Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[JQPublic1]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

 

[haissem123]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

yes. We have a right to re evalutate the worth and wealth of those you say "earned it" at any time as it has been through out history. Now whether we want to wait till this has to be done in a violent revolution, as has been typical redistribution method, or through a more common sense approach of creating a maximum wage or percentage of total earnings of companies, governments etc... is yet to be seen. I still don't understand the lack of historical perspective and knowledge you all seem to have lost and therefore keep repeating. Our vanity keeps telling us that we should be working for ourselves and some of our lack of self worth tells us to work for the major benefit of a few that have chosen to be "A" type personalities and conquers of all around them. This has always proven to be detrimental and totally destructive to our planet and species. Two steps forward and ten steps back. It's time we chose a better way. It's not like we have a choice. Sorry about that.

People earn money in different ways. The less wealthy toil at labor to feed their family. The most wealthy have worked to the point they need not work anymore. Wealth is then earned by investment. Most people earn what they get in one way or another and some do not produce sufficiently to earn their pittance.

when you "earn" your money by investing in companies that devalue your fellow humans to slave labor conditions, inhumane living conditions etc.

I have never seen or read about a bona fide situation as you describe, EXCEPT IN A SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST state in which everyone is poor but the commissar..

. you have only earned a select spot in hell as your world dies and flashes before your eyes and your last cry is 'my God, what have I done!" and we can change our mind but it can be too late.

More bull shit. I have done more for humanity than you have ever even dreamed about. I put my money and my self into it instead of spam a lot of words. Most people at the bottom of the chain are there because of their own choices, ranging from education to criminality. Human nature has put the squash on all of your dreams of self grandeur. I don't know why you are poor, but chances are, you did it to yourself.

 

[haissem123]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

 

[gtopa1]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

You really are clueless. You do understand that wealth is CREATED by the combination of the factors of production...they are interdependent!! however, if you prefer to live in a gunyah out back of Bourke then go for it. I prefer civil society to a waste land.

Greg

 

[ShackledNation]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

I don't disagree. My point is critical of levying different rates of corporate taxes for companies making similar earnings because the government and the companies are in bed with each other.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

I bet more people are poor because of bad choices than are rich because of good choices.

That's certainly true.

 

[haissem123]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

You really are clueless. You do understand that wealth is CREATED by the combination of the factors of production...they are interdependent!! however, if you prefer to live in a gunyah out back of Bourke then go for it. I prefer civil society to a waste land.

Greg

shit like you is created. you are so silly trying to justify delusional self importance and worth to this world or anybody in it. You'/ve done more for mankind then anybody else? lol. you are really funny. your small in number , mind and kind, the self importance assholes of the world, have done more to destroy all that's good in this world then all combined. You create jobs right? lol. well, it doesn't appear that all the real worthy work is getting done. you really better get a grip on yourself and no not your privates again. o hail to greg the great job creater. lol. that's funny

 

[dnsmith35]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

My conscience is clean.

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

Stature on the web is irrelevant. In your case it seems to be your ignorance. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate. If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

Nope! He is not talking to anyone like me. And I don't judge WHO is lazy. God does. So much for your reading ability.

 

[JQPublic1]

quote=dnsmith35]Stature on the web is irrelevant. [/quote]
Oh yeah, then why did you say this:

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS.

You can’t prove that so why say it? That statement does nothing for the credibility of your
“Stature on the web is irrelevant” remark! All it shows is that you want to project that image of yourself for impact whether it is true or not!

I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty.

Go anywhere in Europe and institutional socialism is to be found in about every country in one form or another. Having lived in Germany for three years I left feeling that their
social safety nets and socialized health care is highly regarded by most Germans. Socialism is not Soviet communism…

. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate.

You seem stuck on the notion that correct “choices” is the difference between being rich or less than rich. Is that a wild guess on your part or is it just a passing hunch? While I see the logic in what you say, it isn’t that cut and dry. You have to accept that everyone cannot be millionaires, regardless of choices made.

If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

Keep talking, you are just about to out yourself as a fraud. Economists, inherently rely on numbers to back up their predictions, probabilities etc., etc., where are yours?

 

[dnsmith35]

quote=dnsmith35]Stature on the web is irrelevant.

Oh yeah, then why did you say this:

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS.

You can’t prove that so why say it? That statement does nothing for the credibility of your
“Stature on the web is irrelevant” remark! All it shows is that you want to project that image of yourself for impact whether it is true or not!

ROTFLMAO!

I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty.

Go anywhere in Europe and institutional socialism is to be found in about every country in one form or another. Having lived in Germany for three years I left feeling that their
social safety nets and socialized health care is highly regarded by most Germans. Socialism is not Soviet communism…

Socialism is certainly not Soviet Communism. Actually Soviet was more like what Socialism is, Government owned/or controlled economy. It was never true Communism, just a stage leading to it. But it is typical in the sense that no socialist economy can last for any length of time without dictatorial government. There is no real socialism in Europe, there are only capitalist systems with social programs, some to the point of being a welfare state.

. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate.

You seem stuck on the notion that correct “choices” is the difference between being rich or less than rich. Is that a wild guess on your part or is it just a passing hunch? While I see the logic in what you say, it isn’t that cut and dry. You have to accept that everyone cannot be millionaires, regardless of choices made.

Obviously you didn't read for understanding. Look at my last quote for the clue you missed. Of course there are exceptions, but most successful people made good choices going back to behavior and education. Being stuck on good choices is much more pragmatic than the assumption that most people are unsuccessful because they have been screwed by the "system."

If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

Keep talking, you are just about to out yourself as a fraud. Economists, inherently rely on numbers to back up their predictions, probabilities etc., etc., where are yours?[/QUOTE]And if they are worth reading, they don't have preconceived political biases and expectations. A good economist will use empirical data, determine what the statistics tell them about that data and come to a conclusion skewed by left wing or right wing leanings. If you don't believe that last sentence is etched in stone. See you around because you don't understand the situation well enough to discuss it. BTW, I am a liberal and I support all of the basic liberal tenets, but I don't accept rhetorical propaganda from either extreme.

BTW, I lived in Germany for 12 years, Spain for 3 years, Asia and SE Asia for 5 years. All of which one can buy a cup of coffee for a dollar or two.

 

[JQPublic1]

Look at my last quote for the clue you missed. Of course there are exceptions, but most successful people made good choices going back to behavior and education.

DO YOU mean THIS quote?

The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate.

Your sentence structure is horrific here, I doubt if anyone reading could make any sense of it! If you are indeed an economist, please stick with numbers, English is not your bag!

I
f you don't believe that last sentence is etched in stone. See you around because you don't understand the situation well enough to discuss it.

You’re damn right it’s etched in stone. Unless you remove it quickly that poor sentence structure will be there for all eternity as a testament to your abject stupidity! And that goes for your paragraph just above this one, too!

 

[haissem123]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

My conscience is clean.

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

Stature on the web is irrelevant. In your case it seems to be your ignorance. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate. If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

Nope! He is not talking to anyone like me. And I don't judge WHO is lazy. God does. So much for your reading ability.

Jesus was a socialist. Paul was reformed smoker. If you follow. You can work as hard as you like, but if you are working for yourself, it maybe good to gain the world, but you lose your souls. look around you. you have all sold your souls. hells coming to claim them soon.

 

[dnsmith35]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

Actually no BS at all. I am not wealthy and what I have I did earn through work and my education helped me to do so. If there is ignorance being expended on this thread, it is you doing the crap throwing. The point is, we have lost numerous corporations who have migrated their headquarters to a lower tax country. All of those would have stayed in the US but for the excessive corporate taxation. We would keep many of them here if we taxed the money paid to the share holders such that it would be tax neutral.

Interesting is the way you earlier used the term "rent-seeking." Sounds like the failed attempts of Georgism; a system which has never succeeded without resorting to other taxes to keep the government going. Example: Hong Kong, which has several types of tax besides land valuation tax. In addition, as in Hong Kong, when LVT is used and the user pays the rent to the government, it all works exactly the same as fee-simple property tax on owned land. It is inheritable, it is exclusive to the current occupant, it can be sold just like private land, thus there is no practical difference between one system and the other since if property taxes not paid the land is forfeit.

 

[dnsmith35]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

My conscience is clean.

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

Stature on the web is irrelevant. In your case it seems to be your ignorance. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate. If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

Nope! He is not talking to anyone like me. And I don't judge WHO is lazy. God does. So much for your reading ability.

Jesus was a socialist. Paul was reformed smoker. If you follow. You can work as hard as you like, but if you are working for yourself, it maybe good to gain the world, but you lose your souls. look around you. you have all sold your souls. hells coming to claim them soon.

Paul was a staunch follower of Jesus after his awakening. BTW, all of the words written in the New Testament were actually authored by the followers of Jesus, not by his own hand.

 

[dnsmith35]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

My conscience is clean.

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

Stature on the web is irrelevant. In your case it seems to be your ignorance. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate. If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt. If you look at the Forbes 400 list, you will note that from year to year it changes. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with leaving your wealth to you children. Do you know that all that envy is a sin?

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

Nope! He is not talking to anyone like me. And I don't judge WHO is lazy. God does. So much for your reading ability.

Jesus was a socialist. Paul was reformed smoker. If you follow. You can work as hard as you like, but if you are working for yourself, it maybe good to gain the world, but you lose your souls. look around you. you have all sold your souls. hells coming to claim them soon.

Paul was a staunch follower of Jesus after his awakening. BTW, all of the words written in the New Testament were actually authored by the followers of Jesus, not by his own hand. And those words tell us to care for our brethren while recognizing that one must work to eat (within one's capacity)

 

[haissem123]

I don't try to intimidate anyone, so if you are intimidated by me it is your own conscience. I also did not say YOU said anything about America not experiencing Marxism or Communism. I said it. You should learn to read before you start accusing others. I say it like I see it. If you don't like what I say, please cursor on by.

I told you I was not one to be intimidated by allusions to Marxism or Communism, that is passé , no need to mention it again. Further, my conscience is clear. My sins were more the result of self indulgence rather than the exploitative sort associated with unfeeling material capitalists such as yourself. Are you on your knees with head bowed in supplication to your God? You need to pray for the Lord to unlock your confused mind. You can’t even remember what you posted…let the readers judge!

My conscience is clean.

I have degrees in economics and management and psychology to an EdS. I not only have studied the economic systems of the world, I have lived in a socialist country with socialist government. I am familiar with it 1st hand, and it isn't pretty. I could care less about rich Americans, but most have gotten there by making good choices. If you have observed the Fortune 400 list of the wealthy, it is changing all the time.

You may have all the degrees you say you have but that doesn’t mean you have any greater stature here because of it. The WEB is full of experts in the field of economics who don’t mind sharing some of that expertise. I can pull their data up at any time I feel ”experts” like you are drifting away from reality! The left has its share of economists too, ya know! And I am not so sure that most wealthy Americans got there because they made good choices. Many of them had it handed to them by their parents. They didn’t have to lift a finger to get it!

Stature on the web is irrelevant. In your case it seems to be your ignorance. The point is MOST who didn't get there because of choices. There are always some struck by the golden finger of fate. If an economist is biased either left or right, he is not worth the time it takes to read his opinion. Look at his empirical data studies. If he has none read his opinion with a grain of salt.

What works on you is your problem, not mine. Now to the bible:
The apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Christians:
“Brothers and sisters, keep away from Christians who are lazy. Such people do not live in the way that we taught you. We tell you to do this by the authority that the Lord Jesus Christ gives to us. You yourselves know very well that you should live as we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not depend on any of you for our food without paying for it. No, we worked hard night and day. We earned what we needed. So we did not have to charge you anything at all. We did this, not because we do not have the right to expect such help. But we did it so as to be an example of how you should live. Because when we were with you, we gave you this rule: Whoever refuses to work should not eat.

We say this because we hear that some among you are lazy. They talk about other people but do no work themselves. By the authority that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge them to work quietly. They must earn the money to buy their own food. But you, brothers and sisters, must never tire of doing good things"

Well, Paul wasn’t Jesus was he? Who are YOU to decide who is lazy or not. Had any divine revelations lately? Probably not. You just want to justify your materialistic mantra.
In Matthew 19:20-22 Jesus is talking to a man like you!

Nope! He is not talking to anyone like me. And I don't judge WHO is lazy. God does. So much for your reading ability.

Jesus was a socialist. Paul was reformed smoker. If you follow. You can work as hard as you like, but if you are working for yourself, it maybe good to gain the world, but you lose your souls. look around you. you have all sold your souls. hells coming to claim them soon.

Paul was a staunch follower of Jesus after his awakening. BTW, all of the words written in the New Testament were actually authored by the followers of Jesus, not by his own hand.

I take it all with a grain of salt because those that gave us what we have weren't Jesus or God. sorry to let you in on that..but that books been edited and picked and chosen by men. ordinary flawed men, no matter what your priest or pope tells you.

 

[BluesLegend]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

Actually no BS at all. I am not wealthy and what I have I did earn through work and my education helped me to do so. If there is ignorance being expended on this thread, it is you doing the crap throwing. The point is, we have lost numerous corporations who have migrated their headquarters to a lower tax country. All of those would have stayed in the US but for the excessive corporate taxation. We would keep many of them here if we taxed the money paid to the share holders such that it would be tax neutral.

Interesting is the way you earlier used the term "rent-seeking." Sounds like the failed attempts of Georgism; a system which has never succeeded without resorting to other taxes to keep the government going. Example: Hong Kong, which has several types of tax besides land valuation tax. In addition, as in Hong Kong, when LVT is used and the user pays the rent to the government, it all works exactly the same as fee-simple property tax on owned land. It is inheritable, it is exclusive to the current occupant, it can be sold just like private land, thus there is no practical difference between one system and the other since if property taxes not paid the land is forfeit.

They prove it again and again libs would rather get no tax revenue at all from corporations vs lowering the tax rate to keep corporations in America and get at least something. Its insane but there it is. You see this in liberal states they will vamp tax a company right out of business or drive them to relocate to another state seemingly oblivious to having just killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Corporation after corporation bails to another country and the only response from liberals is to demonize them. That's not a strategy. In the liberals strange world corporations should willingly stay in the U.S. and be spat upon, demonized, and punished by higher taxes. Who the hell knows what's wrong with these liberals, brain damage maybe.

 

[dnsmith35]

If I taxed a person making $1 million at 1% and a person making $10,000 at 30%, who would pay more in taxes? The answer is the man making $1 million. Paying more in taxes overall does not mean the fair share is being paid, nor does it negate tax breaks and incentives.

They paid nearly $300 billion in taxes and yet you persist in parroting the liberal oil company hate talking points. Liberals told you to hate them and you obeyed, its sad really.

What matters is the percentage of income paid relative to other companies, not the total. This is an incredibly easy point to grasp. Would you support taxing a person making $10,000 at 30%, and a person making $1 million at 1%? Do you understand how that compares to companies that receive special tax privileges?

Exxon Mobile is won of the most profitable companies, meaning it should pay one of the highest corporate tax rates. Yet it pays an average of 17.6% in corporate taxes, higher than the average individual effective income tax rate.
Exxon Mobil Dodges the Tax Man Center for American Progress

What I am criticizing is the government picking and choosing corporations and industries to subsidize. That fosters an enormous amount of corruption and rent-seeking and runs contrary to basic free market principles. A corporate socialist is not a capitalist.

And yet Corporate taxation never does what most people think it does. Based on studies of tax incidence much taxes levied on Corporations are actually paid by consumers. If the Capital is mobile, they can be passed on to labor. If supply is elastic consumers pay the tax. But the most important problem with Corporate taxation is, it gives the congress critters a means to pass on savings for campaign contributions. The taxes Corporations do pay should be eliminated and passed on to the owners of the shares for their profits off of the company making it a tax neutral situation.

ya, more bullshit jumbo talk. you made yourself wealthy on your hard work? education? you've learned nothing and earned what's coming to you. karma has a way of waking up the "poor" to eat the rich as they've fed on the poor. get a history book stupid

Actually no BS at all. I am not wealthy and what I have I did earn through work and my education helped me to do so. If there is ignorance being expended on this thread, it is you doing the crap throwing. The point is, we have lost numerous corporations who have migrated their headquarters to a lower tax country. All of those would have stayed in the US but for the excessive corporate taxation. We would keep many of them here if we taxed the money paid to the share holders such that it would be tax neutral.

Interesting is the way you earlier used the term "rent-seeking." Sounds like the failed attempts of Georgism; a system which has never succeeded without resorting to other taxes to keep the government going. Example: Hong Kong, which has several types of tax besides land valuation tax. In addition, as in Hong Kong, when LVT is used and the user pays the rent to the government, it all works exactly the same as fee-simple property tax on owned land. It is inheritable, it is exclusive to the current occupant, it can be sold just like private land, thus there is no practical difference between one system and the other since if property taxes not paid the land is forfeit.

They prove it again and again libs would rather get no tax revenue at all from corporations vs lowering the tax rate to keep corporations in America and get at least something. Its insane but there it is. You see this in liberal states they will vamp tax a company right out of business or drive them to relocate to another state seemingly oblivious to having just killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Corporation after corporation bails to another country and the only response from liberals is to demonize them. That's not a strategy. In the liberals strange world corporations should willingly stay in the U.S. and be spat upon, demonized, and punished by higher taxes. Who the hell knows what's wrong with these liberals, brain damage maybe.

In addition, we DON'T HAVE TO LOSE THE REVENUE, if the levy is placed on the people who make the money from Corporate profit. Business relies on location, location, location; while government revenue is best concerned with tax incidence, tax incidence, tax incidence.

BTW, I am a liberal by virtue of what I believe we should do for the least of our brethren.

 

[kaz]

Jesus was a socialist

Really? Can you show us some of his pro-government quotes?

You fundamentally don't understand charity. What is done at the end of a gun barrel isn't charity, and Jesus never advocated it. I'm calling you out as the useless liar that you are on this. Back it up.

 

[rdean]

This country does not redistribute wealth by confiscating it from some and giving it to others. We have a legal tax structure detailing what you contribute to society.
The way we do redistribute wealth is by passing laws that make it easier for some groups to accumulate wealth than others

The biggest redistribution of wealth has happened since 1980 as the middle class has lost wealth to the rich

What you said.