Minimal Wage. Raises. Inflation. Cost of living.

[Ray From Cleveland]

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Problem is timing. Give a responsible person 18k at the start of the year and perhaps he'll budget accordingly, assuming his health remains stable. Someone else on the other hand may buy a big screen tv, fancy computer, video games and run out of money before the year ends. Crime will escalate at the end of the year as more and more people run dry on funds. First feeding off their own who held on to their money but can't defend themselves, then when they run dry hitting the better off folk. Better to have a monthly stipend.

People will no longer be forced to work just to survive. Those who want to do more than just survive will work harder. Special hostels will be set up by entrepreneurs for folks who just want to survive. Group homes where they can live in misery waiting for the next check. Problem once in hard to get out again.

There will be rough patches.

It may create some problems but I think more would be solved. One of the problems with our social programs the way they are now is they teach irresponsibility. If taxpayers are going to have to pay for it anyway, our program might as well teach people how to be more responsible and plan ahead of time.

When I see these 300 lbs women in the grocery store with four kids and a SNAP's card, I get so pissed off, especially when I see their late model SUV they load the heaping cart of groceries into. The left try to make excuses for those people claiming this pig might have been able to support those four kids at one time, but just fell on hard times. I say BS. She could never afford one of those kids yet alone four, but no matter how many kids you have, the taxpayer will pay for them.

If we paid out only 18K, you'd see how fast those women would learn to keep their legs closed. That would reduce poverty in the US since the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

Okay, first of all we ain't Switzerland. What might work there or elsewhere does not mean it would or would not work here.

Second, Switzerland shot down the UBI proposal big time, 77% voted against it.

Third, they were proposing only about $2500 per adult and approx 1/4 of that for each child. If you going to up the money for each kid then there goes that incentive to keep your legs together. In this country $2500 ain't going to get you very far.

Fourth, that $7-9 trillion was based on Sly's state proposal to give the UBI to every American, which I assumed meant kids too. Obviously the price tag goes down if you cut the amount for each child and let's say cap it at 2 per household.

Fifth, I believe we spend around $2.5 trillion/year on our SSA/Education/Medicare/etc benefits at the federal level. Which still leaves a heckuva lot of money to pay for the UBI that we ain't got.

We better be damned sure we can make this work before making a change that is this big with as much of an impact as this could have.

Actually it’s just food for thought. If we did try it, there should be no extras for kids. 18K and you decide how many kids you want. You get the same if you have six kids or none.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[task0778]

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Problem is timing. Give a responsible person 18k at the start of the year and perhaps he'll budget accordingly, assuming his health remains stable. Someone else on the other hand may buy a big screen tv, fancy computer, video games and run out of money before the year ends. Crime will escalate at the end of the year as more and more people run dry on funds. First feeding off their own who held on to their money but can't defend themselves, then when they run dry hitting the better off folk. Better to have a monthly stipend.

People will no longer be forced to work just to survive. Those who want to do more than just survive will work harder. Special hostels will be set up by entrepreneurs for folks who just want to survive. Group homes where they can live in misery waiting for the next check. Problem once in hard to get out again.

There will be rough patches.

It may create some problems but I think more would be solved. One of the problems with our social programs the way they are now is they teach irresponsibility. If taxpayers are going to have to pay for it anyway, our program might as well teach people how to be more responsible and plan ahead of time.

When I see these 300 lbs women in the grocery store with four kids and a SNAP's card, I get so pissed off, especially when I see their late model SUV they load the heaping cart of groceries into. The left try to make excuses for those people claiming this pig might have been able to support those four kids at one time, but just fell on hard times. I say BS. She could never afford one of those kids yet alone four, but no matter how many kids you have, the taxpayer will pay for them.

If we paid out only 18K, you'd see how fast those women would learn to keep their legs closed. That would reduce poverty in the US since the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

Okay, first of all we ain't Switzerland. What might work there or elsewhere does not mean it would or would not work here.

Second, Switzerland shot down the UBI proposal big time, 77% voted against it.

Third, they were proposing only about $2500 per adult and approx 1/4 of that for each child. If you going to up the money for each kid then there goes that incentive to keep your legs together. In this country $2500 ain't going to get you very far.

Fourth, that $7-9 trillion was based on Sly's state proposal to give the UBI to every American, which I assumed meant kids too. Obviously the price tag goes down if you cut the amount for each child and let's say cap it at 2 per household.

Fifth, I believe we spend around $2.5 trillion/year on our SSA/Education/Medicare/etc benefits at the federal level. Which still leaves a heckuva lot of money to pay for the UBI that we ain't got.

We better be damned sure we can make this work before making a change that is this big with as much of an impact as this could have.

Actually it’s just food for thought. If we did try it, there should be no extras for kids. 18K and you decide how many kids you want. You get the same if you have six kids or none.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I suspect that idea of nothing extra for your kids wouldn't get very far in Congress. Not that the UBI idea would get very far anyway one way or the other. It's fiscal suicide.

 

[task0778]

Then ask yourself: was that societies fault or yours? I don't "have mine" and never will. But I blame myself for that and nobody else in spite of my lifelong medical problems. I with I could go back in time to do things so much differently. Since I can't, all I can do now is think of ways to move forward.

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

I'd have to see those numbers. Take away just Medicare and Medicaid, you know how much money is spent on healthcare and insurance in this country? Would the unemployed and seniors be able to make it if they were single? Take away everything else, I highly doubt that would cover the costs of a UBI for everybody. And at 16K per adult, that's a bit less than $300 a week; isn't that well below the poverty line? Not exactly easy street.

 

[ThatDude30]

Then ask yourself: was that societies fault or yours? I don't "have mine" and never will. But I blame myself for that and nobody else in spite of my lifelong medical problems. I with I could go back in time to do things so much differently. Since I can't, all I can do now is think of ways to move forward.

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Im sorry but I need to see a post. I never thought I would say that, but I am interested in reading more.

 

[ThatDude30]

Then ask yourself: was that societies fault or yours? I don't "have mine" and never will. But I blame myself for that and nobody else in spite of my lifelong medical problems. I with I could go back in time to do things so much differently. Since I can't, all I can do now is think of ways to move forward.

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

The one year the government spent over 300 million trying to get some healthcare program passed, and it didn't pass. So they threw away over 300 million dollars. They might of as well gave every American citizen 1 million dollars. The government throws away so much money every year, so quick to money from us and take their time giving us money.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

The one year the government spent over 300 million trying to get some healthcare program passed, and it didn't pass. So they threw away over 300 million dollars. They might of as well gave every American citizen 1 million dollars. The government throws away so much money every year, so quick to money from us and take their time giving us money.

And to think, the Pork Bill was 787 billion dollars. Imagine how much every American adult would have had if they just gave us the money. The Pork Bill didn't do crap for the economy anyway.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Im sorry but I need to see a post. I never thought I would say that, but I am interested in reading more.

A post on what, Basic Income?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

I'd have to see those numbers. Take away just Medicare and Medicaid, you know how much money is spent on healthcare and insurance in this country? Would the unemployed and seniors be able to make it if they were single? Take away everything else, I highly doubt that would cover the costs of a UBI for everybody. And at 16K per adult, that's a bit less than $300 a week; isn't that well below the poverty line? Not exactly easy street.

Of course there would be a lot of grandfathering in. You couldn't just take SS and Medicare that we all paid into our entire working lives and take it away.

However if you are young and started now, you can use at least part of your check for elderly care and retirement.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Problem is timing. Give a responsible person 18k at the start of the year and perhaps he'll budget accordingly, assuming his health remains stable. Someone else on the other hand may buy a big screen tv, fancy computer, video games and run out of money before the year ends. Crime will escalate at the end of the year as more and more people run dry on funds. First feeding off their own who held on to their money but can't defend themselves, then when they run dry hitting the better off folk. Better to have a monthly stipend.

People will no longer be forced to work just to survive. Those who want to do more than just survive will work harder. Special hostels will be set up by entrepreneurs for folks who just want to survive. Group homes where they can live in misery waiting for the next check. Problem once in hard to get out again.

There will be rough patches.

It may create some problems but I think more would be solved. One of the problems with our social programs the way they are now is they teach irresponsibility. If taxpayers are going to have to pay for it anyway, our program might as well teach people how to be more responsible and plan ahead of time.

When I see these 300 lbs women in the grocery store with four kids and a SNAP's card, I get so pissed off, especially when I see their late model SUV they load the heaping cart of groceries into. The left try to make excuses for those people claiming this pig might have been able to support those four kids at one time, but just fell on hard times. I say BS. She could never afford one of those kids yet alone four, but no matter how many kids you have, the taxpayer will pay for them.

If we paid out only 18K, you'd see how fast those women would learn to keep their legs closed. That would reduce poverty in the US since the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

Okay, first of all we ain't Switzerland. What might work there or elsewhere does not mean it would or would not work here.

Second, Switzerland shot down the UBI proposal big time, 77% voted against it.

Third, they were proposing only about $2500 per adult and approx 1/4 of that for each child. If you going to up the money for each kid then there goes that incentive to keep your legs together. In this country $2500 ain't going to get you very far.

Fourth, that $7-9 trillion was based on Sly's state proposal to give the UBI to every American, which I assumed meant kids too. Obviously the price tag goes down if you cut the amount for each child and let's say cap it at 2 per household.

Fifth, I believe we spend around $2.5 trillion/year on our SSA/Education/Medicare/etc benefits at the federal level. Which still leaves a heckuva lot of money to pay for the UBI that we ain't got.

We better be damned sure we can make this work before making a change that is this big with as much of an impact as this could have.

Actually it’s just food for thought. If we did try it, there should be no extras for kids. 18K and you decide how many kids you want. You get the same if you have six kids or none.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I suspect that idea of nothing extra for your kids wouldn't get very far in Congress. Not that the UBI idea would get very far anyway one way or the other. It's fiscal suicide.

I don't see why not. If you can't afford children, you shouldn't be having them no matter what system we have. If it were up to me, anybody applying for government assistance would not be able to receive one dime until they were fixed first.

 

[ThatDude30]

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Im sorry but I need to see a post. I never thought I would say that, but I am interested in reading more.

A post on what, Basic Income?

About the government giving everyone 18k a year no matter the income anyone makes

 

[ThatDude30]

What difference does it make whose fault it is?
Are you planning on letting the masses starve when they automate all of the jobs?

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

I'd have to see those numbers. Take away just Medicare and Medicaid, you know how much money is spent on healthcare and insurance in this country? Would the unemployed and seniors be able to make it if they were single? Take away everything else, I highly doubt that would cover the costs of a UBI for everybody. And at 16K per adult, that's a bit less than $300 a week; isn't that well below the poverty line? Not exactly easy street.

How are the people making minimum wage going to be able make when companies who pay minimum usually provides no type of healthcare.

 

[task0778]

Problem is timing. Give a responsible person 18k at the start of the year and perhaps he'll budget accordingly, assuming his health remains stable. Someone else on the other hand may buy a big screen tv, fancy computer, video games and run out of money before the year ends. Crime will escalate at the end of the year as more and more people run dry on funds. First feeding off their own who held on to their money but can't defend themselves, then when they run dry hitting the better off folk. Better to have a monthly stipend.

People will no longer be forced to work just to survive. Those who want to do more than just survive will work harder. Special hostels will be set up by entrepreneurs for folks who just want to survive. Group homes where they can live in misery waiting for the next check. Problem once in hard to get out again.

There will be rough patches.

It may create some problems but I think more would be solved. One of the problems with our social programs the way they are now is they teach irresponsibility. If taxpayers are going to have to pay for it anyway, our program might as well teach people how to be more responsible and plan ahead of time.

When I see these 300 lbs women in the grocery store with four kids and a SNAP's card, I get so pissed off, especially when I see their late model SUV they load the heaping cart of groceries into. The left try to make excuses for those people claiming this pig might have been able to support those four kids at one time, but just fell on hard times. I say BS. She could never afford one of those kids yet alone four, but no matter how many kids you have, the taxpayer will pay for them.

If we paid out only 18K, you'd see how fast those women would learn to keep their legs closed. That would reduce poverty in the US since the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

Okay, first of all we ain't Switzerland. What might work there or elsewhere does not mean it would or would not work here.

Second, Switzerland shot down the UBI proposal big time, 77% voted against it.

Third, they were proposing only about $2500 per adult and approx 1/4 of that for each child. If you going to up the money for each kid then there goes that incentive to keep your legs together. In this country $2500 ain't going to get you very far.

Fourth, that $7-9 trillion was based on Sly's state proposal to give the UBI to every American, which I assumed meant kids too. Obviously the price tag goes down if you cut the amount for each child and let's say cap it at 2 per household.

Fifth, I believe we spend around $2.5 trillion/year on our SSA/Education/Medicare/etc benefits at the federal level. Which still leaves a heckuva lot of money to pay for the UBI that we ain't got.

We better be damned sure we can make this work before making a change that is this big with as much of an impact as this could have.

Actually it’s just food for thought. If we did try it, there should be no extras for kids. 18K and you decide how many kids you want. You get the same if you have six kids or none.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I suspect that idea of nothing extra for your kids wouldn't get very far in Congress. Not that the UBI idea would get very far anyway one way or the other. It's fiscal suicide.

I don't see why not. If you can't afford children, you shouldn't be having them no matter what system we have. If it were up to me, anybody applying for government assistance would not be able to receive one dime until they were fixed first.

There's a reason why nobody in Washington has suggested eliminating the deductions for kids on your tax return. And never will either. Not that I disagree about not having kids until you can afford them. As for getting fixed, that's another matter. Good luck with that one.

 

[ThatDude30]

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

I'd have to see those numbers. Take away just Medicare and Medicaid, you know how much money is spent on healthcare and insurance in this country? Would the unemployed and seniors be able to make it if they were single? Take away everything else, I highly doubt that would cover the costs of a UBI for everybody. And at 16K per adult, that's a bit less than $300 a week; isn't that well below the poverty line? Not exactly easy street.

How are the people making minimum wage going to be able make when companies who pay minimum usually provides no type of healthcare.

The poverty line In 48 states is 12k, Alaska, 15k, Hawaii 13.8k

 

[task0778]

What's your plan? Because there is nothing to stop it other than consumers refusing to purchase products created by automation.

But we never stopped technology when we went to self-service gasoline pumps. We didn't try to stop it with the internet. We didn't try to stop it with self-serve cashiers at stores. We didn't try to stop it when the ATM took over countless jobs at the bank. We are not trying to stop it now with kiosks every damn place you go including the doctors office.

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

I'd have to see those numbers. Take away just Medicare and Medicaid, you know how much money is spent on healthcare and insurance in this country? Would the unemployed and seniors be able to make it if they were single? Take away everything else, I highly doubt that would cover the costs of a UBI for everybody. And at 16K per adult, that's a bit less than $300 a week; isn't that well below the poverty line? Not exactly easy street.

How are the people making minimum wage going to be able make when companies who pay minimum usually provides no type of healthcare.

They won't, if you get your UBI and all the money that goes into Medicare, Medicaid, and the ACA subsides goes away.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It may create some problems but I think more would be solved. One of the problems with our social programs the way they are now is they teach irresponsibility. If taxpayers are going to have to pay for it anyway, our program might as well teach people how to be more responsible and plan ahead of time.

When I see these 300 lbs women in the grocery store with four kids and a SNAP's card, I get so pissed off, especially when I see their late model SUV they load the heaping cart of groceries into. The left try to make excuses for those people claiming this pig might have been able to support those four kids at one time, but just fell on hard times. I say BS. She could never afford one of those kids yet alone four, but no matter how many kids you have, the taxpayer will pay for them.

If we paid out only 18K, you'd see how fast those women would learn to keep their legs closed. That would reduce poverty in the US since the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

Okay, first of all we ain't Switzerland. What might work there or elsewhere does not mean it would or would not work here.

Second, Switzerland shot down the UBI proposal big time, 77% voted against it.

Third, they were proposing only about $2500 per adult and approx 1/4 of that for each child. If you going to up the money for each kid then there goes that incentive to keep your legs together. In this country $2500 ain't going to get you very far.

Fourth, that $7-9 trillion was based on Sly's state proposal to give the UBI to every American, which I assumed meant kids too. Obviously the price tag goes down if you cut the amount for each child and let's say cap it at 2 per household.

Fifth, I believe we spend around $2.5 trillion/year on our SSA/Education/Medicare/etc benefits at the federal level. Which still leaves a heckuva lot of money to pay for the UBI that we ain't got.

We better be damned sure we can make this work before making a change that is this big with as much of an impact as this could have.

Actually it’s just food for thought. If we did try it, there should be no extras for kids. 18K and you decide how many kids you want. You get the same if you have six kids or none.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I suspect that idea of nothing extra for your kids wouldn't get very far in Congress. Not that the UBI idea would get very far anyway one way or the other. It's fiscal suicide.

I don't see why not. If you can't afford children, you shouldn't be having them no matter what system we have. If it were up to me, anybody applying for government assistance would not be able to receive one dime until they were fixed first.

There's a reason why nobody in Washington has suggested eliminating the deductions for kids on your tax return. And never will either. Not that I disagree about not having kids until you can afford them. As for getting fixed, that's another matter. Good luck with that one.

Without a doubt, no politician has the guts to make that suggestion. Seems that all the real solutions to our problems in this country are taboo. We know they would work, but it's not politically correct or expedient to discuss it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Turn the Government into the employer of the poor. Guarantee all American citizens a minimum income for life. And if employers want to hire an American who is paid welfare for doing nothing then they better come prepared to pay what the job is actually worth doing instead of the way it is now paying the least amount as you can get away with. To pay for it you tax automation.

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Im sorry but I need to see a post. I never thought I would say that, but I am interested in reading more.

A post on what, Basic Income?

About the government giving everyone 18k a year no matter the income anyone makes

Very well, I got the idea from Switzerland (which failed miserably by vote) when I read all the ins and outs of their proposal. While we can't duplicate the exact model, it did give me fodder for thought about doing it in the US.

My ideas were just a takeoff from the Swiss model. I gave serious thought about how that might work out in our country when you weight what we currently have, all the problems we have with our safety net systems, and the costs to support it.

Why Switzerland’s Universal Basic Income referendum matters, even though it failed

 

[Markle]

The one year the government spent over 300 million trying to get some healthcare program passed, and it didn't pass. So they threw away over 300 million dollars. They might of as well gave every American citizen 1 million dollars. The government throws away so much money every year, so quick to money from us and take their time giving us money.

Little wonder you have so much trouble with taxes and spending.

300,000,000 million people times $1,000,000. equals $300,000,000,000,000.00

Since you have problems with zero's. That figure is $300 TRILLION

A shortcut to multiply zero's times zero's is to simply add the zeros from the $1 million to the zeroes of 300 million.

 

[Markle]

How are the people making minimum wage going to be able make when companies who pay minimum usually provides no type of healthcare.

Either English is your third or fourth language or you've had a few too many adult beverages...again.

 

[ThatDude30]

Tax automation to pay all Americans a minimum income for life? Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? I don't think you have thought this through, everybody gets free money whether they work or not? We've got what, like 320 million Americans, how much are you going to give each one of them? Knowing you Lefties, I assume there will be a threshhold above which you get nothing, right? So let's knock off 20 million of the top earners, that still leaves 300 million folks, are you going to give them each what amounts to minimum wage?

Let's see, $15/hr times 40 hours a week, that's $600 a week. Times 52 weeks a year, that's a bit over $30,000 a year. So how much is $30k times 300 million? We're talking $9 trillion a year to pay all that money I think; say you wipe out our current UE and SSA and other payments except for HealthCare, that's about what $2 trillion? Where's the other $7 trillion going to come from? Are you seriously going to tell me you think you can tax automation that much? It's a nice dream, but it ain't even close to reality.

Well.....he may be on to something here. I read an article about Basic Income that they were tossing around for parts of Switzerland. Here's how it works:

Every adult gets 18K a year from the government. It doesn't matter if you work, how much money you do or don't make, what you do with that annual check. You get 18K a year.

The catch to that is there are no more social programs: no more Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps, HUD, nothing. You get 18K a year and figure it out for yourself.

Running the numbers, they concluded that it would actually save the country money. Not only that, but it would eliminate the discrepancies between the working and the non-working.

For instance, I have these HUD people next door to me. I don't know if they work or not, but whatever they do, they come home all hours of the night waking me and my tenants up. I reject the idea that my tax dollars are supporting non-working lowlifes to live in the suburbs next door to me when I have to work to live in the same area.

Basic income would eliminate all that. If they got 18K a year (or combined 36K a year for mother and father) they would not be able to afford to live here with their three kids. They would have to seek lower income housing in order to support their kids who are no longer on food stamps and can't get Free Lunch in school.

If you are a hard worker, you can use that extra money to pump up your retirement plan since there would be no Social Security. You can work and use those checks to pay for your children's college which is another issue liberals bring up. Healthcare? No longer a problem. We would not have to debate between government and private healthcare since you can use your check to get a great healthcare plan if you don't have one with your job.

With our social programs, they are a deterrent for people bettering themselves. If you are on food stamps and want to remain there, you must keep your income under X amount per month, otherwise your increased earnings will be deducted from you stipend. Basic income eliminates all that because you are going to get your 18K no matter if you work 20 hours or 60 hours per week. I believe it would encourage people to try harder.

Im sorry but I need to see a post. I never thought I would say that, but I am interested in reading more.

A post on what, Basic Income?

About the government giving everyone 18k a year no matter the income anyone makes

Very well, I got the idea from Switzerland (which failed miserably by vote) when I read all the ins and outs of their proposal. While we can't duplicate the exact model, it did give me fodder for thought about doing it in the US.

My ideas were just a takeoff from the Swiss model. I gave serious thought about how that might work out in our country when you weight what we currently have, all the problems we have with our safety net systems, and the costs to support it.

Why Switzerland’s Universal Basic Income referendum matters, even though it failed

Ok say the Government does give every American citizen that pays taxes every 18k. Does the 18k go in citizens personal account or a specific account designated to each individual provided by the Government? My issue is the responsibility of people. I think a lot if not most would spend it irresponsibly if the Government left it up to each individual. If a person blows through that 18k in 3 or 4 months then what?
Maybe if the Government gave individuals the money and had regulations to go with it. Maybe individuals could take a few grand from it for any reason and have another limit like individuals can have access to 3,000 more but only if individuals provide information and proof the money is needed for an emergency or for rent, mortgage, food, or any cost of living need. And as the years go by individuals accumulate the 18k each year and individuals will have more money that they can access, But never can be depleted.

Another way is just make everything affordable. Once I had to be transported by ambulance. On the paper work It stated I was transported .1 mile. I lived 2 blocks from hospital. You know how much my bill was for that ambulance ride? $1,678!!!
For a distance I could of walked and got there in 10 mins tops. I could of rented a limo with fully stocked bar for all that.

Instead of charging ridiculous prices for medical testing procedures whatever, just make it a price anyone could afford. Then maybe just maybe people would start paying their medical bills.

 

[ThatDude30]

Also, the benefits some people get such as food stamps. Some people get 7, 8, 900 dollars a month. People that receive benefits from the government should be required to do something to accommodate what they receive. They should also be evaluated every so often to see if they are really still eligible to receive the benefits. They should also investigate people more and weed out as many people as they can that are just manipulating the Government.

There are a lot of people who spend their whole Government check on drugs, and sell and/or trade their food stamps, 50 cents to every dollar, and still live better than American workers that work full time making minimum wage. But that's ok. Upstanding citizens that could manipulate the Government just as easy, choose to work and not be on any Government assistance, live pay check to pay check. Either paying utilities and a not able to buy food or miss a payment so they can buy a little bit of food. Broke 2 days after paid, from paying bills so they wont go homeless, go without heat, go without light, go without being able to clean dishes or flush the toilet, and wont get another dollar for another 2 weeks.

Am I the only one that sees the big issue here? Can anyone else see the big picture? Put all technicality aside, any political influence you may have, and actually look and make sense of it. Minimum wage isn't enough annual income required to cover an individuals cost of living.

In America, I strongly believe that any American citizen that works a full time job, should be paid a wage that cover his or her annual cost of living.

Like I said put out technicality aside, put all political influence aside, just think is it fair that an American that works full time makes a wage that is $5,000 less than the average annual cost of living for 1 person. As an American I believe no American working full time should not have any trouble covering his or her annual cost of living. There are people that manipulate the government and wait for money to magically load on to their visa debit cards. The pay little to no rent, utilities are paid and at a very low cost, they receive hundreds of dollars a month for food, they can spend all the government money they get on drugs, tons of new clothes, and new cars, and live better and live without worry about whether or not they can pay rent or any other bill, what they are going to eat this week, are they going to have enough gas to make it to and from work, and whether or not they can afford anything else they need. Worry about loosing there job, then the jam they will be in, will they go homeless? will they loose their car? I mean come on is it really fair? No its not!