Math and Science of Warming

[Wuwei]

Yep...and all it showed was how easily you are fooled...funny really...and sad.

The usual ad hominem. It means you have no cogent argument. Crap is you last resort. Science showed you were fooled with your confusing pressure from heat with heat from compression.


.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Likely cooler and again, nothing to do with the chemical composition of its atmosphere. Venus on the Event Horizon of a Black Hole would be hotter as well and just as pointless an exercise as moving out to Neptune's orbit or due to the chemical composition of its atmosphere

Likely cooler

Cooler? Isn't the pressure unchanged?

The further from the Sun, the more CO2 loses its magical ability to back radiate, right? So if we move Venus to the Oort Cloud, ever with it's CO2 atmosphere, it would cool, right?

To be consistent with magical Back radiation of CO2, I should have said that Venus would have the same temperature no matter where is space we place it

The further from the Sun, the more CO2 loses its magical ability to back radiate, right?

No, CO2 at 740K radiates the same in Venus' orbit as in Neptune's orbit.

I should have said that Venus would have the same temperature no matter where is space we place it

Did you get this silly idea from SSDD or did you come up with it on your own?

That's from listening to you. As long as Venus keeps it back radiation, it matters not where in Space you place it. Temperature stays the same. If we add more CO2 even at a light year from the nearest star, it would get even warmer, right?

It's amazing that Venus hasn't ignited in nuclear fusion and become a star in its own right. That must explain why its so bright in the early morning sky.

Quit trolling, start providing answers in integers. How much heat in kJ is generated by the 120 ppm of CO2

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do any scientific studies exist showing 120PPM of CO2 creating the additional 4.19KJ of heat necessary to raise the temperature of 1kg of water by 1C?

I think your 4.19 KJ is covered, being that the science talks about things on a scale of 10^22 J

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0375960112010389

Are you claiming that the 120ppm of CO2 generates 10^22 J?

 

[jc456]

well I thought that 99% of CO2 absorption is handed off through collisions

Exactly. A collision transfers the CO2 absorbed energy to kinetic energy of air molecules. Those collisions increase the average kinetic energy of air molecules. A measure of the average kinetic energy is called temperature. When the kinetic energy increases, the temperature increases. It's as simple as that.

well that isn't IR and wouldn't radiate back to the surface!

Guess now they will have to start claiming back convection and back conduction...

well they finally agree it isn't IR. funny how that changed.

 

[jc456]

That's from listening to you. As long as Venus keeps it back radiation, it matters not where in Space you place it. Temperature stays the same. If we add more CO2 even at a light year from the nearest star, it would get even warmer, right?

That's from listening to you.

I never agreed with SSDD's moronic pressure claim. You're confused.

As long as Venus keeps it back radiation,

What the hell does that mean?

If we add more CO2 even at a light year from the nearest star, it would get even warmer, right?

Now you're dumbing yourself down to jc levels.

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus when discussing Earth based CO2 "Global Warming" as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus

You mentioned 100% CO2. Venus is pretty darn close to 100%.
And to claim it's hot because of pressure and would be just as hot a light year from the nearest star is just SSDD level moronic. SSDD has been practicing his idiocy his entire life. If an amateur like you tries to match him, you'll just injure yourself. As a friend, I beg you, don't try.

as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

What do you think causes the temperature?

What do you think causes the temperature?

pressure

How?

physics?

so let me ask you, is it warmer when there is a high pressure system or low pressure system?

 

[Crick]

Frank, give it up. The forcing from the added CO2 and other GHGs is more than sufficient to have produced the observed warming of the land, the atmosphere and the oceans. The answer won't change no matter how many times you ignore the answers you've been given and ask it again as if you've just discovered something earth-shaking.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For the 5 weeks from 10/1 to 11/11, the CO2 map clearly shows that the largest contributors to CO2 are: i) burning of tropical rain forests in Brazil, Africa and SE Asia - and ii) China.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank, give it up. The forcing from the added CO2 and other GHGs is more than sufficient to have produced the observed warming of the land, the atmosphere and the oceans. The answer won't change no matter how many times you ignore the answers you've been given and ask it again as if you've just discovered something earth-shaking.

Strop trolling, answer with an integer.

You suppose that 120PPM generates heat -- how much? You need 4.19 kJ of this excess heat to warm water 1C. If you can't show with math and physics how much extra heat is created your theory fails.

Give a number or admit your theory fails

 

[Crick]

JC. Take a bicycle pump, attach it to one of your car tires (a low one if possible) and give it 20 strokes. Feel the base of the pump tube. Careful, it'll be hot. That heat came from the work you did compressing the air in the tube to the higher pressure of the tire. Now weight three minutes. Feel it again. What do you find? You find it has cooled off.

If we could somehow just dump an entire atmosphere onto a planet that had none. the planet's gravity would compress that gas and, assuming it had started out at a lower pressure, it would warm up. Now what happens? No further compression is taking place. Some of the atmosphere may move down into higher pressures, but the same amount of the atmosphere will move up into lower pressures. There is no further heating. The excess warmth will leave the planet in a geological instant. Venus has been sitting there for 3.5 billion years. Far, far more than enough time to cool off if nothing was causing it to remain at a higher temperature. Compression is NOT the cause of Venus' high temperature.

 

[Crick]

For the 5 weeks from 10/1 to 11/11, the CO2 map clearly shows that the largest contributors to CO2 are: i) burning of tropical rain forests in Brazil, Africa and SE Asia - and ii) China.

Fine. Look at the color scale Frank. 387 to 402.5 ppm. And the area around Brazil, Africa and Southeast Asia shows a range from orange to yellow green; perhaps one EIGHTH of the full scale or approximately 2 ppm.

2 ppm. Fossil fuel combustion will increase the Earth's - the entire planet's - CO2 levels by 2 ppm in less than 8 months.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For the 5 weeks from 10/1 to 11/11, the CO2 map clearly shows that the largest contributors to CO2 are: i) burning of tropical rain forests in Brazil, Africa and SE Asia - and ii) China.

Fine. Look at the color scale Frank. 387 to 402.5 ppm. And the area around Brazil, Africa and Southeast Asia shows a range from orange to yellow green; perhaps one EIGHTH of the full scale or approximately 2 ppm.

2 ppm. Fossil fuel combustion will increase the Earth's - the entire planet's - CO2 levels by 2 ppm in less than 8 months.

The bright red areas are from: rain forest fires and China. I'm not seeing bright red CO2 areas in NYC for example, or the Rust belt. If we want to lower CO2 isn't the answer to combat forest fires and curb China?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For the 5 weeks from 10/1 to 11/11, the CO2 map clearly shows that the largest contributors to CO2 are: i) burning of tropical rain forests in Brazil, Africa and SE Asia - and ii) China.

Fine. Look at the color scale Frank. 387 to 402.5 ppm. And the area around Brazil, Africa and Southeast Asia shows a range from orange to yellow green; perhaps one EIGHTH of the full scale or approximately 2 ppm.

2 ppm. Fossil fuel combustion will increase the Earth's - the entire planet's - CO2 levels by 2 ppm in less than 8 months.

That's not what the OCO2 satellite shows! The only human activity area that varies significant from yellow - is China! The rest is indistinguishable from background noise

 

[danielpalos]

New Cities in more optimal locations can benefit our economy and help green our environment.

 

[danielpalos]

We could use Eminent Domain to purchase properties subject to global sea rising and use those metrics to enable those affected to purchase property in new Cities in more optimal locations.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's from listening to you.

I never agreed with SSDD's moronic pressure claim. You're confused.

As long as Venus keeps it back radiation,

What the hell does that mean?

If we add more CO2 even at a light year from the nearest star, it would get even warmer, right?

Now you're dumbing yourself down to jc levels.

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus when discussing Earth based CO2 "Global Warming" as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus

You mentioned 100% CO2. Venus is pretty darn close to 100%.
And to claim it's hot because of pressure and would be just as hot a light year from the nearest star is just SSDD level moronic. SSDD has been practicing his idiocy his entire life. If an amateur like you tries to match him, you'll just injure yourself. As a friend, I beg you, don't try.

as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

What do you think causes the temperature?

What do you think causes the temperature?

pressure

How?

physics?

so let me ask you, is it warmer when there is a high pressure system or low pressure system?

First, go back to your claim that the 2nd Law causes gasses to radiate.

 

[jc456]

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus when discussing Earth based CO2 "Global Warming" as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

The one and only point is that it's beyond disingenuous to mention Venus

You mentioned 100% CO2. Venus is pretty darn close to 100%.
And to claim it's hot because of pressure and would be just as hot a light year from the nearest star is just SSDD level moronic. SSDD has been practicing his idiocy his entire life. If an amateur like you tries to match him, you'll just injure yourself. As a friend, I beg you, don't try.

as if it's CO2 that causes the 900F temperature on the surface of Venus

What do you think causes the temperature?

What do you think causes the temperature?

pressure

How?

physics?

so let me ask you, is it warmer when there is a high pressure system or low pressure system?

First, go back to your claim that the 2nd Law causes gasses to radiate.

done. now answer my question.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you thought, "IR absorbed by CO2 doesn't warm the atmosphere if the energy is then transferred via collision", yes, you were wrong.

how does the IR from the CO2 get radiated toward the surface?

How does the IR from the CO2 get radiated toward space?

How does the IR from the CO2 get radiated toward space

2nd law

IR absorbed by CO2 doesn't warm the atmosphere
sure it warms, through conduction.

The 2nd Law causes CO2 to radiate toward space?
Or does the 2nd Law cause the gasses warmed by conduction to radiate?

IR absorbed by CO2 doesn't warm the atmosphere?

sure it warms, through conduction.

Excellent. Don't tell SSDD you caught his error.​

Excellent. Don't tell SSDD you caught his error.

he has told you that already. you missed it obviously. but go figure.

Or does the 2nd Law cause the gasses warmed by conduction to radiate
anywhere there is heat is the 2nd law. but conduction and convection molecules above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

he has told you that already.

He admitted his error? Where?

but conduction and convection molecules above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

What is a conduction molecule?
What is a convection molecule?

I should have said the molecules handed off at conduction and convected above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

Are you just discovering that gravity keeps the air from flying into space?
Now, back to your claim that the 2nd Law causes gasses to radiate.

Not done.

 

[mamooth]

Are you claiming that the 120ppm of CO2 generates 10^22 J?

I'd use the word "retains" in preference to "generates". But yes, the CO2 is responsible for that extra heat, along with methane and other greenhouse gases.

Why does this concept confuse you so? It's observable in lab experiments. It's observable in the atmosphere, as we've directly measured the increase in backradiation from the CO2. The data says your theory is wrong, so your theory is wrong.

Quit trolling, start providing answers in integers. How much heat in kJ is generated by the 120 ppm of CO2

That's an idiot question, as the units don't match. It's like asking "How many gallons are in a mile?". You have to specify area and time frame for the question to make sense.

And if you do, I already gave the answer. Post #13.

 

[jc456]

How does the IR from the CO2 get radiated toward space

2nd law

IR absorbed by CO2 doesn't warm the atmosphere
sure it warms, through conduction.

The 2nd Law causes CO2 to radiate toward space?
Or does the 2nd Law cause the gasses warmed by conduction to radiate?

IR absorbed by CO2 doesn't warm the atmosphere?

sure it warms, through conduction.

Excellent. Don't tell SSDD you caught his error.​

Excellent. Don't tell SSDD you caught his error.

he has told you that already. you missed it obviously. but go figure.

Or does the 2nd Law cause the gasses warmed by conduction to radiate
anywhere there is heat is the 2nd law. but conduction and convection molecules above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

he has told you that already.

He admitted his error? Where?

but conduction and convection molecules above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

What is a conduction molecule?
What is a convection molecule?

I should have said the molecules handed off at conduction and convected above the surface are held in the atmosphere by pressure and gravity.

Are you just discovering that gravity keeps the air from flying into space?
Now, back to your claim that the 2nd Law causes gasses to radiate.

Not done.

I guess you are, since you believe that IR is back radiated to warm the surface.

 

[mamooth]

Perhaps I should remove the basketball from my garage. According to jc, frank and SSDD, the pressurized air inside is constantly generating heat, meaning it's going to burst into flame any second now.

The good news is how they've revealed a perpetual free energy source to everyone. If I rig up my white-hot basketball to provide heat to the input of a Stirling heat engine, it will output free energy forever.