Michele Bachmann Mangles Revolutionary History

[The Gadfly]

You are the one bitching, not me

I love my country

Yes, I believe you do. I'm a conservative, and I love my country too. I'm not one who is going to sit here and attempt to demonize everyone with a point of view different from mine as Un-American; i simply don't believe that's true. Now, does that mean I share the vision of America you have? No; I agree with you on some matters, and vehemently disagree with you on others. I don't share your liking for an all-powerful central government; I believe that that government which is the closest to the people is more accountable, and more cognizant of their interests. I presume that my state representatives know more about how to run my state for the benefit of the people thereof, than the representatives of some other state, or the federal government in Washington. There are some things the central government does well, and some things local and state governments do better. I believe, therefore, that the federal government should only interfere in the affairs of a state, when it has a clear and compelling constitutional mandate to do so (and not on the whims of politicians or bureaucrats). Big government sometimes leads to unresponsive, unaccountable, and overbearing government. That's not good; it may work (for the moment) for causes you believe in; but it can work against them and you ought to remember that.

Too many judges have a tendency to use the bench to usurp the prerogatives of the legislative branch. Sometimes, that's necessary; most of the time, it isn't. The poor interstate commerce clause has been beaten to death, overused time and again to get the nose of the federal camel where it does not belong, and was never intended to go. I'm suspicious of the idea of aggregating too much power at any level of government; to do so, may be efficient, but it also tends to destroy the natural tension between state and federal power that helps maintain a balance and therefore to preserve individual liberty.

The union of this republic means nothing, if it must be held together by force.We rely instead, on being able to reconcile a wide variety of very divergent interests, in a way that is at least tolerable to most. That is not so efficient as you might like, but let one set of interests ride roughshod over another, any other, and while it may "work" for your interests for a while(assuming it's not your ox that's being gored) sooner or later, that interest or interests will demand redress, and you'll either have to give it to them, or maintain the republic by force, at which point (just like the last time) it will cease to be a republic at all.

I believe that a strong centralized government was not possible at the time of the founding of this country due to limitations in communications and transportation. At the time, it made sense to delegate more power to the states
I lived through the civil rights era and saw the abuses of States rights. The belief that individual states can decide how their people should be treated. I have also seen the expansion in the US economically and as a world power since we moved to a centralized government
There are no major economic powers in the world that operates on a states rights form of government

RW, I trust the portion posted above answers your comment about civil rights. As for being the only economic power that operates on a states rights form of government, there's no reason we couldn't be (we're the only country that does a lot of things). The federal government has ALWAYS controlled international trade and tariffs, so that would be the same, bigger government or not. Likewise, the federal government has ALWAYS had the sole authority to conduct foreign policy, so that did not change, either. Big government has made us more despotic at home, and more aggressive abroad, but that would have likely occurred anyway. We got our present place in the world, (complete with a lot of the trappings of empire), largely by default, after two world wars innervated the former great powers of Europe, and not by having the federal government run roughshod over the sovereignty of the states.

Of course, you, as a government employee, benefit from Big Government, so it's understandable you don't wish to bite the hand that feeds you; however, those of us who are not feeding at the public teat may have a different take on the matter, which ought to be understandable to you.

 

[The T]

Yes, I believe you do. I'm a conservative, and I love my country too. I'm not one who is going to sit here and attempt to demonize everyone with a point of view different from mine as Un-American; i simply don't believe that's true. Now, does that mean I share the vision of America you have? No; I agree with you on some matters, and vehemently disagree with you on others. I don't share your liking for an all-powerful central government; I believe that that government which is the closest to the people is more accountable, and more cognizant of their interests. I presume that my state representatives know more about how to run my state for the benefit of the people thereof, than the representatives of some other state, or the federal government in Washington. There are some things the central government does well, and some things local and state governments do better. I believe, therefore, that the federal government should only interfere in the affairs of a state, when it has a clear and compelling constitutional mandate to do so (and not on the whims of politicians or bureaucrats). Big government sometimes leads to unresponsive, unaccountable, and overbearing government. That's not good; it may work (for the moment) for causes you believe in; but it can work against them and you ought to remember that.

Too many judges have a tendency to use the bench to usurp the prerogatives of the legislative branch. Sometimes, that's necessary; most of the time, it isn't. The poor interstate commerce clause has been beaten to death, overused time and again to get the nose of the federal camel where it does not belong, and was never intended to go. I'm suspicious of the idea of aggregating too much power at any level of government; to do so, may be efficient, but it also tends to destroy the natural tension between state and federal power that helps maintain a balance and therefore to preserve individual liberty.

The union of this republic means nothing, if it must be held together by force.We rely instead, on being able to reconcile a wide variety of very divergent interests, in a way that is at least tolerable to most. That is not so efficient as you might like, but let one set of interests ride roughshod over another, any other, and while it may "work" for your interests for a while(assuming it's not your ox that's being gored) sooner or later, that interest or interests will demand redress, and you'll either have to give it to them, or maintain the republic by force, at which point (just like the last time) it will cease to be a republic at all.

I believe that a strong centralized government was not possible at the time of the founding of this country due to limitations in communications and transportation. At the time, it made sense to delegate more power to the states
I lived through the civil rights era and saw the abuses of States rights. The belief that individual states can decide how their people should be treated. I have also seen the expansion in the US economically and as a world power since we moved to a centralized government
There are no major economic powers in the world that operates on a states rights form of government

RW, I trust the portion posted above answers your comment about civil rights. As for being the only economic power that operates on a states rights form of government, there's no reason we couldn't be (we're the only country that does a lot of things). The federal government has ALWAYS controlled international trade and tariffs, so that would be the same, bigger government or not. Likewise, the federal government has ALWAYS had the sole authority to conduct foreign policy, so that did not change, either. Big government has made us more despotic at home, and more aggressive abroad, but that would have likely occurred anyway. We got our present place in the world, (complete with a lot of the trappings of empire), largely by default, after two world wars innervated the former great powers of Europe, and not by having the federal government run roughshod over the sovereignty of the states.

Of course, you, as a government employee, benefit from Big Government, so it's understandable you don't wish to bite the hand that feeds you; however, those of us who are not feeding at the public teat may have a different take on the matter, which ought to be understandable to you.

It isn't understandable to him...he only knows what he knows...thinking outside the BOX isn't in the cards, and unacceptable...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You never oppose legislation itself through the courts. You pick a specific aspect of that legislation and hope to prove it is unconstitutional. Logic would show your hypocrisy in declaring the left alone uses the court system to strike down laws.
The conservative movement, after being unable to block Obamacare through the legislative process immediately went running to the courts

When a law clearly violates the Constitution. The courts are the only recourse.

And it's up to the Courts to side with the Constitution.

Yeah.....like recognizing corporations as individual campaign-contributors, right??

"I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." - THOMAS JEFFERSON

 

[Jack Fate]

When a law clearly violates the Constitution. The courts are the only recourse.

And it's up to the Courts to side with the Constitution.

Yeah.....like recognizing corporations as individual campaign-contributors, right??

"I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." - THOMAS JEFFERSON

Corporations...squawk........billionaires......squawk......squawk, squawk. You dont' say much but you sure make a lot of loud pretty colors. Lots of glitter and flash, but no substance. You remind me of your dear leader.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Threads like this are such a waste of time. Everyone on both sides can point to mistakes and flubs. It's juvenile and very weak. Another example of the Obamatron intellect.

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, I believe you do. I'm a conservative, and I love my country too. I'm not one who is going to sit here and attempt to demonize everyone with a point of view different from mine as Un-American; i simply don't believe that's true. Now, does that mean I share the vision of America you have? No; I agree with you on some matters, and vehemently disagree with you on others. I don't share your liking for an all-powerful central government; I believe that that government which is the closest to the people is more accountable, and more cognizant of their interests. I presume that my state representatives know more about how to run my state for the benefit of the people thereof, than the representatives of some other state, or the federal government in Washington. There are some things the central government does well, and some things local and state governments do better. I believe, therefore, that the federal government should only interfere in the affairs of a state, when it has a clear and compelling constitutional mandate to do so (and not on the whims of politicians or bureaucrats). Big government sometimes leads to unresponsive, unaccountable, and overbearing government. That's not good; it may work (for the moment) for causes you believe in; but it can work against them and you ought to remember that.

Too many judges have a tendency to use the bench to usurp the prerogatives of the legislative branch. Sometimes, that's necessary; most of the time, it isn't. The poor interstate commerce clause has been beaten to death, overused time and again to get the nose of the federal camel where it does not belong, and was never intended to go. I'm suspicious of the idea of aggregating too much power at any level of government; to do so, may be efficient, but it also tends to destroy the natural tension between state and federal power that helps maintain a balance and therefore to preserve individual liberty.

The union of this republic means nothing, if it must be held together by force.We rely instead, on being able to reconcile a wide variety of very divergent interests, in a way that is at least tolerable to most. That is not so efficient as you might like, but let one set of interests ride roughshod over another, any other, and while it may "work" for your interests for a while(assuming it's not your ox that's being gored) sooner or later, that interest or interests will demand redress, and you'll either have to give it to them, or maintain the republic by force, at which point (just like the last time) it will cease to be a republic at all.

I believe that a strong centralized government was not possible at the time of the founding of this country due to limitations in communications and transportation. At the time, it made sense to delegate more power to the states
I lived through the civil rights era and saw the abuses of States rights. The belief that individual states can decide how their people should be treated. I have also seen the expansion in the US economically and as a world power since we moved to a centralized government
There are no major economic powers in the world that operates on a states rights form of government

RW, I trust the portion posted above answers your comment about civil rights. As for being the only economic power that operates on a states rights form of government, there's no reason we couldn't be (we're the only country that does a lot of things). The federal government has ALWAYS controlled international trade and tariffs, so that would be the same, bigger government or not. Likewise, the federal government has ALWAYS had the sole authority to conduct foreign policy, so that did not change, either. Big government has made us more despotic at home, and more aggressive abroad, but that would have likely occurred anyway. We got our present place in the world, (complete with a lot of the trappings of empire), largely by default, after two world wars innervated the former great powers of Europe, and not by having the federal government run roughshod over the sovereignty of the states.

Of course, you, as a government employee, benefit from Big Government, so it's understandable you don't wish to bite the hand that feeds you; however, those of us who are not feeding at the public teat may have a different take on the matter, which ought to be understandable to you.

Yes ....I benefit from Big Government. I doubt you believe our armed services should operate on a States rights basis.

And yes, as I stated in the post previous to yours, I am proud of my service on the " public teat"

 

[JakeStarkey]

Too bad they aren't educated and enlightened like you are

I'm no genius. But I could kick the shit out of Bachmann when it comes to politics and American History. Her repeated misrepresentations show a limited grasp of our government and our history

Yes, you would take her apart with your deep knowledge and understanding of American History, logic and economics. But you you really think it's fair to measure her against you? I mean who would pass that test?

Certainly not you, kaz.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How would you like to be the only member of (435) congress stalked by Soros's well funded Media Matters picking up every flub and sending it to Huffington? There is a lot of hatred on the left. I guess it's good to have an outlet like this. Right winger doesn't even know he is a left winger. The left is becoming pathetic.

Some of the far leftists are every bit as pathetic as you and the far far right weird wacks, whitehall. Glad you recognize it.

 

[Jack Fate]

Threads like this are such a waste of time. Everyone on both sides can point to mistakes and flubs. It's juvenile and very weak. Another example of the Obamatron intellect.

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

 

[JakeStarkey]

However the 9th and 10th still exist without the Amendment process...HOW do you account for that?

You cannot. Judicial action is a vice of folks as you better known as arrogance.

Judicial action is a cornerstone of the very document you claim to defend

Three separate but equal branches of government. Do you understand? It's a lot like "rock, paper, scissors".

You did not make it through community college much less a bachelor's degree, did you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Here's something specific you haven't read in the Constitution that you need to. The 10th amendment...

I have read it and so has every court for the last 200 years

Neither of us concur in your interpretation. We are now " The United States" not a bunch of states that are united

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I think this says the Federal government can only use powers granted to it by the people. You think it says the Federal government can do whatever it wants. "We" don't have an "interpretation" issue. "You" have a "reading" issue...

The "We" you are describing is you and your comrades. You do not understand American history, government, the Constitution, or our law. Your ignorance is overwhelming.

 

[The T]

Threads like this are such a waste of time. Everyone on both sides can point to mistakes and flubs. It's juvenile and very weak. Another example of the Obamatron intellect.

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

It's useless to even try to reason with USMB's own PEE WEE HERMAN that is Jokey/Fakey...All you'll get is "I know you are but what Am I..." routine...

 

[Jack Fate]

Judicial action is a cornerstone of the very document you claim to defend

Three separate but equal branches of government. Do you understand? It's a lot like "rock, paper, scissors".

You did not make it through community college much less a bachelor's degree, did you?

We all see you failed to address my point and had to resort to a personal insult, which is the tactic of loser lefties when they can't respond to the truth. Maybe a nap would be a good idea for you right about now. If you continue you're gonna get your ass kicked real good.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Threads like this are such a waste of time. Everyone on both sides can point to mistakes and flubs. It's juvenile and very weak. Another example of the Obamatron intellect.

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

You are so silly with the name calling being returned to you. Tough stuff, little one. The GOP will take your vote then ignore you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

It's useless to even try to reason with USMB's own PEE WEE HERMAN that is Jokey/Fakey...All you'll get is "I know you are but what Am I..." routine...

You are a far right wack who is mentally ill, T, so please keep it coming here. Your illness and its posting undermines all you hope for.

 

[The T]

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

It's useless to even try to reason with USMB's own PEE WEE HERMAN that is Jokey/Fakey...All you'll get is "I know you are but what Am I..." routine...

You are a far right wack who is mentally ill, T, so please keep it coming here. Your illness and its posting undermines all you hope for.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You prove my point, T.

 

[Jack Fate]

Another example of JokeFake's "who us" routine, but who will jump the opposition in a heartbeat, JF is the clown who says this is not about truth or what is right, it is all about propaganda and winning. Such a phony.

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

You are so silly with the name calling being returned to you. Tough stuff, little one. The GOP will take your vote then ignore you.

Looks like they are doing exactly what they said they would do. You and your pals are the ones who are crying and getting nasty. You lost Jake. Now man up and take it like an adult. We won.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The cons are having to make some tough deals with the centrists and libs in Congress. That's what they were elected to do. Boehner and the leadership will not play to Bachmann and her gang. They have not and they won't.

 

[The T]

Oh this is about truth and what is right. What is true and what is right is happening in Wisconsin. You and your pals don't like the truth and what is right. Thus, your propaganda. Pusillanimous pissant.

You are so silly with the name calling being returned to you. Tough stuff, little one. The GOP will take your vote then ignore you.

Looks like they are doing exactly what they said they would do. You and your pals are the ones who are crying and getting nasty. You lost Jake. Now man up and take it like an adult. We won.

Never let Jokey Fakey talk you into that he is a Republican...or anything on the right....


He's a PAID SHILL for the LEFT.