

No, you've shown yours. And admitted it.
I'm not defensive, I'm pointing out the obvious. You thought I hated gays because I don't think gay marriage/adoption is a great choice. You were wrong.
Yes,you are the one making assumptions, see above.

 

[Anguille]

I, and others, went ape shit because you were using your friend as an example of someone who had "remorse" because instead of delivering a baby and giving it up for adoption, she wished she had killed it, thus sparing herself the inconvenience of pregnancy and the horrible trauma of having to think about where that baby was later.

And I didn't quote an article at all. I said I had read an article or watched a show where one woman had spoken of raising her child by rape.

All you're doing is proving, over and over, that you're a bigot, that the truth doesn't make any difference, and if you hear certain words, your response is automatic, irrational, and inaccurate. You're lying, attributing things to me which I did not say and giving me motives which I do not have.

Ravir, any luck with finding that post where I'm defending gay-bashing? Or where I've bashed gays?

Sorry, you are right, that was someone else's post. I got you two confused because you posted similar opinions but not those I attributed to you earlier.

Still, I am curious as to why you would think a child of a rape would not be born into a potentially more harmful situation than the child of gays? A child of rape is not planned for and just because the mother choses to go ahead and bear it, doesn't mean she does it out of love. She may be doing it because she doesn't believe in abortion. I should think that no matter how good someone's intentions are, it is very difficult not to feel ambivalent at times about a child you had to bear because you were raped. Hell, parents who planned for their children feel ambivalent at times about them.

 

[Larkinn]

No, you've shown yours. And admitted it.

I'm not defensive, I'm pointing out the obvious.

But somehow disagree with me, when I agree with that statement.

You thought I hated gays because I don't think gay marriage/adoption is a great choice.

As I said, not a great leap. You didn't say "not a great choice", you said I was hostile, and confused, and something else because my parents were gay.

Yes,you are the one making assumptions, see above.

As are you, which I've pointed out.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Veering back a bit to the original topic…

In a Muslim country both jillian and Larkinn's two mommies would be buried up to their necks and stoned to death.

It's pretty amusing to watch liberals burp up their leftist propaganda and hatred for harmless Christians while they deny and even defend actual Muslim religious threats to their dear right of "freedom from religion". Feeble-minded liberals "tolerate" "multicultural" differences that are obviously causing harm to American society yet they become rabid antagonists against law-abiding Christians who only want to support life and maintain our good society.

MN Muslims cause a handicapped student teacher to leave…afraid for his service dog.

MN Muslim taxi drivers refuse to carry passengers with seeing-eye dogs.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/muslim-cabbies-wont-carry-seeing-eye-dogs-in-australia

MN Muslim taxi drivers refuse to carry passengers with liquor.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/25/oppenheim.cabbies/index.html

MN Muslims institute Islamic Studies in a tax-payer funded school.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61129

Why is the ACLU out to lunch in MN?

Liberals are Christian-bashing, gay-loving idiots.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sorry, you are right, that was someone else's post. I got you two confused because you posted similar opinions but not those I attributed to you earlier.

Still, I am curious as to why you would think a child of a rape would not be born into a potentially more harmful situation than the child of gays? A child of rape is not planned for and just because the mother choses to go ahead and bear it, doesn't mean she does it out of love. She may be doing it because she doesn't believe in abortion. I should think that no matter how good someone's intentions are, it is very difficult not to feel ambivalent at times about a child you had to bear because you were raped. Hell, parents who planned for their children feel ambivalent at times about them.

For one thing, other children cannot "see" the difference in a child of rape's situation. And I don't see how the child of a rape victim is born into a potentially "harmful" situation. Rape victims and their children aren't typically targeted by bigots and called names in school. I don't think kids typically make fun of them when their mom comes to school plays alone. Unlike the child of gay parents, who gets to deal with kids seeing his parents together....
As I already stated, a child who is the result from rape is a situation to be dealt with. Not a situation that anyone chooses intentionally. I really don't think anyone "chooses" to be raped and have a child. But gays do "choose" to adopt children. They choose to bring their children into a situation which everyone here has agreed is fraught with contention, pain, etc. A woman who has been raped didn't make that choice. She had it forced upon her.
And I haven't once said gays are bad parents. I've certainly never said they're bad parents because they're gay.
As usual, what I'm actually saying and what's being heard by those who think I must mean something else are two different things. Ask Ravir. Whose post in response to my "provide some proof that I'm supporting gay bashing" brought nothing but drivel and her own justification for making inaccurate assumptions and posting a lie.