Medicare fines over hospitals' readmitted patients (ObamaCare Kick In)

Follow up care is good,but It will be an added expense,who will pay??

You think the hospital will eat the additional costs?

The way hospitals are being paid is starting to change. The model in which hospitals generate revenue off an endless stream of widgets (including unnecessary and preventable readmissions) is in the preliminary stages of shifting toward models that reward them for doing a better job. That means when they provide the supports vulnerable folks need immediately after discharge, to prevent them from winding right back up in the hospital, they'll do better financially. As opposed to the current model, in which the hospital does better financially if that person ends up back in the hospital a week later. See the examples of what some hospitals are doing to deal with these financial penalties I've already posted above, e.g. using nurse practitioners placements to make sure folks weather the discharge well.

It's actually exactly in line with part of the MedPAC recommendation I just quoted:
The Commission recommends that this payment change be made in tandem with a previously recommended change in law (often referred to as gainsharing or shared accountability) to allow hospitals and physicians to share in the savings that result from re-engineering inefficient care processes during the episode of care.

These things are meant to work together precisely because they reflect a new approach to health care delivery that actually focuses on the quality of care the patient gets.

ah yes....the "new approach to health care delivery".......code words for socialized medicine....:rolleyes:

Obamacare IS going to change the hospital-doctor-patient model......doctors and hospitals will be forced to start to working in groups like former HMOs.....remember how crappy those were?

doctors will become like just fancy DMV employees....

"savings" is just another fancy code word for rationing....
 
Quality of care has nothing to do with it. Patients that drain resources because a hospital is forced to keep them because the patient can't be trusted with follow up care just won't survive the hospital stay. It is putting a decision to the hospitals of releasing the patient and risking a fine, keeping a patient in the hospital to occupy a bed or not having the patient at all.

There are many ways of resolving this problem, not one of them good for the patient.
 
a recent Doctor Patient Medical Association poll found that 74% of doctors say they will stop accepting Medicare patients or will leave Medicare entirely because of Obamacare

And that won't actually happen either.

Why? Are doctors going to be forced to do what government wants? Medicare is already a mess and it will get worse. Obama isn't saving Medicare like he claims.
 
The idea is that so much pressure will be put on doctors that they will give up private practice to be government employees. They will be salaried employees of the government.
 
a recent Doctor Patient Medical Association poll found that 74% of doctors say they will stop accepting Medicare patients or will leave Medicare entirely because of Obamacare

And that won't actually happen either.

Why? Are doctors going to be forced to do what government wants? Medicare is already a mess and it will get worse. Obama isn't saving Medicare like he claims.

It has little to do with the government. It's human nature. If you want to believe half a million doctors are going to give up their Porches and God complexes, to go work at Mcdonald's you go right ahead.
 
Of course they will refuse to readmit patients. They are fined no matter what the reason. If someone is wise, they just won't go back to the hospital where they got their treatment. Go to a different hospital.

It doesn't matter if the beneficiary is admitted to a different hospital, if it's within 30 days of the discharge the original hospital still gets dinged for the readmission. There's no benefit to diverting someone to a different facility, the readmission is still counted against the original hospital's numbers.

The way to avoid the penalties is to provide the supports the patient needs to avoid preventable complications and readmissions after they leave the hospital. As many hospitals are starting to do. That's good for the patient, it's good for Medicare (and the taxpayer), and it's good for the hospital.
 
ah yes....the "new approach to health care delivery".......code words for socialized medicine....:rolleyes:

Obamacare IS going to change the hospital-doctor-patient model......doctors and hospitals will be forced to start to working in groups like former HMOs.....remember how crappy those were?

Your doctors and other providers should be working together to coordinate the care you're receiving in different settings. If they're not (and at present they probably are not), that's expensive, wasteful, and potentially dangerous. That fragmentation in health care delivery, where Doctor A doesn't know what Doctor B is doing to the patient, is a major problem with the way things work now. It leads to a lot of money getting spent that doesn't improve the health of the patient or the quality of the care they're receiving, and in the worst cases it can actually result in injury or death.

That's why Obamacare is encouraging providers to work together more closely. But unlike HMOs, Medicare beneficiary choice of providers isn't restricted under the new models they're launching. Patients retain their choice of doctors and hospitals, but those providers are financially responsible for the quality (not just the quantity, as has historically been the case) of care they're providing to patients--they have to show they're doing a good job, including in the experience of care from your point of view as the patient, and coordinating your care with other providers you may be seeing. It's the best of both worlds.
 
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More abuse of government to tell us how to live. Ultimately, it's the same question we're always asking when faced with these overreaching regulatory schemes. Who decides what's best for us? Do we decide for ourselves, or does the state make the decision for us?
 
Let's see...first, reduce significantly what doctors will get paid under medicare, then gut $780 mil from medicare, but say it's OK because they will make up the savings in - try saying it with a straight face - reducing waste, :eusa_eh: and now fine hospitals for arbitary reasons?

Is there going to be a doctor or hospital in the country that's going to take medicare patients after this? :mad:
 
Quality of care has nothing to do with it. Patients that drain resources because a hospital is forced to keep them because the patient can't be trusted with follow up care just won't survive the hospital stay. It is putting a decision to the hospitals of releasing the patient and risking a fine, keeping a patient in the hospital to occupy a bed or not having the patient at all.

There are many ways of resolving this problem, not one of them good for the patient.

You make a good point - but for those people who cannot be trusted with their own follow up care - why should the hospital care about that? If someone ignores the advice of a hospital and makes themselves sick again, I think the hospital - any hospital - should be able to refuse to admit them.
 
Let's see...first, reduce significantly what doctors will get paid under medicare, then gut $780 mil from medicare, but say it's OK because they will make up the savings in - try saying it with a straight face - reducing waste, :eusa_eh: and now fine hospitals for arbitary reasons?

This is the waste. Or, rather, a slice of it. Expensive inpatient hospital stays that could've been avoided with a relatively small amount of spending on community supports or better discharge planning. Not every readmission is avoidable, but lots of them are. That's bad. It means we're paying big bucks for things we shouldn't have to pay for. Yet the hospitals themselves benefit from that waste because Medicare will pay them for re-dos even if they screwed up the first time.

That's one of the major points of the ACA: realigning incentives so that providers benefit financially not from wasteful or unnecessary services but from providing more efficient, more effective care. It's going to be a long process, efforts like this are just a toe in the water. But this shift has to happen or the system is going to collapse.
 
You make a good point - but for those people who cannot be trusted with their own follow up care - why should the hospital care about that? If someone ignores the advice of a hospital and makes themselves sick again, I think the hospital - any hospital - should be able to refuse to admit them.

This is about ensuring that hospitals have an incentive for having a robust strategy for preventing complications. Again, part of the rationale for this approach, as outlined by MedPAC, is:

Penalizing high rates of readmissions encourages providers to do the kinds of things that lead to good care, but are not reliably done now. For example, the kinds of strategies that appear to reduce avoidable readmissions include preventing adverse events during the admission, reviewing each patient’s medications at discharge for appropriateness, and communicating more clearly with beneficiaries about their self-care at discharge. In addition, hospitals, working with physicians, can better communicate with providers caring for patients after discharge and help facilitate patients’ follow-up care.

Prior to this change, there wasn't much of a financial incentive for hospitals to prevent readmissions, as reducing volume reduces revenues for them (even if it's a sign that better care is being delivered). This is a point I try to hammer on all the time: the way we pay for these services influence the way they deliver it. Inflationary payment approaches detached from quality are, in the aggregate, going to give you ever higher spending with little appreciable impact on quality, no matter how good-hearted and well-meaning any particular clinician is. That's why Medicare is starting to change the way it does business (giving cover to private payers to begin shifting as well). Medicare didn't only launch the readmissions reduction program yesterday, it also kicked off the Value-Based Purchasing Program.

Besides all that, it's not just about "trusting" the patient. Doctors and patients aren't disconnected entities; it makes sense to hold the former accountable because there's a lot they can do ensure that patients have the knowledge, tools, and supports they need to self-manage their own care.

Even seemingly small changes in the way an office or hospital does things can make a big difference:
Doctors are required by federal law to provide patients with a copy of their medical notes upon request, but few patients ask and doctors generally don’t make the process easy.

When patients were offered online access, however, 90 percent read their doctors’ notes with some impressive results.

A study published in the most recent issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine found that 60 to 78 percent of patients who read their visit notes reported that they were more likely to take their medications as prescribed. And their doctors reported that sharing their notes actually strengthened relationships with patients.
Study authors Tom Delbanco and Jan Walker of Beth Israel said they were surprised and delighted to find that patients who viewed their medical notes were more likely to take their medicines correctly. “Medication adherence is one of the greatest problems in health care,” said Delbanco, “yet flipping this switch seems to activate patients.”
 
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Quality of care has nothing to do with it. Patients that drain resources because a hospital is forced to keep them because the patient can't be trusted with follow up care just won't survive the hospital stay. It is putting a decision to the hospitals of releasing the patient and risking a fine, keeping a patient in the hospital to occupy a bed or not having the patient at all.

There are many ways of resolving this problem, not one of them good for the patient.

You make a good point - but for those people who cannot be trusted with their own follow up care - why should the hospital care about that? If someone ignores the advice of a hospital and makes themselves sick again, I think the hospital - any hospital - should be able to refuse to admit them.

I always thought that the democrat plan was to let people die. Thanks for admitting it.
 
People only get readmitted because they were not properly treated in the first place. Perhaps this will force hospitals to treat their patients, instead of sending them off with a pack of painkillers.

People also get re-admitted when they are sent home and they don't go by the doctors orders to take their medicine, keep the wound clean, or whatever they've been directed to do after leaving the hospital.

You can't put ALL the blame on the hospital or Dr's!
 
People also get readmitted because they get worse. They just get worse. They have a knee replacement that's working fine and then malfunctions. They are treated for a stroke, and then have another stroke. This law is designed to prevent sick people from getting medical care. There's no real way around it. Noomi said it correctly, the people should just be denied care until they die in the hospital doorway. This is what the democrat goal is. Deaths, otherwise preventable, is the fastest way to reducing medical costs.
 
Doctors not coordinating with other doctors on the care of patients is a poor way to doctor. I've long lamented that lack of coordination. It seems that most doctors have become 'specialists' in whatever field and you can end up seeing many different docs without anyone overseeing it all. That's bad. There should be an over-seer ... your primary care doc. My experience has been that this isn't always the case though.

My mom's heart doc prescribed blood pressure meds without consulting with her primary care doc, who also prescribed blood pressure meds. Result? Her bp was in her feet with zero energy to do anything at all, including getting herself dressed. After finding this out (no, it didn't occur to her that two different bp meds from two different docs would be a problem as she believed that they knew of the other's prescription and they're the doctors after all!) I got her to talk to the docs. They took her off of one of the meds and her energy level came back up.

Not all readmissions are preventable but there are many that can be stopped by coordinating information and care. That's not a bad thing.

Will hospitals refuse to readmit a patient because they don't want to get fined? Don't know, we'll have to see on that. Who ultimately pays for that fine though? Costs likes this always get passed down to the small fry.
 
People also get readmitted because they get worse. They just get worse. They have a knee replacement that's working fine and then malfunctions. They are treated for a stroke, and then have another stroke. This law is designed to prevent sick people from getting medical care. There's no real way around it. Noomi said it correctly, the people should just be denied care until they die in the hospital doorway. This is what the democrat goal is. Deaths, otherwise preventable, is the fastest way to reducing medical costs.

Some readmissions are preventable and those are what this seems to be addressing.

When my youngest was born (unplanned c-section) I ended up leaking spinal fluid from the epidural (advice: ALWAYS have the anesthesiologist administer the anesthesia!) due to the ob botching the epidural. I had to be readmitted for a day two days after I was discharged in order for them to fix it. Had they paid better attention to my constant complaint of a headache since shortly after my daughter was born, that readmission could have been avoided.
 
People also get readmitted because they get worse. They just get worse. They have a knee replacement that's working fine and then malfunctions. They are treated for a stroke, and then have another stroke. This law is designed to prevent sick people from getting medical care. There's no real way around it. Noomi said it correctly, the people should just be denied care until they die in the hospital doorway. This is what the democrat goal is. Deaths, otherwise preventable, is the fastest way to reducing medical costs.

Some readmissions are preventable and those are what this seems to be addressing.

They seem to be addressing all readmissions. Which is the nature of regulation vs law. We can hold hospitals accountable for irresponsible behavior without blanket laws like this - which always have unintended consequences.
 
I don't agree with this. It will hurt safety net hospitals like the one where I work either way. The hospitals that aren't safety net hospitals will just refuse admission for these patients and our hospital will be stuck caring for them or if it is our patients, the fines are more money we can't afford. It's as stupid as using Press Ganey to gauge customer satisfaction.

It's absurd to think that a percentage of chronically ill patients aren't going to be readmitted for HCAP or what have you regardless of the care they receive.

I like a lot of the ACA. I don't like this.
 
People also get readmitted because they get worse. They just get worse. They have a knee replacement that's working fine and then malfunctions. They are treated for a stroke, and then have another stroke. This law is designed to prevent sick people from getting medical care. There's no real way around it. Noomi said it correctly, the people should just be denied care until they die in the hospital doorway. This is what the democrat goal is. Deaths, otherwise preventable, is the fastest way to reducing medical costs.

Some readmissions are preventable and those are what this seems to be addressing.

They seem to be addressing all readmissions. Which is the nature of regulation vs law. We can hold hospitals accountable for irresponsible behavior without blanket laws like this - which always have unintended consequences.


Who is "we"? How are hospitals held accountable for too many preventable readmissions right now ... er, before this part of ACA?

I agree that not all readmissions are preventable and they need to look at the reasons for the reamits, not just lump them all together.
 

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