More BS from Washington

[JakeStarkey]

The commanding "brass" from President Obama all the way to junior officers, chief warrants, and senior NCOs are political in the sense that the military is not apolitical. For instance, integration of race in 1948 was political, the integration of women in the 70s and 80s was political, and the admission of open sexual orientation is now political.

These are social engineering programs, they are political as well as social and cultural and military, and they are perfectly constitutional.

You certainly can agree or disagree, but your opinion, just like the discharged individual's, does not matter.

Political stances are OK'd by the brass, not by the service personnel. Right?

We all swore to follow the orders of those lawfully appointed over us. Right?

We are bitching because a Marine took upon himself the right to make policy. Right?

Military members in uniform are expected to be apolitical. No participation in political activities or events, because it could signal a political stance by the Armed Forces.

So, Ollie is pointing out that a Marine got the boot for posting anti-Obama speech online but then they okay marching by service members in uniform in support of a position in a political issue. It's contradictory, and indicates a favoritism for those who are aligned with Obama policies and the opposite for those who oppose them.

The point here Jake, is that "the brass", should not take it upon themselves to alter military regulations to support the political agenda of ANY particular political administration, which is precisely what has been done here, no matter how much said general officer(s) are pressured to do so. If necessary, an officer ought to resign, rather than carry out any such political "directive" (which is a clear abuse of power to begin with) and publicly state the reason for said resignation. Professional integrity is more important than anyone's career, but I guess too many years wandering around the Pentagon and going to balls on Embassy Row makes too many forget that.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Ollie,

In what kinds parades are active duty troops allowed to march in uniform? Does this rule apply only to active duty, or are Reserve units similarly restricted?

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product. This is a political movement and the person that gave the permission for it needs to retire. Not only that but because of this I hope the marine that was given an other than honorable discharge for breaking the same DOD directive sues and gets his Discharge changed to an Honorable.

Rightwinger wrote, and I agree, that Gay Pride is apolitical but Gay Rights would be political. How is a Gay Pride parade different from a Thanksgiving Parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade? Is a Labor Day Parade political? It supports worker's rights?

Oh, I don't know...I see a couple of differences...

 

[gallantwarrior]

US Marines marching in uniform in a St Patricks Day Parade

Now if Marines can march in an event celebrating Irish pride, why can't they march in an event celebrating Gay pride?

Because the Gay community has made being Gay political these days, or don't you follow that? You know damned well that they have and you know which politics they back.......

No, I do not follow that

Being gay is not political. Saying "I am not ashamed of being gay" is not political.

There are many, many political issues associated with the St Patricks day parade. There used to be a heavy IRA presence. And yet, Military members could always march in the parade and say..I am Irish and I am proud

Wearing your uniform is political.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Ollie is obviously a raging Homophobe.

What he conveniently forgets is, that he served to protect the rights of ALL AMERICANS, not just those he agrees with.

Military in Uniform at NASCAR races: OK.
Military in uniform at NHRA Races (With Army Sponsored race cars): OK.
Military in uniform at Gay Pride parades: Not OK.

Uh, what?

Oh and by the way, Romney isn't gonna' change anything. He gonna' do what he's told by his Masters just like Obama is doing now. Suckers!

What part of against regulations is so fucking difficult for an asshole like you to understand? Politics is politics and the gay issue has become political. It is wrong.

What part of "they got a waiver" is so fucking difficult for an asshole like you to understand?

You made a career obeying orders. OBEY!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product.

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

 

[whitehall]

Information is the left's worst enemy. They jump through hoops to try to eliminate talk radio personalities they don't agree with and they often use the incredible power of government to try to bring information back to the good old days when the only news available to the public was filtered through Cronkite and Dan Rather. If you see censorship happening in the military think about how the left would like to see it extended to the private sector if only they could push the total socialist revolution through.

 

[The Gadfly]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product.

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

YOU are the hypocrite. Tell me, does placing an army recruiting ad on CBS "commercially endorse" CBS? That's what you implied with the above silliness; I'd love to see you try to make that case in ANY court, civil or military. Attempt at diversion-FAIL! Drawing a false equivalence between THAT and a political endorsement while in uniform? Even YOU aren't that stupid-close maybe, but not quite!

Oh, and for you, Jake, there's no equivalence between changing or waiving regulations on political expression by uniformed personnel, and integrating the military, or expanding the role of women in the military, or even repealing DADT. This is NOT "social engineering", it is a bald faced attempt to blatantly politicize our Armed Forces, an act dangerous at best, and treasonous at worst. What's next, uniformed military personnel at Obama rallies? I would not be surprised! This is America, NOT Nazi Germany, and the very thought ought to be repugnant to ANY American, but not democrats, who, one supposes, want our troops to become Obama's personal version of the Schutzstaffel! Next, I suppose you'll want to change the oath of service from the Constitution to the person of "Dear Leader"! My comments on whoever did this still stand; I'd salute the rank, but not the individual wearing it, as that individual has sacrificed integrity (the kind I learned in OCS), for career and cheap political expediency, and as a result is not fit to shine a slick-sleeve private's boots, much less be an officer! I could say the same thing for the scrawny little dictator who ordered him to do it, too, except that he's a permanent civilian, and thus doesn't know any better.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Gadfly (whose rant pertains not at all) and so many others immorally and stubbornly refuse to get the point: the brass makes policy, the officers and enlisted carry those policies out.

I suggest to those of you who never served and those of you who have served, read the oath again.

The orders of the brass are lawful orders, and a person wearing an uniform where prohibited by regulation or lawful order is a difference of kind and degree than all of the possible evils suggested by some.

 

[PratchettFan]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product.

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

YOU are the hypocrite. Tell me, does placing an army recruiting ad on CBS "commercially endorse" CBS? That's what you implied with the above silliness; I'd love to see you try to make that case in ANY court, civil or military. Attempt at diversion-FAIL! Drawing a false equivalence between THAT and a political endorsement while in uniform? Even YOU aren't that stupid-close maybe, but not quite!

Oh, and for you, Jake, there's no equivalence between changing or waiving regulations on political expression by uniformed personnel, and integrating the military, or expanding the role of women in the military, or even repealing DADT. This is NOT "social engineering", it is a bald faced attempt to blatantly politicize our Armed Forces, an act dangerous at best, and treasonous at worst. What's next, uniformed military personnel at Obama rallies? I would not be surprised! This is America, NOT Nazi Germany, and the very thought ought to be repugnant to ANY American, but not democrats, who, one supposes, want our troops to become Obama's personal version of the Schutzstaffel! Next, I suppose you'll want to change the oath of service from the Constitution to the person of "Dear Leader"! My comments on whoever did this still stand; I'd salute the rank, but not the individual wearing it, as that individual has sacrificed integrity (the kind I learned in OCS), for career and cheap political expediency, and as a result is not fit to shine a slick-sleeve private's boots, much less be an officer! I could say the same thing for the scrawny little dictator who ordered him to do it, too, except that he's a permanent civilian, and thus doesn't know any better.

My, my, my..... How much you read into this.

The pentagon did not order a fly-over by the Blue Angels or order the Marine Marching Band to play a few numbers. A few people asked permission to wear their uniforms and that permission was given. That is all that happened.

Really... get a grip. The world is not coming to an end and no one is going to be dragging you to a concentration camp.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product.

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

In reality the Army car was an advertisement. But I don't expect losers to understand the difference.

When does the military make an exception to a DOD directive? I'm sorry but I don't recall this ever happening for a social experiment before.

Why are the gays who now serve openly in the military being treated with special attention?

Not equal, but special........

But you just keep on hating anything that you don't have a clue about.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Gadfly (whose rant pertains not at all) and so many others immorally and stubbornly refuse to get the point: the brass makes policy, the officers and enlisted carry those policies out.

I suggest to those of you who never served and those of you who have served, read the oath again.

The orders of the brass are lawful orders, and a person wearing an uniform where prohibited by regulation or lawful order is a difference of kind and degree than all of the possible evils suggested by some.

Jake, the order giving this special group, special exemption from a DOD directive was wrong. And that is what I am trying to make people understand. We have on one hand a decorated combat veteran who was given a courts martial and an "Other than Honorable" Discharge for breaking this exact same DOD Directive. Yet this special group is given an exemption because of national pressure.........

It was a bad call and wrong and you know it..........

 

[SFC Ollie]

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

YOU are the hypocrite. Tell me, does placing an army recruiting ad on CBS "commercially endorse" CBS? That's what you implied with the above silliness; I'd love to see you try to make that case in ANY court, civil or military. Attempt at diversion-FAIL! Drawing a false equivalence between THAT and a political endorsement while in uniform? Even YOU aren't that stupid-close maybe, but not quite!

Oh, and for you, Jake, there's no equivalence between changing or waiving regulations on political expression by uniformed personnel, and integrating the military, or expanding the role of women in the military, or even repealing DADT. This is NOT "social engineering", it is a bald faced attempt to blatantly politicize our Armed Forces, an act dangerous at best, and treasonous at worst. What's next, uniformed military personnel at Obama rallies? I would not be surprised! This is America, NOT Nazi Germany, and the very thought ought to be repugnant to ANY American, but not democrats, who, one supposes, want our troops to become Obama's personal version of the Schutzstaffel! Next, I suppose you'll want to change the oath of service from the Constitution to the person of "Dear Leader"! My comments on whoever did this still stand; I'd salute the rank, but not the individual wearing it, as that individual has sacrificed integrity (the kind I learned in OCS), for career and cheap political expediency, and as a result is not fit to shine a slick-sleeve private's boots, much less be an officer! I could say the same thing for the scrawny little dictator who ordered him to do it, too, except that he's a permanent civilian, and thus doesn't know any better.

My, my, my..... How much you read into this.

The pentagon did not order a fly-over by the Blue Angels or order the Marine Marching Band to play a few numbers. A few people asked permission to wear their uniforms and that permission was given. That is all that happened.

Really... get a grip. The world is not coming to an end and no one is going to be dragging you to a concentration camp.

And that call was wrong..........

 

[rightwinger]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product.

NHRA Races are NOT A commercial product?
NASCAR Races are NOT a commercial product?
The UFC is NOT a commercial product?

Looks like the Army Command is a bunch of hypocrites.

Also, don't watch these telecasts Ollie, there may be GAYS participating in them! You don't need ANOTHER coronary!

In reality the Army car was an advertisement. But I don't expect losers to understand the difference.

When does the military make an exception to a DOD directive? I'm sorry but I don't recall this ever happening for a social experiment before.

Why are the gays who now serve openly in the military being treated with special attention?

Not equal, but special........

But you just keep on hating anything that you don't have a clue about.

Is any attention at all considered special attention? If you are serviceman of Irish descent and receive permission to wear your uniform in the St Patricks day parade...is that special attention?

It is a Gay Pride parade. A chance to show you are not ashamed of being gay. If it was a parade in support of gay marriage or gay rights it would be a political event. Being openly gay is not political

They were authorized to wear their uniforms and given instructions on allowable behavior

I know all the old vets still can't get over open homosexuals in the military. They were raised in an environment where you hunt down gays and kick them out. The world has changed and you will get over it

 

[JakeStarkey]

Did the service member disobey knowingly a directive?

You and I rarely were able to "interpret" directives, Ollie. We knew exactly what we could and could not under the UCMJ. Was it the same for this service member.

You and I can disagree with HQs (shoot, I did all the time), but what HQs had the right to make exception and did so.

The Gadfly (whose rant pertains not at all) and so many others immorally and stubbornly refuse to get the point: the brass makes policy, the officers and enlisted carry those policies out.

I suggest to those of you who never served and those of you who have served, read the oath again.

The orders of the brass are lawful orders, and a person wearing an uniform where prohibited by regulation or lawful order is a difference of kind and degree than all of the possible evils suggested by some.

Jake, the order giving this special group, special exemption from a DOD directive was wrong. And that is what I am trying to make people understand. We have on one hand a decorated combat veteran who was given a courts martial and an "Other than Honorable" Discharge for breaking this exact same DOD Directive. Yet this special group is given an exemption because of national pressure.........

It was a bad call and wrong and you know it..........

 

[rightwinger]

Armed forces members in the past have been authorized to wear their uniforms in parades. Up until this year, marching in a gay parade would have been grounds for discharge. Gays are now openly welcomed to serve their country
This is a parade, not a political rally
Mlitary participation was allowed

 

[SFC Ollie]

Armed forces members in the past have been authorized to wear their uniforms in parades. Up until this year, marching in a gay parade would have been grounds for discharge. Gays are now openly welcomed to serve their country
This is a parade, not a political rally
Mlitary participation was allowed

And you actually believe for one moment that there is nothing political about a gay pride parade?

I really thought you were smarter than that........

 

[gallantwarrior]

Armed forces members in the past have been authorized to wear their uniforms in parades. Up until this year, marching in a gay parade would have been grounds for discharge. Gays are now openly welcomed to serve their country
This is a parade, not a political rally
Mlitary participation was allowed

And you actually believe for one moment that there is nothing political about a gay pride parade?

I really thought you were smarter than that........

He's only as bright as his liberal indoctrination allows. Otherwise anything goes, as long as it goes his way.

 

[rightwinger]

Armed forces members in the past have been authorized to wear their uniforms in parades. Up until this year, marching in a gay parade would have been grounds for discharge. Gays are now openly welcomed to serve their country
This is a parade, not a political rally
Mlitary participation was allowed

And you actually believe for one moment that there is nothing political about a gay pride parade?

I really thought you were smarter than that........

I believe to conservatives, the whole parade is political. bunch of gays looking for converts right?

 

[rightwinger]

Cannot endorse any political party or movement or any commercial product. This is a political movement and the person that gave the permission for it needs to retire. Not only that but because of this I hope the marine that was given an other than honorable discharge for breaking the same DOD directive sues and gets his Discharge changed to an Honorable.

Rightwinger wrote, and I agree, that Gay Pride is apolitical but Gay Rights would be political. How is a Gay Pride parade different from a Thanksgiving Parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade? Is a Labor Day Parade political? It supports worker's rights?

Oh, I don't know...I see a couple of differences...

Cool.......boobs

 

[Si modo]

IF the Gay Pride parade has any sort of indication for support or opposition to ANYTHING pertaining to government or politics - marriage rights, etc, - then these guys cannot participate.

So, the onus is on the parade officials to make sure there is NOTHING in that parade that does that.

Otherwise, this is just as OK as them marching in a St. Patty's Day parade - which they've done.

Personally, if I were the troops, I would not trust that parade event NOT to have some sort of political point to make.