Muslim Men!

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by janeeng, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. janeeng
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    janeeng Guest

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    Found this reply in a chat forum, thought it was pretty interesting!!!


    Alagbede


    One of the most insidious aspects of Islamic fundamentalism is the sexual repression that it imposes on its followers. Muslim youths are forbidden from interacting with members of the opposite gender until such time as the familiy arranges marriages between those deemed to have "come of age". Muslim women are shrouded head-to-toe in ridiculous stifling robes, presumably to prevent men from becoming crazed with arousal by a fleeting glimpse of female toenail or hair.

    Little wonder that some of the biggest and most enthusiastic patrons of strip clubs and whore-houses in Europe are middle eastern men who have developed a deprivation induced craving to see and feel female flesh. Little wonder that the central theme of the last letter written by World Trade Center suicide pilot Mohammed Atta dwelled on his anticipated bouts of wanton sex with the "brown eyed women of paradise", whom he expected to meet after his mortal remains were vaporised in that fireball, along with those of thousands of innocents.

    This hypocritical and obsessive love/hate pre-occupation with sex by muslim cultures manifested itself in one of its most bizarre and idiotic interpretations back in the Iran/Iraq war of the 1980's. Waves of brainwashed young military conscripts were sent to the battle front with gold-painted keys strung around their necks, on the orders of the late Ayatollah Khomeni of Iran. Those young men, many of whom also applied liberal amounts of facial cosmetic make-up, had been convinced that those golden keys on a string around their necks would fit the gates of heaven beyond which standard allocations of 7 fresh virgins awaited each battlefield martyr. Thousands of horny Iranian boys died on the battle field as they deliberately stood up and walked into withering artillery and machinegun fire, or volunteered to serve as human mine sweepers and were blown to bits by the truckload.

    As Nigerians who live in the west and embrace its culture of tolerance and sexual permissiveness, we can afford to chuckle at the sick antics of sex-crazed muslim suicide cults, but we should also remember that even as we sit here in relative safety, a wave of Islamic fundamentalism is sweeping accross the northern reaches of our country, as evidenced by the introduction of Islamic Sharia law, which essentially imports the most malignant aspects of middle eastern religious dogma to a largely willing horde of illiterates north of the Niger and Benue Rivers.

    All it would take would be for some military officer of northern extraction to grab the reins of power in a coup, and next thing you know, Nigeria, the most populous black nation on planet earth, would descend into a h*llish hotbed of Taliban-style collective insanity.
     
  2. Spirit_Soul
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    I couldn't stop laughing at this post , it is hilarious :clap1: .

    Islam does not to suppress the sexuality, it organizes it. They just are prohibited to have sex until they get married.

    There is nothing wrong or too crazy about that. Everyone has sexual cravings and everyone also has self control. It is not like if you control your urges you become a sex obsessed maniac.

    The reason muslim women cover their skin with cloth is to let themselves get treated as one in the crowd and not like a piece of meat made for a man to enjoy.

    here is an article about how modern muslim women have some restrictions when working with others...

    RELIGIOUS GUIDELINES FOR WORKING MUSLIM WOMEN

    Introduction
    While it is generally acceptable for women in modern society to work as a means of pursuing higher income for the family and to play a role in contributing to their society, it is of utmost important for both men and women to guard themselves from indulging in activities or to be in an environment that may lead them to commit sins. Below are some guidelines that we hope would be of assistance to working women.

    Dress Code
    Muslim ladies should dress well. By all means be abreast with the latest fashions. However, please, observe the community's standard of decency.

    Use perfume, but be moderate, that is not too strong so as to attracting attention. As far as possible try to put on a head cover. A normal scarf or "selendang" will do.

    Mixing With Men.
    Working women, on many occasions have to meet or work side by side men. In many jobs, meeting, talking and dealing with non-muhrim men sometimes means a daily affair.

    Such ladies should be extremely careful and always be prepared, as many have fallen into the trap of satan. Many a happy family is destroyed because the partner has fallen in love with some one found at the working place.

    A few tips:
    1. Never be with a man alone in a locked room. If you have to, keep the door open. Try to be in an office with many people.
    2. Avoid chating, joking extensively with men. When talking or sitting with men don't be too close.
    3. Avoid going to lunch, tea or dinner with non-muhrim man. If you have to, go in a group that consists of more than one women and avoid late nights.
    4. Be polite.
    5. Have strong iman.

    Shaking hands with men.
    Avoid shaking hands with men if possible as the prophet says that he never shook hands with women. However in an unavoidable situation, have a clean intention (niat).

    According to the Hanafi school, touching a non muhrim without cover to the skin does not make the ablution void.

    According to Maliki school, touching a non muhrim without cover to the skin does not make the ablution void as long as there is no sexually desire. The late Prof. Hamka, a leading Indonesian scholar once said, "If a women wanted to shake and kiss my hand with good intentions, I would allow it".




    Prayer.
    Most working women find it difficult to pray on time. Sometimes due to space constrains, sometimes due to time constraints.

    In these cases, firstly as a Muslim, at the time of prayer, effort should be made to pray on time. Create the place. If you plan sincerely, it is not difficult. After all many have done it.

    If you have good reasons, it is alright to pray Asar during Dhohor or Isyak during Maghrib. It is called takdeem (doing it earlier).

    If you have good reasons, it is also alright to pray Dhohor at Asar time or Maghrib at Isyak time. It is called tak-kheer (doing later). To pray tak-kheer for Dhohor at Asar it is important to have the intention (niat) mention at the time of Dhohor. Similarly for Maghrib and Isyak.

    For Dhohor, Asar and Isyak it should be four Rakaat. For Maghrib, it is three Rakaat as there are not shortened (Qasar) prayers. Shortening of prayers is usually done during travelling.

    Failing which, prayers should be Qadak (doing it at other time). It can be done anytime, day or night but preferable not after Subuh or Asar. However, please, don't miss your prayer.

    At home
    A married-working women needs an understanding husband for her contributing to household work is limited. With proper planning and sharing things will work out just fine.

    Last but not least.
    Get a good job. Aim high. Something that gives good returns and at the same time provides enough time for the family and allows you to practise your religion.

    May God the Almighty guide, protect and assist all working and career Muslim Women in their contributions to their family and society. Amin


    Syed Hassan bin Muhammad Al-Attas
    Imam
    Ba'alwi Mosque
    Singapore


    So, it is perfectly fine.

    However, I don't understand one thing, that is big beards for Muslim men, why is that?


    :ali: look at our good friend ali here, he too has a beard.
     
  3. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Christians and Jews are also prohibited from having sex before marraige. The difference is that, in these two religions, men do not place the onus of keeping themselves from lust on women. Thus, there is no need for such guidelines (i.e. the article you just posted) in Christianity/Judaism. The only guidelines really are that you are not to look or think lustfully about people (save your spouse) and you should not encourage others to think lustfully about you. And you are right - people should have self-control. But in Muslim societies, it has gotten to the point where a mens' inability to control their passions has led to them insisting that women take all the necessary steps to cover themselves, so that men won't have lustful thoughts - in other words, instead of self control, they force women to dress differently.
     
  4. Spirit_Soul
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    I disagree, sexual urges are hard to control when there is a increase in "wanting" and when it is provoked.

    You may say that they are forcing women to be that way, but I think they are protecting them from the occasional glances and looks from most men. I think that they are also protecting men from being sex slaves to women's bodies. :p

    Most young women/girls (mature teen 17-19 and adults) today are wearing or are "forced" to wear in our society do create exploitatory urges in males. It is sexual exploitation on a large scale. So, this can be argued both ways.

    So, I do not think it is fair for you to attack their beliefs just because they do not let women expose themselves in such degrading way to both females and males.

    Thank you.
     
  5. jimnyc
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    Are they perverted fanatics as well? So instead of having unwanted sexual urges, they have oppression and abuse of women. Nice trade off!

    Protecting them by FORCING them to dress in a particular way. Tell me, what happens to a woman if she goes out in public and DOESN'T dress this way?

    No, they CHOOSE to dress that way. The beauty of having choices is that they can choose not to dress in that manner as well.

    And yes, I get urges when I see a hot chick walking down the road! So what? What's the point? My day continues from that point on just as it would have if I didn't see her dressed that way.

    How can it be exploitation if the woman chooses to dress a certain way? She is a willing participant!

    I think what is degrading here is the constant abuse these muslim women have to endure.

    What if my religion thought it was necessary to not let women see the light of day, and that they needed to be shackled to the radiator in order to ward off evil. Since it is my religious belief, does that make it acceptable?

    You're quite welcome.
     
  6. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Sexual urges are hard to control regardless. There is no difference in the way an Arab man's brain is wired vs. an American man's brain - every guy is wired to think about sex.
    And if the women want to be "protected" from looks and glances, that's great. Let her decide for herself. If she wants to get glances, great - let her decide for herself. As far as "protecting men from being sex slaves to women's bodies," see my first paragraph - guys are going to think about sex regardless. And it doesn't make us "sex slaves."
    I totally agree with Jim - no woman is forced to wear a certain style of clothing just because Britney wore it in her latest MTV video. I see tons of women every day who wear very fashionable clothing that is also modest - it makes them look beautiful without making them look slutty. There's a huge difference.
    And I am not attacking their beliefs because I want Arab chicks to show some skin. It's because I feel that a woman should be able to choose what kind of clothes she wears without a mob of men accusing her of provoking lust in their hearts.
     
  7. Spirit_Soul
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    Jim: Are they perverted fanatics as well? So instead of having unwanted sexual urges, they have oppression and abuse of women. Nice trade off!

    SS: Yes, they are fanatics, but they are not perverted. Their religion does not say "abuse women", in fact no religion says you can abuse women.

    Jim: Protecting them by FORCING them to dress in a particular way. Tell me, what happens to a woman if she goes out in public and DOESN'T dress this way?


    SS: People in their culture are brought up that way and what you are doing here is attacking the culture. Many muslim women in states chose to cover their hair and body completely with cloth even though they know they have a choice. Jimnyc, reality is a completely different thing and you might say I am odd, but by looking at your statements, I would kindly say that it is .

    Jim: No, they CHOOSE to dress that way. The beauty of having choices is that they can choose not to dress in that manner as well.

    SS: When I used the term 'force' I was trying to say that they are brought up that way and the only way they do dress is the way they are brought up. It is not neccessarily a bad thing, but you can "choose" one to be the gift of God and another to be the evil from the underworld itself (it happens on both sides) :p .

    Jim: How can it be exploitation if the woman chooses to dress a certain way? She is a willing participant!

    SS: lets say you are told that you are a slave to some guy from your childhood. You are given dolls that are to promote those thoughts , you are made to dream of being slaves.. oh yes even the media advertises for you to be a slave. So, lets agree that it is not bondage for you, because you have been brought up to be a slave.

    Jim: What if my religion thought it was necessary to not let women see the light of day, and that they needed to be shackled to the radiator in order to ward off evil. Since it is my religious belief, does that make it acceptable?

    SS: No, it would not. Islam does not say that either , you should atleast try to honestly read about it if you are so interested in this religion.

    Jim: I think what is degrading here is the constant abuse these muslim women have to endure.

    SS: true, what is degrading here is the constant abuse many women world wide (including U.S.A) have to endure.

    Jim: And yes, I get urges when I see a hot chick walking down the road! So what? What's the point? My day continues from that point on just as it would have if I didn't see her dressed that way.

    SS: that is a different issue altogether.
     
  8. jimnyc
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    Wow, written just like a movie script!

    I'm just going to reply to a few as I don't have much time until later this evening.

    I'm noy saying it does specifically, but it would seem as a high percentage of Muslims interpret it that way.

    In many Muslim cultures, a woman will be severely punished if not killed if she doesn't wear her Burka. I am not attacking that as a culture, I'm attacking that as sheer stupidity. Having them dress in a fashion dictated by others is one thing, punishing them in this manner is unacceptable. You can call me what you like, but my reference to you being odd is supporting ways such as this one. How can you not condemn a woman taking a beating if she doesn't dress a certain way? I can't think of ANY reason why a woman may deserve a beating. Ok, maybe a few :D

    It's not ok for me to mistreat/abuse a woman if thats what my religion calls for, but it's ok for Muslim men to mistreat/abuse/punish women when they don't dress according to what Islamic faith calls for?
     

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