Looks Like the Public Isn't Interested In Cutting Spending

[Flopper]

Just because americans want to keep medicare intact (which is something we all need, healthcare), does not mean they are opposed to spending cuts. We could competitive bid the drugs consumed under medicare part D instead of the sweetheart deal the repubs gave big pharma (pay list price for drugs under medicare part D). The public wants to cut spending by being more efficient, not by killing programs.

I use to think the same thing about the Medicare Drug program. However, Medicare does not directly offer the Drug program. It is offered by insurance companies. The insurance companies make deals with the pharmacy chains or drug manufactures to lower the price of the drugs. The big cost items are the brand name drugs. Since brand drugs are unique, I don't see how Medicare could bid them. Generic drugs, yes but not brand names.

I completely agree the public will support cost reductions in Medicare, but not major reductions in it's functionality.

Don't make it sound so noble, hanging on the mantle of the 'free market' like that. The truth is that the insurance lobby wrote a sweet deal for congress to rubber stamp along for GW's John Hancock when Medicare 'D' was born where in the taxpayers bear all risk and the insurers bank the profits.

Meanwhile, the consumer gets confusion, frustration and paperwork - also good for the insurance bottom line. It's a win-win!

I agree. Part D is a mess. Congress created a program that most insurance company do not understand and they expect seniors to understand it and make wise choices; really dumb. The insurance companies in effect create their own plans based on government criteria. Each company is allowed to cover different drugs with different copays different deductibles and different premiums. The insurance companies are reimbursed by Medicare for the cost of the drugs. The premiums cover profits, overhead, administration costs. The bill for taxpayer is 50 billion a year. If the seniors were allowed to carry only catastrophic drug and were allowed to buy their drugs overseas, everyone would save money, a lot of money.

 

[M14 Shooter]

In a recent ABC/Washington Post poll, Americans were in no mood to cut entitlement programs...

All this means is that Americans are willing to have the country continue on with untenable deficits and rack up a debt that will eventually cause our collapse.

The OP seems pretty happy with that.

Until it happens.

And then he'll the first to whine and cry.

 

[Flopper]

In a recent ABC/Washington Post poll, Americans were in no mood to cut entitlement programs...

All this means is that Americans are willing to have the country continue on with untenable deficits and rack up a debt that will eventually cause our collapse.

The OP seems pretty happy with that.

Until it happens.

And then he'll the first to whine and cry.

I disagree. I think most people do want something done. Americans have proved in the past they are willing to make sacrifices as long as those sacrifices are fair and balanced so no group has to bear all the burden.

 

[M14 Shooter]

In a recent ABC/Washington Post poll, Americans were in no mood to cut entitlement programs...

All this means is that Americans are willing to have the country continue on with untenable deficits and rack up a debt that will eventually cause our collapse.

The OP seems pretty happy with that.

Until it happens.

And then he'll the first to whine and cry.

I disagree. I think most people do want something done. Americans have proved in the past they are willing to make sacrifices as long as those sacrifices are fair and balanced so no group has to bear all the burden.

So you agree, that those receiving benefits from entitlements must bear some of the burden as well.
Good for you!

 

[Synthaholic]

I do not doubt that this poll might very well have been designed to evoke a certain response.

After all, most polls today do seem to be designed to arrive at the outcome the designers are hoping for.

But nevertheless the people responded to something that is real even if it is not the whole story.

People DO want medicade and medicare to surive. Hence the outcome of this poll.

However if the poll had included information about how those HC insurance liabilities are going to bankrupt the nation, the outcome would have been different.

But how do you think people would REACT (not vote, but react) if suddenly their grandmother wasn't getting the HC she needed?

Do you think they'd say, that's okay?

Even knowing that the nation is going bankrupt, what do you think the average American is going to think when GM doesn't get her health care?

Do you RW cranks on this board still think the average American is going to support your anti-government Randian POVs?

I think that public sentiment will stop on dime and reverse itself within a month.

I honest think the BEST thing that could happen to this nation is for you RAndians to get your way, to shut down the Federal government just so the American people can see what that society would look like.

I suspect a few of you here, those of you counting on your military retirement checks and the VA, are going to suddenly remember that YOU TOO are dependents of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE'll see how serious you guys are about shutting down the nanny state government when YOUR NANNY gets gored.

Well, my two grandmas are both dead.
How do you think people will react when asked if they would support paying an extra $3,000/year in taxes to support some fat slob smoker who's had his third MI?
Democrats breed irresponsible behavior and foist this off on everyone else.

AVG-MOM is alive and well because of Medicare. She faithfully paid the taxes all her working career and when she got old and needed care, it was there for her.

Do you want to talk tit-for-tat irresponsible waste of public resources? How about $3 TRILLION spent on blowing things up in Iraq? THAT one belongs to the republicans - hook, line and sinker.

Not only blowing things up - rebuilding them for Iraqis, on our dime!

Republicans are all for new schools and infrastructure - in Iraq.

 

[Flopper]

All this means is that Americans are willing to have the country continue on with untenable deficits and rack up a debt that will eventually cause our collapse.

The OP seems pretty happy with that.

Until it happens.

And then he'll the first to whine and cry.

I disagree. I think most people do want something done. Americans have proved in the past they are willing to make sacrifices as long as those sacrifices are fair and balanced so no group has to bear all the burden.

So you agree, that those receiving benefits from entitlements must bear some of the burden as well.
Good for you!

Of course. By small cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and across the board cuts in all other government spending, getting out Iraq, and Afghanistan, and increase Social Security Retirement Age we will have enough spending cuts. On revenue side, we should increase individual tax rates. For corporations, we should reduce rates and eliminate tax loopholes that encourage oversea investments.

 

[Big Fitz]

I disagree. I think most people do want something done. Americans have proved in the past they are willing to make sacrifices as long as those sacrifices are fair and balanced so no group has to bear all the burden.

So you agree, that those receiving benefits from entitlements must bear some of the burden as well.
Good for you!

Of course. By small cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and across the board cuts in all other government spending, getting out Iraq, and Afghanistan, and increase Social Security Retirement Age we will have enough spending cuts. On revenue side, we should increase individual tax rates. For corporations, we should reduce rates and eliminate tax loopholes that encourage oversea investments.

Our time for small universal cuts has passed. Now we're looking at 20% universal cuts or higher if we're going to do this without targeting one area over another. But everone's Ox needs to be gored.

 

[Annie]

Average Americans seem to put high priority on cutting the deficit, by both spending cuts and raising taxes, though not only on the 'rich' and not 'across the board cuts':

Program for Public Consultation

 

[M14 Shooter]

I disagree. I think most people do want something done. Americans have proved in the past they are willing to make sacrifices as long as those sacrifices are fair and balanced so no group has to bear all the burden.

So you agree, that those receiving benefits from entitlements must bear some of the burden as well.
Good for you!

Of course. By small cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and across the board cuts in all other government spending, getting out Iraq, and Afghanistan, and increase Social Security Retirement Age we will have enough spending cuts.

Specifically, how much?

On revenue side, we should increase individual tax rates.

Specifically, how much?

 

[Big Fitz]

Average Americans seem to put high priority on cutting the deficit, by both spending cuts and raising taxes, though not only on the 'rich' and not 'across the board cuts':

Program for Public Consultation

We are a recipe for disaster, knowing what needs be done, but no idea in how to do it so we don't take the brunt, when that's unavoidable... so we put it off till it becomes a horror show.

This is how the nazis and Hugo Chavez came to power you know.

 

[finebead]

The reason we are having so much "apparent" trouble cutting the budget is that both the repubs and dems take care of corp. america, and to keep taking care of corp. america in this time of "LESS", they are really gonna have to screw the little guy. That is why the people don't like any of the politicians plans.

Rule #1: Don't listen to what they are saying, watch what they are DOING!

 

[Flopper]

So you agree, that those receiving benefits from entitlements must bear some of the burden as well.
Good for you!

Of course. By small cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and across the board cuts in all other government spending, getting out Iraq, and Afghanistan, and increase Social Security Retirement Age we will have enough spending cuts. On revenue side, we should increase individual tax rates. For corporations, we should reduce rates and eliminate tax loopholes that encourage oversea investments.

Our time for small universal cuts has passed. Now we're looking at 20% universal cuts or higher if we're going to do this without targeting one area over another. But everone's Ox needs to be gored.

No. The goal should be to bring the deficit below projected GDP growth, about 400 billion. The cuts in the deficits can be spread over 10 years. It took us about 10 years to get into this mess, so I think that is the appropriate time table to get us out. Also the current and projected growth in GDP will increase tax revenues. I think a 450 billion/yr cut plus 450billion/yr increase in revenues from tax is need.

 

[Annie]

Average Americans seem to put high priority on cutting the deficit, by both spending cuts and raising taxes, though not only on the 'rich' and not 'across the board cuts':

Program for Public Consultation

We are a recipe for disaster, knowing what needs be done, but no idea in how to do it so we don't take the brunt, when that's unavoidable... so we put it off till it becomes a horror show.

This is how the nazis and Hugo Chavez came to power you know.

So many cannot find their way without direct directions: Program for Public Consultation 2015 Federal Budget Exercise

Mine:

my budget deficit for 2015: $64B

Percentage of long term Social Security deficit solved: 252.5%

 

[M14 Shooter]

No. The goal should be to bring the deficit below projected GDP growth, about 400 billion. The cuts in the deficits can be spread over 10 years. It took us about 10 years to get into this mess, so I think that is the appropriate time table to get us out. Also the current and projected growth in GDP will increase tax revenues. I think a 450 billion/yr cut plus 450billion/yr increase in revenues from tax is need.

Where, exactly do you think you can get +$450B/yr in revenues?
Lay our the income brackets and the tax rates.

Also, your idea leaves $600B in deficits.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Average Americans seem to put high priority on cutting the deficit, by both spending cuts and raising taxes, though not only on the 'rich' and not 'across the board cuts':

Program for Public Consultation

We are a recipe for disaster, knowing what needs be done, but no idea in how to do it so we don't take the brunt, when that's unavoidable... so we put it off till it becomes a horror show.

This is how the nazis and Hugo Chavez came to power you know.

So many cannot find their way without direct directions: Program for Public Consultation 2015 Federal Budget Exercise

Interesting.
It doesn't include entitlement spending in the deficit calculation and does not allow for cutting entitlements in order to help balance the budget. So, while interesting, the presumptions built into it render it invalid.

 

[Annie]

We are a recipe for disaster, knowing what needs be done, but no idea in how to do it so we don't take the brunt, when that's unavoidable... so we put it off till it becomes a horror show.

This is how the nazis and Hugo Chavez came to power you know.

So many cannot find their way without direct directions: Program for Public Consultation 2015 Federal Budget Exercise

Interesting.
It doesn't include entitlement spending in the deficit calculation and does not allow for cutting entitlements in order to help balance the budget. So, while interesting, the presumptions built into it render it invalid.

Oh, please explain that whopper.

 

[Big Fitz]

Of course. By small cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and across the board cuts in all other government spending, getting out Iraq, and Afghanistan, and increase Social Security Retirement Age we will have enough spending cuts. On revenue side, we should increase individual tax rates. For corporations, we should reduce rates and eliminate tax loopholes that encourage oversea investments.

Our time for small universal cuts has passed. Now we're looking at 20% universal cuts or higher if we're going to do this without targeting one area over another. But everone's Ox needs to be gored.

No. The goal should be to bring the deficit below projected GDP growth, about 400 billion. The cuts in the deficits can be spread over 10 years. It took us about 10 years to get into this mess, so I think that is the appropriate time table to get us out. Also the current and projected growth in GDP will increase tax revenues. I think a 450 billion/yr cut plus 450billion/yr increase in revenues from tax is need.

When's the last time we had a budget that low? Reagan? Bush 41?

 

[M14 Shooter]

So many cannot find their way without direct directions: Program for Public Consultation 2015 Federal Budget Exercise

Interesting.
It doesn't include entitlement spending in the deficit calculation and does not allow for cutting entitlements in order to help balance the budget. So, while interesting, the presumptions built into it render it invalid.

Oh, please explain that whopper.

Simple:
-It doesn't give you an opportunity to cut a dollar from entitlements, which represent 65% of total federal outlays.
-It presumes the only way to balance the budget is to raise taxes and cut discretionary spending
-It presumes that SocSec is sacrosanct and must be made sound, even though doing so will increase the deficit

None of these premises are sound; as the entire device is built on the premises, it, in and of itself, cannot be valid.

 

[Flopper]

No. The goal should be to bring the deficit below projected GDP growth, about 400 billion. The cuts in the deficits can be spread over 10 years. It took us about 10 years to get into this mess, so I think that is the appropriate time table to get us out. Also the current and projected growth in GDP will increase tax revenues. I think a 450 billion/yr cut plus 450billion/yr increase in revenues from tax is need.

Where, exactly do you think you can get +$450B/yr in revenues?
Lay our the income brackets and the tax rates.

Also, your idea leaves $600B in deficits.

By just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, the CBO projects a Deficit in 2014 of 533 billion down about a trillion dollars from 2011 and rising to 739 billion in 2020. If we got out of Afghanistan and Iraq this would cut another 150 billion/yr. The deficit is a very solvable problem. We just have to decide on a plan.

The CBO's baseline budget outlook has the United States posting a deficit of no less than $533 billion between now and 2021. The outlook looks like this:

2011 - $1.48 trillion deficit
2012 - $1.1 trillion deficit
2013 - $704 billion deficit
2014 - $533 billion deficit
2015 - $551 billion deficit
2016 - $659 billion deficit
2017 - $617 billion deficit
2018 - $610 billion deficit
2019 - $696 billion deficit
2020 - $739 billion deficit
2021 - $763 billion deficit

According to the CBO, the projections "are based on the assumption that tax and spending policies unfold as specified in current law. Consequently, they understate the budget deficits that would occur if many policies currently in place were continued, rather than allowed to expire as scheduled under current law."
CBO: $1.48 Trillion Deficit Expected For 2011

 

[dean12]

all the world looks against the America.