Man tries to hire killer - to kill unborn baby

[Nienna]

It was my decision and I made the choice for a lot reasons. I owned my own house. I made very good money. I could afford to raise a child myself. But the main reason I choose to have her is because I loved the man.

I knew he wouldn't want it, and I knew it meant the end of it. But there was always that hope that maybe he'd change his mind and come around to the idea. But he never did.

He'd be almost 60 now. If he showed up at my door, I'd let him in. But he won't show up. His loss.

I'm so sorry. You seem to have a very faithful heart.

 

[Nienna]

And many doctors refuse to perform abortions so why do we need any state, much less the federal government, to pass laws about it?

Because it is taking the life of another person.

That's where the alcohol comes in. Must be nice to be perfect, but most of the rest of us aren't.

I am FAR from perfect. Just ask my husband! lol! However, I realize that the consequences of my actions are my fault. If I choose to get drunk, making me more likely to agree to sex, then I am willing to take responsibility for my actions.

That was exactly my point in saying we should outlaw alcohol. You don't exactly get humor or sarcasm, do you?

I got the sarcasm, but you seem to have missed mine.

Personal responsibility is up to each individual person. And abortion is not taking anothers life. You just think it is. That's your opinion. And when it comes tothe private medical decisions of others, thankfully, your opinion means shit.

You have no right to tell someone else what to do with their own body. Try to remember that. Abortion is about privacy and the right of any woman to decide what to do with their own bodies. It is none of your business and you need to remember that you are an absolute stranger who has no right to concern yourself with the private medical decisions of others.

Not telling them what to do with their own bodies, just defending the rights of the babies who can't speak yet. And just because you say it isn't a person doesn't mean THAT is true. Lots of scientific and logical justification for declaring the "fetus" to be a person.

 

[Annie]

I disagree with part of this. BOTH parents are equally responsible if a child is conceived. BOTH parents should share child support. I think BOTH parents' permission should be necessary to obtain an abortion. A woman has to sign off when her husband has a vasectomy. Even more important to have both parties in agreement when a child has already been conceived. If the man wants the child & the woman doesn't, the woman should be required to give birth, and pay child support. She should have used better protection if she really didn't want the kid. If the woman wants the baby & the man doesn't, he should have to pay child support. There are so many methods of birth control out there, there's not really an excuse, IMO.

I didn't have to sign off on my husband's vasectomy. Laws must differ on this.

 

[nt250]

Because it is taking the life of another person.

No, it isn't.

Abortion is a private medical decision. It's none of your business.

Name one other medical issue, that does not involve public health like treatment of STD's, ear piercing, tattoos etc..., that has a specific law written just for it except abortion.

Name one.

Abortion is about keeping women down. If men got pregnant there would be McBortions on every street corner. And don't kid yourself that there wouldn't.

 

[Nienna]

Abortion is about keeping women down.

This is a statement I can wholeheartedly agree with. Abortion IS about keeping women down. It's about keeping women in a state of immaturity, giving them excuses so that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. It is about encouraging women to deaden their natural instincts so that they are emotionally capable of killing instead of nurturing. It is about convincing them to eschew logic, and instead, cling to the fallacy that it isn't really another human being inside of them.

Many women make the choice to abort because of OUTSIDE pressure, not because they want to kill the child. Many women spend the rest of their lives mourning this "choice," with depression and suicidal thoughts a part of daily living.

I completely agree. Abortion IS about keeping women down.

 

[musicman]

This is a statement I can wholeheartedly agree with. Abortion IS about keeping women down. It's about keeping women in a state of immaturity, giving them excuses so that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. It is about encouraging women to deaden their natural instincts so that they are emotionally capable of killing instead of nurturing. It is about convincing them to eschew logic, and instead, cling to the fallacy that it isn't really another human being inside of them.

Many women make the choice to abort because of OUTSIDE pressure, not because they want to kill the child. Many women spend the rest of their lives mourning this "choice," with depression and suicidal thoughts a part of daily living.

I completely agree. Abortion IS about keeping women down.

That's about as fine a post as I've ever seen on the USMB. Wish I could point you twice.

 

[jillian]

Many women make the choice to abort because of OUTSIDE pressure, not because they want to kill the child. Many women spend the rest of their lives mourning this "choice," with depression and suicidal thoughts a part of daily living.

Too bad that's wholly and totally untrue and, unsubstantiated by any credible scientific research. That is a fallacy that the radical religious right likes to spread around. I've known many women who've had to make the choice to terminate a pregnancy and, while the decision may not have been an easy one and was, certainly, not made in cavalier fashion, not one regrets the decision and every one of them was at peace with the decision.

Why don't you ask someone who has no education, no substantial job, no husband in the picture, and who's had child she wasn't prepared to have about depression?

I completely agree. Abortion IS about keeping women down.

No...reproductive choice is about making decisions over the use of one's own body.

If your belief system dictates a particular way of looking at the world, then that is your choice and is to be respected. No one will ever force anyone who believes as you do to have an abortion.

Now if people who believe as you do would have the same respect for the choices made by women who don't share your religious beliefs, things would be just hunky dory.

 

[dilloduck]

Too bad that's wholly and totally untrue and, unsubstantiated by any credible scientific research. That is a fallacy that the radical religious right likes to spread around. I've known many women who've had to make the choice to terminate a pregnancy and, while the decision may not have been an easy one and was, certainly, not made in cavalier fashion, not one regrets the decision and every one of them was at peace with the decision.

Why don't you ask someone who has no education, no substantial job, no husband in the picture, and who's had child she wasn't prepared to have about depression?



No...reproductive choice is about making decisions over the use of one's own body.

If your belief system dictates a particular way of looking at the world, then that is your choice and is to be respected. No one will ever force anyone who believes as you do to have an abortion.

Now if people who believe as you do would have the same respect for the choices made by women who don't share your religious beliefs, things would be just hunky dory.

No----It's NOT totally untrue. Women HAVE had abortions due to outside pressure and regret until this day. Reproductive choice is all about changing the natural process of life so women can somehow feel more "equal" to men.
Religion and science have only served to confuse the real issue.

 

[Abbey Normal]

This is a statement I can wholeheartedly agree with. Abortion IS about keeping women down. It's about keeping women in a state of immaturity, giving them excuses so that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. It is about encouraging women to deaden their natural instincts so that they are emotionally capable of killing instead of nurturing. It is about convincing them to eschew logic, and instead, cling to the fallacy that it isn't really another human being inside of them.
Many women make the choice to abort because of OUTSIDE pressure, not because they want to kill the child. Many women spend the rest of their lives mourning this "choice," with depression and suicidal thoughts a part of daily living.

I completely agree. Abortion IS about keeping women down.

Excellent post, Nienna. Especially the part I bolded.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Too bad that's wholly and totally untrue and, unsubstantiated by any credible scientific research. That is a fallacy that the radical religious right likes to spread around. I've known many women who've had to make the choice to terminate a pregnancy and, while the decision may not have been an easy one and was, certainly, not made in cavalier fashion, not one regrets the decision and every one of them was at peace with the decision.

Why don't you ask someone who has no education, no substantial job, no husband in the picture, and who's had child she wasn't prepared to have about depression?
...

And exactly why couldn't that uneducated, unemployed, umarried and unprepared woman deliver that baby, and have it adopted by an educated, employed, married and prepared couple who would treasure it forever?

 

[jillian]

And exactly why couldn't that uneducated, unemployed, umarried and unprepared woman deliver that baby, and have it adopted by an educated, employed, married and prepared couple who would treasure it forever?

You're still talking about forcing someone to carry a child and give birth. If someone chooses to give up a child for adoption, then that is certainly a valid choice. However, it isn't our place to force people to do what we might wish them to.

 

[nt250]

This is a statement I can wholeheartedly agree with. Abortion IS about keeping women down. It's about keeping women in a state of immaturity, giving them excuses so that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. It is about encouraging women to deaden their natural instincts so that they are emotionally capable of killing instead of nurturing. It is about convincing them to eschew logic, and instead, cling to the fallacy that it isn't really another human being inside of them.

Many women make the choice to abort because of OUTSIDE pressure, not because they want to kill the child. Many women spend the rest of their lives mourning this "choice," with depression and suicidal thoughts a part of daily living.

I completely agree. Abortion IS about keeping women down.

Oh, please. You have no idea why a woman would choose an abortion.

If I had gotten pregnant from a one night stand, I would have had an abortion so fast your head would spin.

It's none of your business.

 

[nt250]

That's about as fine a post as I've ever seen on the USMB. Wish I could point you twice.

You really think so? It reminded me of the typical liberal arguments in favor of things like affirmative action. Let's make the government step in and "protect" people who are too powerless and dumb to protect themselves.

Yeah, we women can't decide anything on our own because we need people like Nienna to help us. Sure. Right. So much for her opinion on women.

 

[Nienna]

Too bad that's wholly and totally untrue and, unsubstantiated by any credible scientific research. That is a fallacy that the radical religious right likes to spread around. I've known many women who've had to make the choice to terminate a pregnancy and, while the decision may not have been an easy one and was, certainly, not made in cavalier fashion, not one regrets the decision and every one of them was at peace with the decision.

Why don't you ask someone who has no education, no substantial job, no husband in the picture, and who's had child she wasn't prepared to have about depression?

No...reproductive choice is about making decisions over the use of one's own body.

If your belief system dictates a particular way of looking at the world, then that is your choice and is to be respected. No one will ever force anyone who believes as you do to have an abortion.

Now if people who believe as you do would have the same respect for the choices made by women who don't share your religious beliefs, things would be just hunky dory.

Wouldn't be hunky-dory for the dead baby.

 

[Nienna]

Oh, please. You have no idea why a woman would choose an abortion.

If I had gotten pregnant from a one night stand, I would have had an abortion so fast your head would spin.

It's none of your business.

My pity goes out for your hypothetical unborn child.

 

[Nienna]

You're still talking about forcing someone to carry a child and give birth. If someone chooses to give up a child for adoption, then that is certainly a valid choice. However, it isn't our place to force people to do what we might wish them to.

Like forcing the baby to die?

 

[jillian]

Wouldn't be hunky-dory for the dead baby.

I just love those intentionally inflammatory phrases. I guess now I'm supposed to go all weak-kneed because you called a fetus a "dead baby".

That determination is based solely on your religious beliefs which I don't share and which, much as you might feel strongly about it, you can't force other people to share it.

We aren't equipped to make moral judgments for other people on this issue. So...follow your conscience. Leave others to therirs. You're in no better position to make a moral judgment than anyone else, no matter how well-meaning you might be.

 

[Nienna]

I just love those intentionally inflammatory phrases. I guess now I'm supposed to go all weak-kneed because you called a fetus a "dead baby".

That determination is based solely on your religious beliefs which I don't share and which, much as you might feel strongly about it, you can't force other people to share it.

We aren't equipped to make moral judgments for other people on this issue. So...follow your conscience. Leave others to therirs. You're in no better position to make a moral judgment than anyone else, no matter how well-meaning you might be.

Jillian, thank you for giving me credit for good intentions.

However, the fact that it is a baby, a live human being, is based on scientific, rather than solely religious reasons. This "fetus" has different DNA than the mother. Therefore, it cannot be considered a part of her body. Yet, its DNA is human DNA. This "fetus" is alive, scientifically speaking. This "fetus" is in a state of rapid development in which it would be impossible to fix a nonarbitrary point (after conception) at which one could declare it "a human." These are reasons besides the religious reasons why I argue that abortion is taking a separate life, instead of just a woman making a choice about her own body.

 

[jillian]

Jillian, thank you for giving me credit for good intentions.

However, the fact that it is a baby, a live human being, is based on scientific, rather than solely religious reasons. This "fetus" has different DNA than the mother. Therefore, it cannot be considered a part of her body. Yet, its DNA is human DNA. This "fetus" is alive, scientifically speaking. This "fetus" is in a state of rapid development in which it would be impossible to fix a nonarbitrary point (after conception) at which one could declare it "a human." These are reasons besides the religious reasons why I argue that abortion is taking a separate life, instead of just a woman making a choice about her own body.

You're welcome. It still doesn't mean I don't strongly, strongly disagree with you.

That is not scientific. And I'll tell you something.... MY religion doesn't believe life begins at conception and I find it overbearing when people think their religious beliefs should take precedence over mine.

As for your "scientific" determination, a fetus (not in quotes, Nienna, that's what it is ... a FETUS, not a baby), life exists on a continuum and the abortion question turns on nothing more than when the governmental interest in protecting a potential life exceeds that of the individual to make their own determination.

Really quite simple.

Let me ask you a question. Say you had tried to conceive naturally, but couldn't and ultimately got pregnant by in vitro fertilization. The doctor tells you that three of the pre-embryos implanted in the uterine wall and that means triplets. But he also tells you that you can't, physically, have more than one and if you didn't reduce the pregnancy, either you would die, the pregnancy would self-terminate or all the "lives" in question would be in danger. On the other hand, you're told that if you reduce to one, you can have the wondeful, healthy baby you want and live to raise it.

You think having a selective termination under those circumstances is murder?

 

[dilloduck]

You're welcome. It still doesn't mean I don't strongly, strongly disagree with you.

That is not scientific. And I'll tell you something.... MY religion doesn't believe life begins at conception and I find it overbearing when people think their religious beliefs should take precedence over mine.

As for your "scientific" determination, a fetus (not in quotes, Nienna, that's what it is ... a FETUS, not a baby), life exists on a continuum and the abortion question turns on nothing more than when the governmental interest in protecting a potential life exceeds that of the individual to make their own determination.

Really quite simple.

Let me ask you a question. Say you had tried to conceive naturally, but couldn't and ultimately got pregnant by in vitro fertilization. The doctor tells you that three of the pre-embryos implanted in the uterine wall and that means triplets. But he also tells you that you can't, physically, have more than one and if you didn't reduce the pregnancy, either you would die, the pregnancy would self-terminate or all the "lives" in question would be in danger. On the other hand, you're told that if you reduce to one, you can have the wondeful, healthy baby you want and live to raise it.

You think having a selective termination under those circumstances is murder?

Was the father involved in making this decision as well as the mother and the doctor?