Memorial Day Truth

[georgephillip]

Geez.......does this dolt ever stop referenceing this fake website Common Dreams?

s0n.........nobody cares. Time to get OCD about something else. Dick Cheney won this round. Suck it up and move on.

Just for you and your good bud, Dick:

"At least eight members of an Afghan family have been killed, including six children, after an airstrike by the US-led NATO coalition in Afghanistan. The missiles hit late Saturday night in the eastern province of Paktia, according to officials.

“'Shafi was not a Taliban. He was not in any opposition group against the government. He was a villager,' Samon said. 'Right now, we are working on this case to find out the ages of their children and how many of them are boys and girls.'”

Afghan Family of Eight, Including Six Children, Killed in Nato Missile Attack | Common Dreams

Still sucking up to baby killer$...???

meh


This debate has been settled for years now. Only the nutters on the far reaches of the internet world still bring it up.

How many tours did Dick the limp serve in Vietnam...wait...
Never mind.

 

[blackhawk]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

 

[georgephillip]

I know you dont belive this crap. Ever hear of WW2, Vietnam, ect.....Tribunals were the nicest thing they had to face. It's joke when you compare waterboarding to torture, or tribunals to torture, you're an idiot liberal that has no idea of how reality works. You're probably judging civilizations on what they did thousands of years ago, by your own modern values and have no context for the world in which they lived, correct?

As for now, I'm all for torture. It works, and it's your enemies. If we're talking about American citizens, they yeah, I'd have a problem. They are not citizens, so the Constitution does not apply. And as for internationa agreements, those were divised of modern countries that are on the same level and value system, because those "western" countries are more poitically, socialliy and economically developed and can enforce those rules to some degree. Again it does not apply to terrorists, sorry but terrorists are lower than spies, and spies are among the most hated of military personel, just ask George Washington.

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

 

[buckeye45_73]

So all political arguments are "useless and invalid?"
Who knew??

Just because the US used torture to extract confessions before 911 doesn't mean that torture didn't become more common afterwards.

"After 9/11, our government turned to torture, seeking information about the terrorists who committed the atrocity and others who might follow after them. Senior officials ordered the torture of men at military bases and detention facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq, in secret CIA prisons set up across the globe, and in other countries – including Libya and Egypt — where abusive regimes were asked to do Washington’s dirty work."

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

I know you dont belive this crap. Ever hear of WW2, Vietnam, ect.....Tribunals were the nicest thing they had to face. It's joke when you compare waterboarding to torture, or tribunals to torture, you're an idiot liberal that has no idea of how reality works. You're probably judging civilizations on what they did thousands of years ago, by your own modern values and have no context for the world in which they lived, correct?

As for now, I'm all for torture. It works, and it's your enemies. If we're talking about American citizens, they yeah, I'd have a problem. They are not citizens, so the Constitution does not apply. And as for internationa agreements, those were divised of modern countries that are on the same level and value system, because those "western" countries are more poitically, socialliy and economically developed and can enforce those rules to some degree. Again it does not apply to terrorists, sorry but terrorists are lower than spies, and spies are among the most hated of military personel, just ask George Washington.

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

First of all you're really, really judgemental like most liberals, you dont judge gay people, no, no, but you do judge Truman for dropping the bomb. Excuse me but who attacked the US on 12/7/41? Uh I think it was the Japanese, now maybe your liberal professors told you something different, but they did and to invade JApan to END (isnt that what you would want is an end to that war?) they would have had to INVADE Japan, where estimates were
Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and several times that number for total Japanese casualties.
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you wanted millions of allies and even more Japanese to die? or drop the bomb, I'm gonna go with Truman on this (and guess what Truman was a democrat, I'm reaching across the isle)


You know I love owning you. This board is fun as hell, I post articles and stuff, and you give me what your professor tells you.

and what oil interests were in Korea and Vietnam? Uh we didnt get em if they were there, kinda like +Iraq. You keep spouting we went for oil, but I dont really think it was, since the results havent shown it......maybe one of these days you'll learn about facts and proof to bolster and arguement.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

Well I can see you are, so after owning you on the civillian arguement, lets take alook at this one. I do one case at atime, but I'm like a Mounty, I always get my man.
Ok so they were'nt killing people outside of their country. hmmmm Hitler, how many deaths did he cause outside of his country? Stalin?

Now lets talk about inside, so your arguement is it's better to kill your own citizens them someone elses? Seriously? that's your defense?

 

[georgephillip]

Memorial Day is the one day out of the year that we to remember and honor those who gave their lives for this country. Your complete lack of gratitude and respect for those brave men and women, shows you are nothing but human garbage!

Any respect and gratitude for those who kill civilians for money would be misplaced.
The US hasn't faced any threat since the end of WWII that required killing a single civilian.
Those who glorify hired killers based on an accident of birth deserve to find out what shock and awe feel like to those on the receiving end.

do you just speak what your prosfessor tells you to? What civillians? Sorry when you have a war going on people may get hurt, kinda like when al queda declared war on 9/11, but you dont care about our civillians do ya, maybe because it was wall street? MAybe OWS was behind 9/11...we need to investigate that for the kooks out there.

hired killers? accidental birth, wow you got the commie university lingo down. Lets toss out socioeconomic, communism has never been tried, and hey, I found this article

John's List of Liberal Code Phrases


Just repeat the liberal side of it.

What civilians?

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931–6."

MMS: Error

Do ya think killing children for money thousands of miles from New York might kinda explain our civilian deaths on 911?

 

[georgephillip]

And george I explained the whole concpet of terrorism and why they can be tortured. They are lower than spies, and lets see what the Geneva convention has to say.
International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention
"' Article 29 '. -- A person can only be considered a spy when, acting clandestinely or on false pretences, he obtains or endeavours to obtain information in the zone of operations of a belligerent with the intention of communicating it to the hostile party.
Thus, soldiers not wearing a disguise who have penetrated into the zone of operations of the hostile army, for the purpose of obtaining information, are not considered spies. Similarly, the following are not considered spies: soldiers and civilians carrying out their mission openly, entrusted with the delivery of despatches intended either for their own army or for the enemy's army. To this class belong likewise persons sent in balloons for the purpose of carrying despatches and, generally, of maintaining communications between the different parts of an army or a territory."

So in other words, if you have a military uniform you're protected and if you dont it depends, but if you're a spy, you hope for a quick death (hence why you see them with cyanide capsules in the movies). Sio there is YOUR Geneva convention....I win....again

Try harder.

"The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

If "terrorists are lower than spies", what do you have in mind for the joint chiefs?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Any respect and gratitude for those who kill civilians for money would be misplaced.
The US hasn't faced any threat since the end of WWII that required killing a single civilian.
Those who glorify hired killers based on an accident of birth deserve to find out what shock and awe feel like to those on the receiving end.

do you just speak what your prosfessor tells you to? What civillians? Sorry when you have a war going on people may get hurt, kinda like when al queda declared war on 9/11, but you dont care about our civillians do ya, maybe because it was wall street? MAybe OWS was behind 9/11...we need to investigate that for the kooks out there.

hired killers? accidental birth, wow you got the commie university lingo down. Lets toss out socioeconomic, communism has never been tried, and hey, I found this article

John's List of Liberal Code Phrases


Just repeat the liberal side of it.

What civilians?

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931–6."

MMS: Error

Do ya think killing children for money thousands of miles from New York might kinda explain our civilian deaths on 911?

Ok so you suppored Iraq invading and taking over Kuwait...and you know why they did......drumroll please......OIL DING DING DING. We liberated Kuwait and nobody argues that action, we kicked them out and didnt invade Iraq, so how did we kill so many Iraqi children. And you're arguing THAT war, seriously are you Ooooh? He had the same stupid arguements. You're actually arguing THAT war, the one EVERYBODY agreed upon (and I'll explain everybody since you're a liberal, All of Europe, East Asia, Africa and the middle east.) So you're saying some crazy wingnut faction of Islam was justified to kill our citizens, because of THAT war? So you're saying that people who have KIDS (aka CHILDREN) and mothers and fathers strap bombs on blow up jews and americans, that they cared enough about Iraqi children (ASSUMING you're correct) to blow up the World Trade Center. WOW I'm dealing with a total liberal, US Bashing commie, or someone completely insane, oh wait they're the same thing.

 

[buckeye45_73]

And george I explained the whole concpet of terrorism and why they can be tortured. They are lower than spies, and lets see what the Geneva convention has to say.
International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention
"' Article 29 '. -- A person can only be considered a spy when, acting clandestinely or on false pretences, he obtains or endeavours to obtain information in the zone of operations of a belligerent with the intention of communicating it to the hostile party.
Thus, soldiers not wearing a disguise who have penetrated into the zone of operations of the hostile army, for the purpose of obtaining information, are not considered spies. Similarly, the following are not considered spies: soldiers and civilians carrying out their mission openly, entrusted with the delivery of despatches intended either for their own army or for the enemy's army. To this class belong likewise persons sent in balloons for the purpose of carrying despatches and, generally, of maintaining communications between the different parts of an army or a territory."

So in other words, if you have a military uniform you're protected and if you dont it depends, but if you're a spy, you hope for a quick death (hence why you see them with cyanide capsules in the movies). Sio there is YOUR Geneva convention....I win....again

Try harder.

"The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

If "terrorists are lower than spies", what do you have in mind for the joint chiefs?

Are you just stupid or just not that bright? You didnt even get close to my question. This is your comback? To use the DOD definiton and then call the joint cheifs, terrorists.
WOW, I got me a real live berkley nutjob. So Rush Limbaugh was right, people as crazy as you do exist(I thought he was making up these uber wacko leftists) Whoooohooo boys, lets get em! So you're one of the people that thinks blacks CANT be racist and communism has never been tried, Ok.

I'll need to go slow on this, so again spies are considered very low and dont have protection, did you understand that? Confirm and we'll go further.

 

[georgephillip]

I know you dont belive this crap. Ever hear of WW2, Vietnam, ect.....Tribunals were the nicest thing they had to face. It's joke when you compare waterboarding to torture, or tribunals to torture, you're an idiot liberal that has no idea of how reality works. You're probably judging civilizations on what they did thousands of years ago, by your own modern values and have no context for the world in which they lived, correct?

As for now, I'm all for torture. It works, and it's your enemies. If we're talking about American citizens, they yeah, I'd have a problem. They are not citizens, so the Constitution does not apply. And as for internationa agreements, those were divised of modern countries that are on the same level and value system, because those "western" countries are more poitically, socialliy and economically developed and can enforce those rules to some degree. Again it does not apply to terrorists, sorry but terrorists are lower than spies, and spies are among the most hated of military personel, just ask George Washington.

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

First of all you're really, really judgemental like most liberals, you dont judge gay people, no, no, but you do judge Truman for dropping the bomb. Excuse me but who attacked the US on 12/7/41? Uh I think it was the Japanese, now maybe your liberal professors told you something different, but they did and to invade JApan to END (isnt that what you would want is an end to that war?) they would have had to INVADE Japan, where estimates were
Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and several times that number for total Japanese casualties.
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you wanted millions of allies and even more Japanese to die? or drop the bomb, I'm gonna go with Truman on this (and guess what Truman was a democrat, I'm reaching across the isle)


You know I love owning you. This board is fun as hell, I post articles and stuff, and you give me what your professor tells you.

and what oil interests were in Korea and Vietnam? Uh we didnt get em if they were there, kinda like +Iraq. You keep spouting we went for oil, but I dont really think it was, since the results havent shown it......maybe one of these days you'll learn about facts and proof to bolster and arguement.

I'll bet that you are ignorant enough to think you own Ike, too.

"...I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to (Secretary of War Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon ...no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

Dwight Eisenhower

The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb Copyright 1995 Gar Alperovitz

You know, you really should learn the definition of "own"

Maybe one day you'll be able to separate fact from propaganda.

 

[The T]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

 

[The T]

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Who gets your vote for the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, Einstein?

Fuck off with the "thousands of years ago" shit and tell me which country incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The same one that butchered thousands of Koreans and Vietnamese for market share and Rockefeller oil interests. The same "shining light on a hill" that's maimed, murdered, incarcerated and displaced millions of Iraqis.

Those who believe war crimes can never apply to any country they were born in are the ones who need a reality lesson. Clean you own government of terrorists before worrying about any others.

First of all you're really, really judgemental like most liberals, you dont judge gay people, no, no, but you do judge Truman for dropping the bomb. Excuse me but who attacked the US on 12/7/41? Uh I think it was the Japanese, now maybe your liberal professors told you something different, but they did and to invade JApan to END (isnt that what you would want is an end to that war?) they would have had to INVADE Japan, where estimates were
Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and several times that number for total Japanese casualties.
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you wanted millions of allies and even more Japanese to die? or drop the bomb, I'm gonna go with Truman on this (and guess what Truman was a democrat, I'm reaching across the isle)


You know I love owning you. This board is fun as hell, I post articles and stuff, and you give me what your professor tells you.

and what oil interests were in Korea and Vietnam? Uh we didnt get em if they were there, kinda like +Iraq. You keep spouting we went for oil, but I dont really think it was, since the results havent shown it......maybe one of these days you'll learn about facts and proof to bolster and arguement.

I'll bet that you are ignorant enough to think you own Ike, too.

"...I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to (Secretary of War Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon ...no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

Dwight Eisenhower

The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb Copyright 1995 Gar Alperovitz

You know, you really should learn the definition of "own"

Maybe one day you'll be able to separate fact from propaganda.

Great Ole Ike disagreed, but it wasnt his ass on the line. So how many people do you think would have died in a battle. In The atomic bombs, we killed about 500, 000. And it shocked enough people they havent been used since, but again invading Japan, what , 1000 casulties? I mean Japanese pilots ran their planes into our ships, so their will was easily broken (That was sarcastic) So you think they would have just let us come on in? You realize how strong their will was, it took TWO Abombs, the first one did NOT convince them. Are you playing with a full deck, but I still want you to estimate the casulty numbers (and there MIGHT have been a few civillians, just saying). Lets hear it.

 

[The T]

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

How about it Georgie Boy?

 

[buckeye45_73]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

yeah I'd prefer all of those to waterboarding. I mean Gitmo it's so tough there, I'll have to see if they have tv and video games, I mean we cant be barbaric.

 

[georgephillip]

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

Well I can see you are, so after owning you on the civillian arguement, lets take alook at this one. I do one case at atime, but I'm like a Mounty, I always get my man.
Ok so they were'nt killing people outside of their country. hmmmm Hitler, how many deaths did he cause outside of his country? Stalin?

Now lets talk about inside, so your arguement is it's better to kill your own citizens them someone elses? Seriously? that's your defense?

You're more moron than Mountie.

Seriously, it's better to take the profit out of killing civilians anywhere; however, that doesn't change the fact that the USA has killed, maimed, displaced and incarcerated millions of civilians thousands of miles from its homeland since 1945.

Only shit-for-brains conservatives want to internalize that history.

BTW, do you need to Rush to tell you what to read, think and write?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

How about it Georgie Boy?

I think he's trying to respond to my kicking his ass, give him a moment, after all I'm a compassionate conservative.

 

[The T]

no dumbass...they were being killed by those regimes merely for wanting liberty and being vocal about it or they were suspected of wanting it.

you are an asshole.

how about it georgie boy?

i think he's trying to respond to my kicking his ass, give him a moment, after all i'm a compassionate conservative.

10-4

 

[georgephillip]

First of all you're really, really judgemental like most liberals, you dont judge gay people, no, no, but you do judge Truman for dropping the bomb. Excuse me but who attacked the US on 12/7/41? Uh I think it was the Japanese, now maybe your liberal professors told you something different, but they did and to invade JApan to END (isnt that what you would want is an end to that war?) they would have had to INVADE Japan, where estimates were
Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and several times that number for total Japanese casualties.
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you wanted millions of allies and even more Japanese to die? or drop the bomb, I'm gonna go with Truman on this (and guess what Truman was a democrat, I'm reaching across the isle)


You know I love owning you. This board is fun as hell, I post articles and stuff, and you give me what your professor tells you.

and what oil interests were in Korea and Vietnam? Uh we didnt get em if they were there, kinda like +Iraq. You keep spouting we went for oil, but I dont really think it was, since the results havent shown it......maybe one of these days you'll learn about facts and proof to bolster and arguement.

I'll bet that you are ignorant enough to think you own Ike, too.

"...I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to (Secretary of War Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon ...no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

Dwight Eisenhower

The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb Copyright 1995 Gar Alperovitz

You know, you really should learn the definition of "own"

Maybe one day you'll be able to separate fact from propaganda.

Great Ole Ike disagreed, but it wasnt his ass on the line. So how many people do you think would have died in a battle. In The atomic bombs, we killed about 500, 000. And it shocked enough people they havent been used since, but again invading Japan, what , 1000 casulties? I mean Japanese pilots ran their planes into our ships, so their will was easily broken (That was sarcastic) So you think they would have just let us come on in? You realize how strong their will was, it took TWO Abombs, the first one did NOT convince them. Are you playing with a full deck, but I still want you to estimate the casulty numbers (and there MIGHT have been a few civillians, just saying). Lets hear it.

Japan made it clear they would surrender when Russia agreed to participate in the Allied invasion.
Does the Taft-Katsura Agreement ring any historical bells for you?
(Ask Rush if confused)

 

[bripat9643]

Well to paraphrase...

When you sacrifice principles in exchange for security, you'll end up with neither.

The quote actually goes like this:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin -

I don't give a damn about your so-called "principles." I'm happy to torture foreign scumbags who murder and torture Americans.