McConnell: GOP Will Fight To Let ANY Employer Deny Birth Control Coverage

[EriktheRed]

In lawyer speak, that means if you don't cover prescription drugs you do not have to cover contraception. Obama's mandate, on the other hand, forces all policies to cover contraception as part of their regular policy, not the additional coverage of a prescription drug plan.

It does?? Well, that's wonderful! Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Thanks for proving yourself to be a clueless idiot and totally incompetent to discuss the issue.

Thanks for showing how desperate you ODSing Cons are to see points scored against the Prez since the economy angle isn't working so well. Doesn't look like this issue is having the intended effect, though.

What economy angle? 15% real unemployment, inflation, $15,000,000,000,000 debt, spiraling energy prices, worthless $, massive deficit spending, bailouts, union payola, etc?

That angle?

No, the angle where Republicans and their media mouthpieces try to convince the public things haven't been improving. That's not working so well. Now they're gonna go full-on social issues, which has worked soooooo well for them in recent years.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please be aware of the door legislation such as this will open...mandatory coverage includes the following, if you support NO MANDATE, than these too will disappear:

Federal Mandated Health Benefits
Federal law includes a number of insurance-related mandates.

COBRA continuation coverage
COBRA provides certain former employees and their dependents the right to continue coverage for a maximum of 18 to 36 months.

Coverage of adoptive children
Certain health plans must provide coverage to children placed with families for adoption under the same conditions that apply to natural children, whether the adoption has become final or not.

Mental health benefits
If a health plan covers mental health services, the annual or lifetime dollar limits must be the same or higher than the limits for regular medical benefits.

Minimum hospital stays for newborns and mothers
Under The Newborns’ and Mothers’ Health Protection Act of 1996, health plans may not limit benefits for any hospital length of stay related to childbirth for the mother or newborn child.

Reconstructive surgery after mastectomy
A health plan must provide someone who is receiving benefits related to a mastectomy with coverage for reconstruction of the breast on which a mastectomy has been performed.

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
Disabled and nondisabled individuals must be provided the same benefits with regard to premiums, deductibles, limits on coverage, and pre-existing condition waiting periods.

Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
Requires an employer to maintain health coverage for the duration of a FMLA leave.

Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA)
Gives an employee the right to continuation of health coverage under the employer’s health plans while absent from work due to service in the uniformed services.

Pregnancy Discrimination Act
Health plans maintained by employers who have 15 or more employees must provide the same level of coverage for pregnancy as for other conditions.

State Mandated Health Benefits
The states differ greatly in the number and type of mandated benefits. The state of Idaho has the lowest number of mandates at 17 and Rhode Island has the most with 70.

You can find information about individual state mandates from several sources:

•Your state’s insurance department, which you can access from the website of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners
•The Kaiser Family Foundation website State Health Facts
•Georgetown University Health Policy Institute website Health Insurance Info
Both Sides of the Mandate Controversy
Much has been written about mandated health benefits and good arguments have been made by groups that are opposed to mandates and groups that support mandates. The following sources are a good start for understanding the differing opinions:

•From the Council for Affordable Health Insurance: Health Insurance Mandates in the States 2009
•From the National Women's Law Center: Mandated Insurance Benefit Laws - Important Health Protections for Women and Their Families

Your list is deceptive, COBRA gives you a chance to continue paying for the same insurance plan you had while employed, it does not contain any guidelines on what those plans contain. I just oppose mandates that require me to pay for things I will never use, if I want them I should have a choice.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Law on the books in Georgia:

In lawyer speak, that means if you don't cover prescription drugs you do not have to cover contraception. Obama's mandate, on the other hand, forces all policies to cover contraception as part of their regular policy, not the additional coverage of a prescription drug plan.

It does?? Well, that's wonderful! Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Thanks for proving yourself to be a clueless idiot and totally incompetent to discuss the issue.

Thanks for showing how desperate you ODSing Cons are to see points scored against the Prez since the economy angle isn't working so well. Doesn't look like this issue is having the intended effect, though.

I score points off Obama, and every other politician, every time they open their mouths, don't need to focus on one issue. Thanks for proving you are a partisan hack on top of being clueless.

 

[Mustang]

By Sahil Kapur

Not satisfied with President Obama’s new religious accommodation, Republicans will move forward with legislation by Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO) that permits any employer to deny birth control coverage in their health insurance plans, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said Sunday.

“If we end up having to try to overcome the President’s opposition by legislation, of course I’d be happy to support it, and intend to support it,” McConnell said. “We’ll be voting on that in the Senate and you can anticipate that that would happen as soon as possible.”

The Blunt amendment he was specifically referring to would “ensure that health care stakeholders retain the right to provide, purchase, or enroll in health coverage that is consistent with their religious beliefs and moral convictions” under the Affordable Care Act. Similar legislation was introduced by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) before the White House announced Friday that it would allow religious nonprofits such as charities, hospitals and universities to opt out of paying for contraception coverage and force the insurance company to do so instead.

More: McConnell: GOP Will Fight To Let ANY Employer Deny Birth Control Coverage | TPMDC

Yup, today's Republican Party has lost their fuckin' minds.

It's crazy alright. I guess they don't want any ovulating women to vote for them. Now that I think of it, men aren't going to be too crazy about it either.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Please be aware of the door legislation such as this will open...mandatory coverage includes the following, if you support NO MANDATE, than these too will disappear:

Federal Mandated Health Benefits
Federal law includes a number of insurance-related mandates.

COBRA continuation coverage
COBRA provides certain former employees and their dependents the right to continue coverage for a maximum of 18 to 36 months.

Coverage of adoptive children
Certain health plans must provide coverage to children placed with families for adoption under the same conditions that apply to natural children, whether the adoption has become final or not.

Mental health benefits
If a health plan covers mental health services, the annual or lifetime dollar limits must be the same or higher than the limits for regular medical benefits.

Minimum hospital stays for newborns and mothers
Under The Newborns’ and Mothers’ Health Protection Act of 1996, health plans may not limit benefits for any hospital length of stay related to childbirth for the mother or newborn child.

Reconstructive surgery after mastectomy
A health plan must provide someone who is receiving benefits related to a mastectomy with coverage for reconstruction of the breast on which a mastectomy has been performed.

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
Disabled and nondisabled individuals must be provided the same benefits with regard to premiums, deductibles, limits on coverage, and pre-existing condition waiting periods.

Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
Requires an employer to maintain health coverage for the duration of a FMLA leave.

Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA)
Gives an employee the right to continuation of health coverage under the employer’s health plans while absent from work due to service in the uniformed services.

Pregnancy Discrimination Act
Health plans maintained by employers who have 15 or more employees must provide the same level of coverage for pregnancy as for other conditions.

State Mandated Health Benefits
The states differ greatly in the number and type of mandated benefits. The state of Idaho has the lowest number of mandates at 17 and Rhode Island has the most with 70.

You can find information about individual state mandates from several sources:

•Your state’s insurance department, which you can access from the website of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners
•The Kaiser Family Foundation website State Health Facts
•Georgetown University Health Policy Institute website Health Insurance Info
Both Sides of the Mandate Controversy
Much has been written about mandated health benefits and good arguments have been made by groups that are opposed to mandates and groups that support mandates. The following sources are a good start for understanding the differing opinions:

•From the Council for Affordable Health Insurance: Health Insurance Mandates in the States 2009
•From the National Women's Law Center: Mandated Insurance Benefit Laws - Important Health Protections for Women and Their Families

Your list is deceptive, COBRA gives you a chance to continue paying for the same insurance plan you had while employed, it does not contain any guidelines on what those plans contain. I just oppose mandates that require me to pay for things I will never use, if I want them I should have a choice.

COBRA is a mandated benefit, no deception.

It is fine if you seek a no mandate benefit plan. I am merely pointing out that more than birth control is at stake. Autism testing, diabetes treatment, the family medical leave act are examples of benefits which most likely will dissipate as the reason for the mandates is because coverage was almost non-existent.

ETA: affordable coverage was almost non-existent

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please be aware of the door legislation such as this will open...mandatory coverage includes the following, if you support NO MANDATE, than these too will disappear:

Federal Mandated Health Benefits
Federal law includes a number of insurance-related mandates.

COBRA continuation coverage
COBRA provides certain former employees and their dependents the right to continue coverage for a maximum of 18 to 36 months.

Coverage of adoptive children
Certain health plans must provide coverage to children placed with families for adoption under the same conditions that apply to natural children, whether the adoption has become final or not.

Mental health benefits
If a health plan covers mental health services, the annual or lifetime dollar limits must be the same or higher than the limits for regular medical benefits.

Minimum hospital stays for newborns and mothers
Under The Newborns’ and Mothers’ Health Protection Act of 1996, health plans may not limit benefits for any hospital length of stay related to childbirth for the mother or newborn child.

Reconstructive surgery after mastectomy
A health plan must provide someone who is receiving benefits related to a mastectomy with coverage for reconstruction of the breast on which a mastectomy has been performed.

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
Disabled and nondisabled individuals must be provided the same benefits with regard to premiums, deductibles, limits on coverage, and pre-existing condition waiting periods.

Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
Requires an employer to maintain health coverage for the duration of a FMLA leave.

Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA)
Gives an employee the right to continuation of health coverage under the employer’s health plans while absent from work due to service in the uniformed services.

Pregnancy Discrimination Act
Health plans maintained by employers who have 15 or more employees must provide the same level of coverage for pregnancy as for other conditions.

State Mandated Health Benefits
The states differ greatly in the number and type of mandated benefits. The state of Idaho has the lowest number of mandates at 17 and Rhode Island has the most with 70.

You can find information about individual state mandates from several sources:

•Your state’s insurance department, which you can access from the website of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners
•The Kaiser Family Foundation website State Health Facts
•Georgetown University Health Policy Institute website Health Insurance Info
Both Sides of the Mandate Controversy
Much has been written about mandated health benefits and good arguments have been made by groups that are opposed to mandates and groups that support mandates. The following sources are a good start for understanding the differing opinions:

•From the Council for Affordable Health Insurance: Health Insurance Mandates in the States 2009
•From the National Women's Law Center: Mandated Insurance Benefit Laws - Important Health Protections for Women and Their Families

Your list is deceptive, COBRA gives you a chance to continue paying for the same insurance plan you had while employed, it does not contain any guidelines on what those plans contain. I just oppose mandates that require me to pay for things I will never use, if I want them I should have a choice.

COBRA is a mandated benefit, no deception.

It is fine if you seek a no mandate benefit plan. I am merely pointing out that more than birth control is at stake. Autism testing, diabetes treatment, the family medical leave act are examples of benefits which most likely will dissipate as the reason for the mandates is because coverage was almost non-existent.

ETA: affordable coverage was almost non-existent

COBRA is not a benefit, it is you still paying for your plan after you loose your job. A benefit is something that is covered by your plan, not an option to continue it as long as you pay.

When was affordable coverage almost non existent? The last time I looked health insurance was a lot more affordable before idiots started mandating benefits, but I guess I have things backwards, and prices have actually been going down over the last few decades. That is why we needed Obamacare, to drive the prices back up.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Your list is deceptive, COBRA gives you a chance to continue paying for the same insurance plan you had while employed, it does not contain any guidelines on what those plans contain. I just oppose mandates that require me to pay for things I will never use, if I want them I should have a choice.

COBRA is a mandated benefit, no deception.

It is fine if you seek a no mandate benefit plan. I am merely pointing out that more than birth control is at stake. Autism testing, diabetes treatment, the family medical leave act are examples of benefits which most likely will dissipate as the reason for the mandates is because coverage was almost non-existent.

ETA: affordable coverage was almost non-existent

COBRA is not a benefit, it is you still paying for your plan after you loose your job. A benefit is something that is covered by your plan, not an option to continue it as long as you pay.

When was affordable coverage almost non existent? The last time I looked health insurance was a lot more affordable before idiots started mandating benefits, but I guess I have things backwards, and prices have actually been going down over the last few decades. That is why we needed Obamacare, to drive the prices back up.

The nanny staters have virtually destroyed the free markets when it comes to health care. Hence the high price tag.... But this was all by design so that they could say "See? We need to take this over and fix it."

 

[EriktheRed]

In lawyer speak, that means if you don't cover prescription drugs you do not have to cover contraception. Obama's mandate, on the other hand, forces all policies to cover contraception as part of their regular policy, not the additional coverage of a prescription drug plan.

It does?? Well, that's wonderful! Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Thanks for proving yourself to be a clueless idiot and totally incompetent to discuss the issue.

Thanks for showing how desperate you ODSing Cons are to see points scored against the Prez since the economy angle isn't working so well. Doesn't look like this issue is having the intended effect, though.

I score points off Obama, and every other politician, every time they open their mouths, don't need to focus on one issue.

I shouldn't have said "you" earlier, since you are no one and neither am I. The guys who really matter, though, aren't gaining any traction.

Thanks for proving you are a partisan hack on top of being clueless.

Oh, you're not so above it all; it shows in your hair-splitting. Fact of the matter is this is not a losing issue for the Prez now that he made a compromise and the people who were crying foul just moved the goalposts. It shows what a bunch of partisan hacks THEY are.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It does?? Well, that's wonderful! Thanks for clarifying that for me.


Thanks for showing how desperate you ODSing Cons are to see points scored against the Prez since the economy angle isn't working so well. Doesn't look like this issue is having the intended effect, though.

I score points off Obama, and every other politician, every time they open their mouths, don't need to focus on one issue.

I shouldn't have said "you" earlier, since you are no one and neither am I. The guys who really matter, though, aren't gaining any traction.

Thanks for proving you are a partisan hack on top of being clueless.

Oh, you're not so above it all; it shows in your hair-splitting. Fact of the matter is this is not a losing issue for the Prez now that he made a compromise and the people who were crying foul just moved the goalposts. It shows what a bunch of partisan hacks THEY are.

Compromise? Apparently you and Obama have a different definition of the word compromise than I, and the dictionary, do.

a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

See there, in order for it to be a compromise both parties have to sit down, discuss the issues, and come to mutual agreement. Obama made up a rule, saw it was going to flop, and tweaked in a way that kept his side happy, without ever discussing it with anyone from the other side. That is not a compromise, it is an attempt to accommodate that failed.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Your list is deceptive, COBRA gives you a chance to continue paying for the same insurance plan you had while employed, it does not contain any guidelines on what those plans contain. I just oppose mandates that require me to pay for things I will never use, if I want them I should have a choice.

COBRA is a mandated benefit, no deception.

It is fine if you seek a no mandate benefit plan. I am merely pointing out that more than birth control is at stake. Autism testing, diabetes treatment, the family medical leave act are examples of benefits which most likely will dissipate as the reason for the mandates is because coverage was almost non-existent.

ETA: affordable coverage was almost non-existent

COBRA is not a benefit, it is you still paying for your plan after you loose your job. A benefit is something that is covered by your plan, not an option to continue it as long as you pay.

When was affordable coverage almost non existent? The last time I looked health insurance was a lot more affordable before idiots started mandating benefits, but I guess I have things backwards, and prices have actually been going down over the last few decades. That is why we needed Obamacare, to drive the prices back up.

COBRA is the option to continue with an existing plan, uninterrupted at a discounted price. This is a benefit.

An example of a mandated benefit which was not previously accessbile for most patients.

Breast reconstruction is a mandated benefit when a mastecomy is performed. Previously the insurance companies stated reconstruction was a cosmetic elective surgery, thankfully the government stepped in to provide women an affordable option to replace their breasts. I happen to find this an appealling example of government intervention.

A Comparative Analysis of Mandated Benefit Laws, 1949

Setting a national minimum standard for health benefits: how do state benefit mandates compare with benefits in large-group plans?
Frey A, Mika S, Nuzum R, Schoen C.
SourceCommonwealth Fund, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Many proposed health insurance reforms would establish a federal minimum benefit standard--a baseline set of benefits to ensure that people have adequate coverage and financial protection when they purchase insurance. Currently, benefit mandates are set at the state level; these vary greatly across states and generally target specific areas rather than set an overall standard for what qualifies as health insurance. This issue brief considers what a broad federal minimum standard might look like by comparing existing state benefit mandates with the services and providers covered under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) Blue Cross and Blue Shield standard benefit package, an example of minimum creditable coverage that reflects current standard practice among employer-sponsored health plans. With few exceptions, benefits in the FEHBP standard option either meet or exceed those that state mandates require-indicating that a broad-based national benefit standard would include most existing state benefit mandates.
Setting a national minimum standa... [Issue Brief (Commonw Fund). 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[JoeB131]

Last sane Republican? You are a fucking fascist idiot who wants the government to be able to threaten people who disagree with it with violence, if that makes you sane than I am delighted to be crazy.

Well, you are crazy. Also stupid. It amazes me how social cons work against their own interests. really.

The only thing that matters is the economy? You don't think freedom matters? Is having a good job and spending money more important than not being dictated to by the government?

It isn't a freedom issue. Sorry, just isn't. It's a law governing contracts and business, which the Government has the constitutional duty to do.

Romney looks uncomfortable and phony every time anyone challenges him, it has nothing to do with his pretense of being conservative, fiscal or social. The guy is an empty head with expensive hair.

God. Am I going to defend Romney here? Romney is a very smart man. He's even a sharp businessman. But he's really an immoral person who represents the Plutocratic wing of the GOP.

Sounds good to me, insurance should not be about providing routine care. If insurance companies actually think it will save them money in the long run they are perfectly free to offer it at their expense, something they would have do0ne by now if it actually worked the way you claim it does.

For the most part, they do. 86% of private insurance plans offer family planning coverage, becuase - IT WORKS. But let's put it this way. What if the Insurance companies take Obama up on his fig leaf and just offer free birth control to Catholic employees, no matter what the Church says?

OH MY GOD! we can't have anyone upset, they might complain to the government.

That in case you are even dumber than you have been working to convince me lately, is sarcasm.

Did you miss the part of the First Amendment about petitioning for a redress of grievences? I mean, I know you are all for the "Freedom of Superstition" part. But that's in there, too.

Why is that a bad thing? Romney is not yet the nominee, despite the anointing by the media, and pointing out that he is not actually a conservative is probably good for the Republicans.

That assumes you "conservatives" (not really) actually run your party. You don't. They will shove Romney down your throat. And you'll bend over and say, "Thank you, Sir, May I have another?"

By the way, his plan, like those in every other state, did not actually require religious institutions to pay for birth control, but thanks for helping Obama with his lies, what else would a sane Republican do?

His plan required Catholic Hospitals to give out abortion pills to rape victims. Learn to deal.

You think the Republicans should let Obama get away with something that takes away individual freedom just because not doing so might get people to vote for Obama? How is that sane?

Guy, it isn't about "individual freedom". We aren't talking about INdividuals. We are talking about organizations that have legal standing as corporations.

There's no "Freedom" being taken away here. If the men in dresses are still misogynistic because a sky pixie told them to be, they are perfectly free to do so.

They just can't be misogynistic to people who work for them.

 

[bayoubill]

eat shit and die, McConnell... you dumb motherfucker...

that felt pretty good to say that...

 

[frazzledgear]

By Sahil Kapur

Not satisfied with President Obama’s new religious accommodation, Republicans will move forward with legislation by Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO) that permits any employer to deny birth control coverage in their health insurance plans, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said Sunday.

“If we end up having to try to overcome the President’s opposition by legislation, of course I’d be happy to support it, and intend to support it,” McConnell said. “We’ll be voting on that in the Senate and you can anticipate that that would happen as soon as possible.”

The Blunt amendment he was specifically referring to would “ensure that health care stakeholders retain the right to provide, purchase, or enroll in health coverage that is consistent with their religious beliefs and moral convictions” under the Affordable Care Act. Similar legislation was introduced by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) before the White House announced Friday that it would allow religious nonprofits such as charities, hospitals and universities to opt out of paying for contraception coverage and force the insurance company to do so instead.

More: McConnell: GOP Will Fight To Let ANY Employer Deny Birth Control Coverage | TPMDC

When Obama announced his "exemption" he did NOT back off from claiming government had a right to force private employers to provide or pay for that which violated their religious beliefs or conscience -THAT is why Republicans haven't dropped it. But you want to pretend that amounts to something despicable? Let's have that debate then, ok? Because I find what government did to be a major violation of the Constitution that opens the door to government just claiming any powers it wants -powers it can only take by stripping them from US. This isn't about birth control -this is about government overstepping its Constitutional authority. The fact you approve of it doing so for THIS issue doesn't guarantee you will like it the next time -but the next time you have no real ability to put a stop to it anymore because you already handed it over to government for a cheap TRINKET.

Where the hell does government get off telling ANY private sector business what benefits MUST be included in any insurance they offer to their employees? Seriously? They have the right to not offer insurance at all -so what do you REALLY think is behind Obama insisting if private sector businesses offer insurance, it must be one dictated by government? Where did liberals get the idea that a one-size fits all approach which is the ONLY one federal government can take -is appropriate whatsoever when it comes to insurance benefits of all things? What if I run a business with numerous employees who have special needs children and they are all past child bearing age and they would prefer to have a policy more tailored to THEIR needs instead of one tailored to a pack of leftwing extremist females pretending they represent women's "rights" and by not offering birth control, it makes adding in a more generous special needs for children more affordable? What benefits my employees and I agree on as the best fit between US is OUR business -NOT that of federal government! Do you REALLY just not get what this means even beyond the Catholic Church??? This is an ABUSE of power by a government being run by power hungry extremists and was crafted to get the least resistance as government seeks to expand its powers and control over individuals. And does so in the lying ass name of pretending our "rights" come FROM government when in reality the nature of government is to constantly seek to strip us of rights and claim them for itself instead. And the power hungry count on people like YOU who see the dangling trinket and say "gimme, gimme". We have people in this country who think it is preferable to exist as state owned slaves than as a free people -and are more than willing to sell off MY liberty and MY real rights for any cheap bauble dangled in front of them!

When Obama said unwanted pregnancy was in reality the same thing as a DISEASE and therefore contraceptives fell under "preventative care" should have told you everything we need to know about liberals and liberal mentality. Sorry but unwanted pregnancy isn't a disease -it's a human life. Only a liberal would have the disgusting gall to claim the power to declare an innocent human life as a "disease". That seriously struck me as one of the most evil things he has ever said, giving me a clear insight into the man and his power hungry agenda. Calling birth control a "right" is a ploy to turn around and claim anyone who opposes being forced to foot the bill for contraceptives is in reality trying to violate the rights of others.

But the problem is -you can't uphold the rights of some by violating those of others and ordering people to foot the bill for something that violates their conscience, religious beliefs or morals is violating their rights. Only a liberal would insist the only way to uphold their rights is by violating the rights of others. If YOU want birth control -go get it. But that doesn't put any burden on ME to provide, pay or help you get it! Calling it a "right" doesn't change that and suddenly obligate me to do a fucking thing about it! REAL RIGHTS don't obligate other citizens to forfeit their own for you!

Your real rights do not put an obligation on other individuals to help you exercise them. Liberals are deliberately trying to pervert the very definition of "right" in order to justify the tyranny they ALWAYS end up seeking. If you don't understand what your REAL rights are, don't understand the true value of them, don't understand the Bill of Rights actually intended to take those specific rights off the table of any political debate -then how the hell are you going to notice when they come after your rights? So liberals pretend what is meant by "rights" are things you WANT and you WANT government to GIVE YOU. But government doesn't GIVE you your rights but liberals don't want you dwelling on that as they encourage an entitlement mentality that whatever your little heart fancies becomes a "right". Even if it means violating the TRUE rights of others to get it for you. How do you think a government that ends up turning on its own citizens are able to do it? They start by first claiming a power it did not previously have and uses the LYING ASS PRETENSE it needs that power to protect YOU and YOUR "rights" -a previously unheard of "right" that actually makes other private citizens OBLIGATED to GIVE you it. Your real rights place no obligation on another human being -it places only an obligation on government not to FUCK WITH IT. As Obama has now done with the Catholic Church -oh, in the lying ass claim others are OBLIGATED to give women birth control as part of THEIR rights -whether others want to or not! What kind of "right" is that where it makes servants out of some citizens in order to indulge the wish list of other ones? ANY clue where this really ends -because history is full of examples in case you really, really don't know. This is ALL part of the very specific leftwing extremist game plan on how to establish power by the deliberate perversion of the definition of "right" to one that protects what YOU do from being persecuted by government for doing it. To one where government persecutes you unless you do as it tells you. Your rights don't come FROM government but leftwing extremists NEED people to desperately believe they do -that government is our MASTER. That government is our SAVIOR.

It is part and parcel of leftwing extremism and leftwing extremists believe tyranny is the best condition for the existence of man. With them doing the tyrannizing of course -oh for your own good, because they know how to run your life better than YOU do -so they claim a "right" to do just that.

Liberals constantly insist it is conservatives who are doing all this "lying" -but consider this: American conservatives believe in a smaller, weaker federal government with power widely disseminated among the states and properly belongs to WE THE PEOPLE who claim the right to CHOOSE the laws by which we CONSENT to be governed. Liberals on the other hand LOVE large, powerful, centralized, massive, expensive government -everything they promote is done for the purpose of giving government more POWER over us all. Liberals believe people cannot be trusted to make good decisions on their own behalf and their ability to make those decisions restricted. Liberals believe THEY know how to run your life better than you, they believe they are smarter, wiser -and therefore have an inherent right to RULE. Notice the concept of "consent" is never part of the liberal agenda -but force and ramming unwanted laws down the throats of the people against their will typically is. It is liberals who favor that because they know THEY are the ones that would be sitting at the top of heap wielding all that power -while conservatives oppose allowing government to gain that kind of power and size no matter who wants to wield that power. So think about it -who is really most likely to lie here? Those seeking an ever larger and powerful government that can only gain more power by stripping it from YOU and OPENLY use bribery and manipulation to do it? Or those warning you to prevent it now because it is your REAL rights at stake here. Those seeking to expand their power over YOU will ALWAYS be the ones most likely to lie to you while they do it! And they get away with it with the help of people like YOU who start hyperventilating and insisting those who refuse to gladly become state owned slaves and just do whatever they are ordered to do are somehow violating your phony ass "rights" because you WANT whatever new cheap bauble is being promised to you are your "right" by the power hungry leftists. The power hungry know how to bribe their way and THIS is just one more and they will continue doing so until full power has been achieved and then power can be used to eliminate and destroy political opponents. No government can turn on its own citizens until it first has accumulated the power to do so. Conservatives oppose allowing government to do so for ANY reason -while people like you see whatever cheap POS is being used to try and entice you and gladly forfeit your REAL rights to government and then demand I do so as well! Sorry but MINE are not for sale. They need people like YOU to help accomplish THEIR true goal which no matter the current bauble being dangled, it is really ALWAYS about POWER and consolidating THEIR power. At the expense of YOURS. And MINE. And that of my children. They use, exploit and manipulate people kept ignorant about what is really at stake but are convinced to cheerfully sell their own rights for a cheap bauble they urge you to believe it is your "real" right even though it means forcing other private citizens to produce, provide, pay for and help you get it even if they must be forced to do so against their will. Look how many ALREADY believe that unless others are being FORCED to pay for or help you get it, it is YOUR rights being violated when it comes to birth control -but it is not violation of rights of those being forced against their will to provide or pay for it. Wow -the leftwing's control of our public school/political indoctrination centers have really paid off, haven't they? Since when did YOUR real rights involve forcing other private citizens to violate THEIR conscience or religious beliefs? Where is that one in the Constitution honey?

Will it really require YOU being the victim before you finally understand government doesn't GIVE us our rights -government only tries to TAKE more of them AWAY from us so IT can have more power over us all? Where in the Constitution does it say some groups have a "right" to force other PRIVATE CITIZENS to provide them with goods and services AGAINST THEIR WILL? No such right exists -because it isn't a right at all. How is this ANY different from government ordering the Catholic Church or any other organization or private employer to foot the bill for abortion services even though they believe it to be murder or not? Who gets to decide these issues? If you don't know, the Constitution already answered that one. And guess what -it isn't OBAMA.

 

[theunbubba]

Wow, that should get the GOP a lot of votes!

An employer should not be forced to offer any coverage at all of any kind. It's called a free country. Get a clue.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If we were smart about it, employers would, indeed, not offer any coverage at all.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, that should get the GOP a lot of votes!

An employer should not be forced to offer any coverage at all of any kind. It's called a free country. Get a clue.

Well, no, we got well past that point a long time ago.

Frankly, I think that employer based health insurance is a horrible idea. But that's the system we decided on when the rest of the world was creating single payer systems. If it hadn't been done that way, we'd have established an NHS style system in the 1950's. Except that system has holes in it, so that's why we have Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, etc.

Now, good, bad or indifferent, once you've established that's what you are going with, then you need regulations as to what constitutes a valid plan. Otherwise, they could just take the money and run away with it, couldn't they?

 

[JoeB131]

If we were smart about it, employers would, indeed, not offer any coverage at all.

Except then they wouldn't get the best people.

Remember how this whole system got started. It got started in WWII, when FDR imposed wage controls to keep experienced people from job-hopping when we went from 17% unemployment before Pearl Harbor to 2% unemployment in a few months. 16 million men inducted, women entering the work force for the first time, people were poaching each other's laborers. So they couldn't offer wages, so they offered health insurance as inducements to get the best folks. Soon everyone did. Unions got into the act because they wanted the workers first loyalty to be to the local rather than the head office.

I get job offers all the time, and sometimes they offer me more than what I make now. But the minute I ask what their insurance looks like, it's usually the deal killer.

Here's what the real problem is. Medical costs are going out of control. ObamaCare, and it's older cousin "RomneyCare" attempted to breach the gap by forcing people into the system. But once you do that, you have to standardize the service. Can't just put up some half-ass program and call it a plan.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If we were smart about it, employers would, indeed, not offer any coverage at all.

Except then they wouldn't get the best people.

Remember how this whole system got started. It got started in WWII, when FDR imposed wage controls to keep experienced people from job-hopping when we went from 17% unemployment before Pearl Harbor to 2% unemployment in a few months. 16 million men inducted, women entering the work force for the first time, people were poaching each other's laborers. So they couldn't offer wages, so they offered health insurance as inducements to get the best folks. Soon everyone did. Unions got into the act because they wanted the workers first loyalty to be to the local rather than the head office.

I get job offers all the time, and sometimes they offer me more than what I make now. But the minute I ask what their insurance looks like, it's usually the deal killer.

Here's what the real problem is. Medical costs are going out of control. ObamaCare, and it's older cousin "RomneyCare" attempted to breach the gap by forcing people into the system. But once you do that, you have to standardize the service. Can't just put up some half-ass program and call it a plan.

You missed my point. Look at your previous post.....my point is in there.

 

[JoeB131]

Not sure what your point is here at all.

I think Employer based health insurance is a bad idea, but it's the system we got. We aren't going to go to a Canada style system. Not anytime soon, anyway.

Employers will offer it because they want the best people. Which is kind of a problem, really.

 

[rightwinger]

I love how Republicans have now decided to make birth control an issue

Can you get any dumber than that?