Making progress, 40% of U.S. now allows carrying a gun without a permit.

[2aguy]

I hope you all lose your temper and shoot someone, better yet let you child or grandchild find your gun and shoot someone. I am sick of you gun freaks.

That was easy.....your true self emerges...a left wing hater who wants innocent people murdered simply because you disagree with them.......that is how people like you filled mass graves for 100 million people since 1917...

 

[2aguy]

I hope you all lose your temper and shoot someone, better yet let you child or grandchild find your gun and shoot someone. I am sick of you gun freaks.

gun freaks?

The 'gun freaks' are those that punish a 5 year old girl for pretending a stick is a gun,

That punish a child because he bit a poptart into the shape of a gun,

for punishing a child because he has a toy soldier holding a gun

that punish a child because he's wearing a tee promoting the NRA..

and for hundreds of other stupid reasons for punishing a child for their imagination.

THOSE are the 'gun freaks'

A fun freak is someone like 2aguy and others like him who believe guns are a panacea in the hands of all persons, when the facts state expressly such is a nostrum argued by charlatan's and those who profit from guns and ammo.

Did I ever say that guns are a panacea for all people....? No. Please show where I ever said that you stupid fuck.......with all due respect.

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, it doesn't.....actually studies say you are wrong.

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, some asshole attacking you is what encourages deadly force.

Spoken ^^^ with the authority of a gun freak. Having a gun in one's possession has an impact on their judgment, it gives some persons dutch courage, and thus some will go looking for trouble (Zimmerman style); go places they know may be dangerous; provoke violence when discretion is called for; or have Walter Mitty fantasies that they will be a hero for killing another person (judge or jury syndrome).

LE weeds out those who may manifest these and other red flags, during the hiring process and for a period of time under the tutelage of their FTO and superior officers. Civilians have no mentors, no use of force policy, are not trained in non lethal use of force methods, the use of a gun on a range; have not been evaluated by experience officers in the field; superior officers during hiring interviews or psychological evals - written and oral - before ever touching a service weapon.

Except...no.....in fact you are completely wrong......4.7 million people carried guns, legally, for self defense in 1997...in 2016 there were over 15 million people who now carry guns, legally, for self defense....

The gun murder rate went down 49%....dumb ass.......can you understand that fact, that truth and that reality...

Nothing you posted is based in facts, truth, statistics or reality....

Does it hurt when you talk out of your ass?



In Fact....nothing you anti gunners believe is true.....here is a recent example...you morons said allowing people to carry guns in bars would result in more shootings....and you were wrong.....again.....since over 40 states already allow it and Virginia just passed it in 2015.....

http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/334117/



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”


Read more at Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

If you say you were 'standing your ground', then yes.

And that is a lie....you have to actually show to a judge that your claim is valid...if not, you have no protection, dumb ass...

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, some asshole attacking you is what encourages deadly force.

Spoken ^^^ with the authority of a gun freak. Having a gun in one's possession has an impact on their judgment, it gives some persons dutch courage, and thus some will go looking for trouble (Zimmerman style); go places they know may be dangerous; provoke violence when discretion is called for; or have Walter Mitty fantasies that they will be a hero for killing another person (judge or jury syndrome).

LE weeds out those who may manifest these and other red flags, during the hiring process and for a period of time under the tutelage of their FTO and superior officers. Civilians have no mentors, no use of force policy, are not trained in non lethal use of force methods, the use of a gun on a range; have not been evaluated by experience officers in the field; superior officers during hiring interviews or psychological evals - written and oral - before ever touching a service weapon.

Do you have a single credible shred of evidence to back up this pile of ridiculous bullshit you call a post?

A 32 year career in LE, more than half of that time as a supervisor or manager: five years as supervisor of the domestic violence unit; three years as training manager; three years as manager of Juvenile, three years managing Internal Affairs and doing the recruitment, vetting (back ground investigations) and recommending to the hiring authority those in my judgement should be given a conditional offer of employment, at which time the more expensive items (medical, psychological and 832 PC training at the academy) would be provided.

And yet you have no idea what you are talking about....not even the smallest clue......that is amazing...

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, some asshole attacking you is what encourages deadly force.

Spoken ^^^ with the authority of a gun freak. Having a gun in one's possession has an impact on their judgment, it gives some persons dutch courage, and thus some will go looking for trouble (Zimmerman style); go places they know may be dangerous; provoke violence when discretion is called for; or have Walter Mitty fantasies that they will be a hero for killing another person (judge or jury syndrome).

LE weeds out those who may manifest these and other red flags, during the hiring process and for a period of time under the tutelage of their FTO and superior officers. Civilians have no mentors, no use of force policy, are not trained in non lethal use of force methods, the use of a gun on a range; have not been evaluated by experience officers in the field; superior officers during hiring interviews or psychological evals - written and oral - before ever touching a service weapon.

Except...no.....in fact you are completely wrong......4.7 million people carried guns, legally, for self defense in 1997...in 2016 there were over 15 million people who now carry guns, legally, for self defense....

The gun murder rate went down 49%....dumb ass.......can you understand that fact, that truth and that reality...

Nothing you posted is based in facts, truth, statistics or reality....

Does it hurt when you talk out of your ass?



In Fact....nothing you anti gunners believe is true.....here is a recent example...you morons said allowing people to carry guns in bars would result in more shootings....and you were wrong.....again.....since over 40 states already allow it and Virginia just passed it in 2015.....

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”


Read more at Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

Are you aware that your obsession and compulsive gun advocacy is pathological and a sign of mental illness?

 

[Nosmo King]

What is next, allowing murder.

If you say you were 'standing your ground', then yes.

And that is a lie....you have to actually show to a judge that your claim is valid...if not, you have no protection, dumb ass...

Thus spake George Zimmerman

 

[2aguy]

Gotta love someone who says that carrying a gun changes their judgement, and then quotes Law Enforcement, who carries guns, as the ones responsible for weeding out bad people.

Cops kill more people every year than concealed carry permit holders do despite being outnumbered 1000 to one, so how the fuck do you justify this bullshit?

It sure dose change their judgement, instead of running or turning the other cheek, the maj. or those with a gun on them will feel more powerful and full of themselves. One does not carry a gun without the intention to use it when they feel threatened in anyway (physically or verbally).

And actual facts show you have no idea what you are talking about.....

4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997

over 15 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2016..

Gun murder rate went down 49%....violent crime rate went down 75%

again...you don't know what you are talking about....

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

If you say you were 'standing your ground', then yes.

And that is a lie....you have to actually show to a judge that your claim is valid...if not, you have no protection, dumb ass...

Thus spake George Zimmerman

Boy...the stupid is strong with you...

Stand Your Ground was not involved in the Zimmerman case you moron......it didn't even come up, and was not used in the defense......try knowing the facts before you post...

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, some asshole attacking you is what encourages deadly force.

Spoken ^^^ with the authority of a gun freak. Having a gun in one's possession has an impact on their judgment, it gives some persons dutch courage, and thus some will go looking for trouble (Zimmerman style); go places they know may be dangerous; provoke violence when discretion is called for; or have Walter Mitty fantasies that they will be a hero for killing another person (judge or jury syndrome).

LE weeds out those who may manifest these and other red flags, during the hiring process and for a period of time under the tutelage of their FTO and superior officers. Civilians have no mentors, no use of force policy, are not trained in non lethal use of force methods, the use of a gun on a range; have not been evaluated by experience officers in the field; superior officers during hiring interviews or psychological evals - written and oral - before ever touching a service weapon.

Except...no.....in fact you are completely wrong......4.7 million people carried guns, legally, for self defense in 1997...in 2016 there were over 15 million people who now carry guns, legally, for self defense....

The gun murder rate went down 49%....dumb ass.......can you understand that fact, that truth and that reality...

Nothing you posted is based in facts, truth, statistics or reality....

Does it hurt when you talk out of your ass?



In Fact....nothing you anti gunners believe is true.....here is a recent example...you morons said allowing people to carry guns in bars would result in more shootings....and you were wrong.....again.....since over 40 states already allow it and Virginia just passed it in 2015.....

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”


Read more at Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

Are you aware that your obsession and compulsive gun advocacy is pathological and a sign of mental illness?

Says you......being as clinically stupid as you are should be a reason to have you committed.....but the law is the law....

 

[2aguy]

What is next, allowing murder.

That you make an equivalency between allowing law abiding citizens to open carry on the one hand and murder on the other shows that you are a brain addled moron.

What makes one an unlawful citizen. A split second of poor judgement ( you moron) or an accident which is the case with children . A gun changes people, whether you admit it or not.

Most law abiding citizens will say it accidently went off, or I just lost it for a minute, didn't mean to.

No.....those who actually commit murder are 90% of the time violent criminals with long criminal histories and felonies...the lie that a gun turns John Q. Citizen into a killer is an anti gunner lie.....even the victims of shootings are 70-80% of the time felons and those left over, a large number are friends and family of the criminals ....so your post, again, is not based in fact or reality.

 

[2aguy]

If I felt that threatened in my day-to-day life that I needed to carry a gun, I'd carry a gun and screw the permit.

But I don't so I don't.

Great point. Do you imagine these gun enthusiasts really feel they are in imminent danger, or, in your opinion, do they just want to be the hero gunslinger?

how many concealed carry permit holders pull their weapons and play gunslinger in any one day?

Okay. How many? How many folks use their concealed weapons daily in events of imminent danger?

bill clinton and barak obama both stated that Americans use their guns to stop violent attacks at least 1,500,000 times a year....and have to actually kill their attacker about 235 times a year...the rest of the time the attacker runs away, is captured and held for police or is simply wounded if they are stupid enough to press the attack against a victim with a gun....

 

[2aguy]

If I felt that threatened in my day-to-day life that I needed to carry a gun, I'd carry a gun and screw the permit.

But I don't so I don't.

Great point. Do you imagine these gun enthusiasts really feel they are in imminent danger, or, in your opinion, do they just want to be the hero gunslinger?

how many concealed carry permit holders pull their weapons and play gunslinger in any one day?

Okay. How many? How many folks use their concealed weapons daily in events of imminent danger?

Here you go.....obama and clinton's studies are also on this list....

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

and more information about using a gun to stop a violent attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.)

The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[2aguy]

Gotta love someone who says that carrying a gun changes their judgement, and then quotes Law Enforcement, who carries guns, as the ones responsible for weeding out bad people.

Cops kill more people every year than concealed carry permit holders do despite being outnumbered 1000 to one, so how the fuck do you justify this bullshit?

It sure dose change their judgement, instead of running or turning the other cheek, the maj. or those with a gun on them will feel more powerful and full of themselves. One does not carry a gun without the intention to use it when they feel threatened in anyway (physically or verbally).

Here you go.....

http://people.terry.uga.edu/mustard/culture-data.pdf

For instance, data have compelled me to significantly change my viewpoints on gun-related issues. When I started my research on guns in 1995, I passionately disliked firearms and fully accepted the conventional wisdom that increasing the gunownership rate would necessarily raise violent crime and accidental deaths. My views on this subject were formed primarily by media accounts of firearms, which unknowingly to me systematically emphasized the costs of firearms while virtually ignoring their benefits.5 I thought it obvious that passing laws that permitted law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons would create many problems.

---------

I became convinced otherwise and concluded that shall-issue laws—laws that require permits to be granted unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness—reduce violent crime and have no impact on accidental deaths.6 My transformation is not unique; other scholars, such as Gary Kleck, have significantly changed their views about firearms as they learned more about the evidence.

One of the most startling conclusions leading to my transformation was that concealed-weapons permit holders are extremely law abiding. Rarely do they use their guns for inappropriate purposes.8 I was most surprised that evidence from many different states and time periods overwhelmingly rejects the claim that concealed-carry laws will usher in a new era of the “wild west.”


For example, in Multnomah County, Oregon, only 1 of 11,140 permit holders illegally used a firearm against another person during a four-year period—an annual rate of only 0.2 incidents for every 10,000 holders.9

The annual rate in Florida over a seven-year period was even lower: 18 crimes involving firearms were committed by gun owners with licenses, out of 221,443 total licenses, producing an annual rate of 0.1 incidents for every 10,000 holders.10


Many students, academics, and general citizens have told me how the growing amount and quality of empirical evidence has encouraged them to change their minds on this issue.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Gotta love someone who says that carrying a gun changes their judgement, and then quotes Law Enforcement, who carries guns, as the ones responsible for weeding out bad people.

Cops kill more people every year than concealed carry permit holders do despite being outnumbered 1000 to one, so how the fuck do you justify this bullshit?

It sure dose change their judgement, instead of running or turning the other cheek, the maj. or those with a gun on them will feel more powerful and full of themselves. One does not carry a gun without the intention to use it when they feel threatened in anyway (physically or verbally).

Here you go.....

http://people.terry.uga.edu/mustard/culture-data.pdf

For instance, data have compelled me to significantly change my viewpoints on gun-related issues. When I started my research on guns in 1995, I passionately disliked firearms and fully accepted the conventional wisdom that increasing the gunownership rate would necessarily raise violent crime and accidental deaths. My views on this subject were formed primarily by media accounts of firearms, which unknowingly to me systematically emphasized the costs of firearms while virtually ignoring their benefits.5 I thought it obvious that passing laws that permitted law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons would create many problems.

---------

I became convinced otherwise and concluded that shall-issue laws—laws that require permits to be granted unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness—reduce violent crime and have no impact on accidental deaths.6 My transformation is not unique; other scholars, such as Gary Kleck, have significantly changed their views about firearms as they learned more about the evidence.

One of the most startling conclusions leading to my transformation was that concealed-weapons permit holders are extremely law abiding. Rarely do they use their guns for inappropriate purposes.8 I was most surprised that evidence from many different states and time periods overwhelmingly rejects the claim that concealed-carry laws will usher in a new era of the “wild west.”


For example, in Multnomah County, Oregon, only 1 of 11,140 permit holders illegally used a firearm against another person during a four-year period—an annual rate of only 0.2 incidents for every 10,000 holders.9

The annual rate in Florida over a seven-year period was even lower: 18 crimes involving firearms were committed by gun owners with licenses, out of 221,443 total licenses, producing an annual rate of 0.1 incidents for every 10,000 holders.10


Many students, academics, and general citizens have told me how the growing amount and quality of empirical evidence has encouraged them to change their minds on this issue.

301.4 OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE PERSONALITY DISORDER (see the DSM-IV revised )

 

[Penelope]

I hope you all lose your temper and shoot someone, better yet let you child or grandchild find your gun and shoot someone. I am sick of you gun freaks.

That was easy.....your true self emerges...a left wing hater who wants innocent people murdered simply because you disagree with them.......that is how people like you filled mass graves for 100 million people since 1917...

No that is what happens to many people who carry and have guns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If I felt that threatened in my day-to-day life that I needed to carry a gun, I'd carry a gun and screw the permit.

But I don't so I don't.

Great point. Do you imagine these gun enthusiasts really feel they are in imminent danger, or, in your opinion, do they just want to be the hero gunslinger?

how many concealed carry permit holders pull their weapons and play gunslinger in any one day?

Okay. How many? How many folks use their concealed weapons daily in events of imminent danger?

Don't know don't care. A weapon that is not used is of no consequence

but if that weapon is used once in a person's lifetime to save the life of the person it was worth it

Aw! C'mon! there has to be statistics relating to the use of concealed weapons thwarting crime! If you have to carry a gun to protect yourself, and it turns out there is no real threat, why carry one?

If the streets are as dangerous as you would have us believe, prove it.

I'm sure there are and feel free to look for them
As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant

A weapon is no different than an insurance policy. You carry hoping yo will never need it but on the off chance you do you're god damned glad you had it

 

[Skull Pilot]

What other forms of personal protection do you equip yourself with when you're out and about?

What is next, allowing murder.

We are past that, "stand your ground" encourages deadly force.

No, some asshole attacking you is what encourages deadly force.

Spoken ^^^ with the authority of a gun freak. Having a gun in one's possession has an impact on their judgment, it gives some persons dutch courage, and thus some will go looking for trouble (Zimmerman style); go places they know may be dangerous; provoke violence when discretion is called for; or have Walter Mitty fantasies that they will be a hero for killing another person (judge or jury syndrome).

LE weeds out those who may manifest these and other red flags, during the hiring process and for a period of time under the tutelage of their FTO and superior officers. Civilians have no mentors, no use of force policy, are not trained in non lethal use of force methods, the use of a gun on a range; have not been evaluated by experience officers in the field; superior officers during hiring interviews or psychological evals - written and oral - before ever touching a service weapon.

Except...no.....in fact you are completely wrong......4.7 million people carried guns, legally, for self defense in 1997...in 2016 there were over 15 million people who now carry guns, legally, for self defense....

The gun murder rate went down 49%....dumb ass.......can you understand that fact, that truth and that reality...

Nothing you posted is based in facts, truth, statistics or reality....

Does it hurt when you talk out of your ass?



In Fact....nothing you anti gunners believe is true.....here is a recent example...you morons said allowing people to carry guns in bars would result in more shootings....and you were wrong.....again.....since over 40 states already allow it and Virginia just passed it in 2015.....

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”


Read more at Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

Are you aware that your obsession and compulsive gun advocacy is pathological and a sign of mental illness?

sort of like your Rush Limbaugh obsession