Looks like Tea Party was right about Obamacare. America owes them an apology

[williepete]

 

[TooTall]

Yet if you were to log on to healthcare.gov, you'd see plan after plan listed...Amazing that they're there if what you are saying were true.

Like most conservatives, you have a very casual relationship to the truth. Again, you should buy a mirror so you can debate yourself. You seem really confused.

It looks like 6 Democrat Senators who voted for Obamacare are bailing out. Does that 'delay for a year' ring a bell in your hollow head? Hint, Republican House bill sent to the Senate and returned without the delay.

--"Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare," by Burgess Everett and Seung Min: "Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is taking the strongest tack among Senate Democrats, writing legislation with Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) to delay for a year the individual mandate's enforcement mechanism - a $95 fine for anyone who doesn't enroll in health insurance by March 31. Manchin is even taking the full rollout and explanation of his legislation to an unusual venue for a Democrat: Bill O'Reilly's show [tonight] ... Democrats facing difficult reelection campaigns in 2014 - Sens. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina and Mark Begich of Alaska - came out on Wednesday evening in support of extending the open enrollment period of the law, as first proposed by Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, who is also up for reelection in 2014."

Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare - Burgess Everett and Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

Closing your business for remodeling is one thing.
Closing your business because you refuse to pay extortion is another.

Allow me to interpret your BS. It is remodeling if a Democrat Senate proposes a 1 year extension, and extortion if a Republican House does sends a bill to the Senate with a 1 ear extension.

I say it is because six Democrat Senators know they will not be reelected if they continue to support the train wreck called Obamacare?

 

[TooTall]

I think you're twisting the facts a bit. Insurers are not backing out of the exchanges. They either didn't apply or were not certified. Aetna and Unitedhealth have issued statements as to why they're not participating in some of the state run exchanges and their reasons have nothing to do with their faith in the US government. The primary reason why these insurers are not registering in all states is they have little or no presence in the individual healthcare market in those states. There is considerable cost for a health insurance company to induce a new product in a state, building networks, opening offices, and meeting state insurance regulations.

In my state over a dozen companies applied but only 5 were accepted by the state insurance commission. However those companies offer 34 different plans. In some states, there are as many as 36 different companies on the their exchange.

Point taken. I may have overstated my case on the reasons some insurance companies are not participating in some markets.

If I ran a health insurance company I would most certainly not publicly blame government policy since one does not bite the hand that feeds it.

Some other excuse would be given

Earlier you said that they were bailing out. Then (in the next post I think) you said that emergency rooms would be flooded with new policy holders.

What is your stance today?

I don't recall stating that emergency rooms would be flooded. I believe I stated that doctors office will be flooded, but you do make a good point.

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

 

[candycorn]

It looks like 6 Democrat Senators who voted for Obamacare are bailing out. Does that 'delay for a year' ring a bell in your hollow head? Hint, Republican House bill sent to the Senate and returned without the delay.

Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare - Burgess Everett and Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

Closing your business for remodeling is one thing.
Closing your business because you refuse to pay extortion is another.

Allow me to interpret your BS. It is remodeling if a Democrat Senate proposes a 1 year extension, and extortion if a Republican House does sends a bill to the Senate with a 1 ear extension.

I say it is because six Democrat Senators know they will not be reelected if they continue to support the train wreck called Obamacare?

Ahh, another opinion from you...I thought someone just passed gas.

The motives are no where near the same; most of the knuckle draggers you hang around with would even admit that.

 

[candycorn]

Point taken. I may have overstated my case on the reasons some insurance companies are not participating in some markets.

If I ran a health insurance company I would most certainly not publicly blame government policy since one does not bite the hand that feeds it.

Some other excuse would be given

Earlier you said that they were bailing out. Then (in the next post I think) you said that emergency rooms would be flooded with new policy holders.

What is your stance today?

I don't recall stating that emergency rooms would be flooded. I believe I stated that doctors office will be flooded, but you do make a good point.

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Okay so which is it?

Will they not be able to buy insurance for, as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out or will they be able to buy insurance, as you're saying now, that the insurance companies will have "30 million new insured"?

Again, if you ask me nicely, I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself.

 

[TooTall]

Closing your business for remodeling is one thing.
Closing your business because you refuse to pay extortion is another.

Allow me to interpret your BS. It is remodeling if a Democrat Senate proposes a 1 year extension, and extortion if a Republican House does sends a bill to the Senate with a 1 ear extension.

I say it is because six Democrat Senators know they will not be reelected if they continue to support the train wreck called Obamacare?

Ahh, another opinion from you...I thought someone just passed gas.

The motives are no where near the same; most of the knuckle draggers you hang around with would even admit that.

--"Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare," by Burgess Everett and Seung Min: "Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is taking the strongest tack among Senate Democrats, writing legislation with Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) to delay for a year the individual mandate's enforcement mechanism - a $95 fine for anyone who doesn't enroll in health insurance by March 31. Manchin is even taking the full rollout and explanation of his legislation to an unusual venue for a Democrat: Bill O'Reilly's show [tonight] ... Democrats facing difficult reelection campaigns in 2014 - Sens. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina and Mark Begich of Alaska - came out on Wednesday evening in support of extending the open enrollment period of the law, as first proposed by Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, who is also up for reelection in 2014."

Take it up with the knuckle draggers at Politico since they share my opinion. BTW, do you only deal in insults, or do you have an opinion on why these Democrats would change their minds. After all, they voted for this nonsense.

 

[TooTall]

Earlier you said that they were bailing out. Then (in the next post I think) you said that emergency rooms would be flooded with new policy holders.

What is your stance today?

I don't recall stating that emergency rooms would be flooded. I believe I stated that doctors office will be flooded, but you do make a good point.

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Okay so which is it?

Will they not be able to buy insurance for, as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out or will they be able to buy insurance, as you're saying now, that the insurance companies will have "30 million new insured"?

Again, if you ask me nicely, I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself.

I stated: "Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama." and a disingenuous asshole that you are came up with "as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out."

Your talking points are rather amusing, but I can't be bothered with being misquoted so the nicest thing I can say in parting is fuck off bitch.

 

[Flopper]

It is not my opinion that a number of insurance companies are backing out after learning about the hazards of believing a government scam. It is a fact!

It is not my opinion that the insurance companies are listening to their accountants, lawyers, board members, etc. and that is the reason they are limiting their participation in the government exchanges. It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that MOST of those NEW policy holders premiums will be paid by the federal government and they will get the money by increasing the taxes and premiums from those who already have policies. It is a fact.

Look in the mirror if you want to see a pile of shit.

I think you're twisting the facts a bit. Insurers are not backing out of the exchanges. They either didn't apply or were not certified. Aetna and Unitedhealth have issued statements as to why they're not participating in some of the state run exchanges and their reasons have nothing to do with their faith in the US government. The primary reason why these insurers are not registering in all states is they have little or no presence in the individual healthcare market in those states. There is considerable cost for a health insurance company to induce a new product in a state, building networks, opening offices, and meeting state insurance regulations.

In my state over a dozen companies applied but only 5 were accepted by the state insurance commission. However those companies offer 34 different plans. In some states, there are as many as 36 different companies on the their exchange.

Obamacare Exchange Down To Two Insurance Providers
Major Health Insurance Companies Leave Obamacare Exchanges | Western Free Press

North Carolina can't be down to two providers on the exchange because they never had more than two. North Carolina has very few companies selling individual insurance in the state. I could only find 4.

 

[Flopper]

I don't recall stating that emergency rooms would be flooded. I believe I stated that doctors office will be flooded, but you do make a good point.

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Okay so which is it?

Will they not be able to buy insurance for, as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out or will they be able to buy insurance, as you're saying now, that the insurance companies will have "30 million new insured"?

Again, if you ask me nicely, I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself.

I stated: "Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama." and a disingenuous asshole that you are came up with "as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out."

Your talking points are rather amusing, but I can't be bothered with being misquoted so the nicest thing I can say in parting is fuck off bitch.

The law, as enacted, is 974 pages long, not 1500, 2000, or 2500. I realize it may help your argument but the fact is laws just don't increase in size once they are enacted.

To put things in perspective the stimulus bill was 1,100 pages. The climate bill was 1,200 pages. Bill Clinton's 1993 health care plan was famously 1,342 pages long. Budget bills can run even longer: In 2007, President Bush's ran to 1,482 pages. Legislation is getting longer, but that's a good thing. Shorter legislation invariable leads to longer more complex regulations as regulators try to guess what congress intended.


Is 'Obamacare' really that long? - Leader-Telegram: Tom Giffey

Is 1,000 pages long for a piece of legislation?

 

[Flopper]

If your're really interested in getting some cheap insurance so you will be legal next year, you should look at www.ehealthinsurance.com You can purchase a 2013 plan that should meet your legal requirements for insurance for next year. Eventually you'll have to upgrade to one of the certified plans.

I looked at several states. It look like a 30 year old male nonsmoker can get a policy as low as $70 to $95. The deductible is about $10,000, $12,600 maximum out of pocket expense, and you pay 40% of the medical cost after you pay the deductible. You need to be pretty healthy so you can pass a physical and the healthcare screening form which can be up to 18 pages.

 

[TooTall]

Okay so which is it?

Will they not be able to buy insurance for, as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out or will they be able to buy insurance, as you're saying now, that the insurance companies will have "30 million new insured"?

Again, if you ask me nicely, I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself.

I stated: "Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama." and a disingenuous asshole that you are came up with "as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out."

Your talking points are rather amusing, but I can't be bothered with being misquoted so the nicest thing I can say in parting is fuck off bitch.

The law, as enacted, is 974 pages long, not 1500, 2000, or 2500. I realize it may help your argument but the fact is laws just don't increase in size once they are enacted.

To put things in perspective the stimulus bill was 1,100 pages. The climate bill was 1,200 pages. Bill Clinton's 1993 health care plan was famously 1,342 pages long. Budget bills can run even longer: In 2007, President Bush's ran to 1,482 pages. Legislation is getting longer, but that's a good thing. Shorter legislation invariable leads to longer more complex regulations as regulators try to guess what congress intended.


Is 'Obamacare' really that long? - Leader-Telegram: Tom Giffey

Is 1,000 pages long for a piece of legislation?

Perhaps it should have been 2500 pages using your reasoning. Then some of this would have not have been needed.

Along with partisan sniping, Washington, D.C. sure creates a lot of paper. And the Affordable Care Act is really adding to the pile. The nearly 11,000 pages of regulations for this one law alone would reach three feet high if you made the mistake of printing it.

How many pages of regulations are in the Affordable Care Act?

And, the Washington post fact checker added to that number if you are interested, which I am reasonably sure you aren't.
Link here:
How many pages of regulations for ?Obamacare?? - The Washington Post

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986. And they use the ERs for everything.

 

[depotoo]

I think you're twisting the facts a bit. Insurers are not backing out of the exchanges. They either didn't apply or were not certified. Aetna and Unitedhealth have issued statements as to why they're not participating in some of the state run exchanges and their reasons have nothing to do with their faith in the US government. The primary reason why these insurers are not registering in all states is they have little or no presence in the individual healthcare market in those states. There is considerable cost for a health insurance company to induce a new product in a state, building networks, opening offices, and meeting state insurance regulations.

In my state over a dozen companies applied but only 5 were accepted by the state insurance commission. However those companies offer 34 different plans. In some states, there are as many as 36 different companies on the their exchange.

Obamacare Exchange Down To Two Insurance Providers
Major Health Insurance Companies Leave Obamacare Exchanges | Western Free Press

North Carolina can't be down to two providers on the exchange because they never had more than two. North Carolina has very few companies selling individual insurance in the state. I could only find 4.

FirstCarolina, a wholly owned subsidiary of FirstHealth of the Carolinas, announced Thursday afternoon it had alerted the North Carolina Department of Insurance of its intention to reverse course on its plan to sell federally approved policies on the exchange...

FirstCarolina had received federal certification to offer 16 plans for sale that meet federal minimum requirements. It was the first of the three insurers to release its premium plans and prices.

Two insurers pull out of Georgia health exchange | Online Athens
Aetna pulls out of New Jersey's Obamacare exchange - Sep. 13, 2013
Aetna pulls health plans from Maryland insurance exchange - Baltimore Sun
What Aetna's move to pull insurance plans from Maryland exchange means - Baltimore Business Journal
3 sizable insurance providers pull out of California health insurance exchange | All California Health Insurance
Aetna Pulls Out Of Connecticut?s Insurance Exchange « CBS Connecticut
Aetna Pulls Health Plans From Md. Insurance Exchange - Top News - InsuranceNewsNet.com
Regence BlueCross BlueShield Pulls out of Oregon?s Insurance Exchange | The Lund Report
Humana Exits Utah Health Insurance Exchange

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Tea Party, a stain on America's narrative, owes the GOP and the American people a heartfelt apology and askance for repentance.

 

[TooTall]

[

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986. And they use the ERs for everything.

If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.

 

[Flopper]

I stated: "Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama." and a disingenuous asshole that you are came up with "as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out."

Your talking points are rather amusing, but I can't be bothered with being misquoted so the nicest thing I can say in parting is fuck off bitch.

The law, as enacted, is 974 pages long, not 1500, 2000, or 2500. I realize it may help your argument but the fact is laws just don't increase in size once they are enacted.

To put things in perspective the stimulus bill was 1,100 pages. The climate bill was 1,200 pages. Bill Clinton's 1993 health care plan was famously 1,342 pages long. Budget bills can run even longer: In 2007, President Bush's ran to 1,482 pages. Legislation is getting longer, but that's a good thing. Shorter legislation invariable leads to longer more complex regulations as regulators try to guess what congress intended.


Is 'Obamacare' really that long? - Leader-Telegram: Tom Giffey

Is 1,000 pages long for a piece of legislation?

Perhaps it should have been 2500 pages using your reasoning. Then some of this would have not have been needed.

Along with partisan sniping, Washington, D.C. sure creates a lot of paper. And the Affordable Care Act is really adding to the pile. The nearly 11,000 pages of regulations for this one law alone would reach three feet high if you made the mistake of printing it.

How many pages of regulations are in the Affordable Care Act?

And, the Washington post fact checker added to that number if you are interested, which I am reasonably sure you aren't.
Link here:
How many pages of regulations for ?Obamacare?? - The Washington Post

Maybe the law should have been 2500 pages but it's not. Blatant exaggeration of the facts does not strengthen your argument but rather weakens it.

We have such voluminous regs because congress leaves it up to regulators to supply the details needed to implement the laws. For the most part, this is unavoidable but not always.

The healthcare regulations pales in comparison to IRS or EPA regs.

 

[Flopper]

[

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
Why go to the drug store and buy a bandaid for a small cut when the are free at the emergency room?

Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986. And they use the ERs for everything.

If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.

The purpose of the ER is to treat and stabilize acute illness and accidents. ER services should be a very small part of healthcare. Most healthcare services should be delivered in doctor's offices and clinics but people with health problems don't go to the doctor if they can't pay so they end up the ER, the most expensive place to get treatment.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986. And they use the ERs for everything.

If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.

What do you mean "if true?" There is no question EMTALA gives everyone free treatment at ERs. They'll send you a bill but the law won't force you to pay it. Been like that for near 30 years, you idiot.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986. And they use the ERs for everything.

If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.

The purpose of the ER is to treat and stabilize acute illness and accidents. ER services should be a very small part of healthcare. Most healthcare services should be delivered in doctor's offices and clinics but people with health problems don't go to the doctor if they can't pay so they end up the ER, the most expensive place to get treatment.

Yup - poor and illegals use ERs for everything. EMTALA is more stupidity from congress.

 

[Flopper]

If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.

The purpose of the ER is to treat and stabilize acute illness and accidents. ER services should be a very small part of healthcare. Most healthcare services should be delivered in doctor's offices and clinics but people with health problems don't go to the doctor if they can't pay so they end up the ER, the most expensive place to get treatment.

Yup - poor and illegals use ERs for everything. EMTALA is more stupidity from congress.

Far from it. The EMTALA was passed in response to patient dumping which became common in the 1980's. Over 85% of ER patient transfers were for financial reasons. Simply not having proof of insurance on your person when you were wheeled into an ER could send you across town to a county hospital. The general rule today is to delivery an emergency to the nearest ER. That was not necessarily the case prior to EMTALA.