Lloyd Hart, master occupier talks about Occupy movement's demands on radio

[CT9]

Just as humanity learned to live without kings and slave masters, OWS and related movements around the globe are pointing a way to a world where small numbers of shareholders and their board of directors don't decide what and where goods and services that all consumers depend on will be produced.

"The US can do better than corporate capitalism."

For far too long the rich have prevented debate of our economic system.
It is past time to reorganize our producing units and go beyond a capitalist system that no longer serves the needs of the majority.

So you believe that the losers who can't even find a job will be better at manufacturing? Or do you simply want to turn it all over to the Government like a good little commie?

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Too bad you are the first one I've seen say that...

 

[CT9]

So you believe that the losers who can't even find a job will be better at manufacturing? Or do you simply want to turn it all over to the Government like a good little commie?

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

 

[georgephillip]

I am not simple minded at all. But i know communism when I see it and i will fight it with my last breath.

Corporations are committed to one share one vote.
Does that represent a bigger threat to democracy than communism?

 

[Katzndogz]

Last I looked, Germans worked. Which is one of the main differences the Germans have with the Greeks. The Greeks, like Americans want to be paid for doing nothing.

 

[Si modo]

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

 

[georgephillip]

So you believe that the losers who can't even find a job will be better at manufacturing? Or do you simply want to turn it all over to the Government like a good little commie?

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

What property are German workers sitting on the boards of the corporations they work for seizing?

Between 2001 and 2010 US fascists seized millions of middle class jobs and gave them to China.
Only one state in history has lost more jobs in a single decade.
The USSR.
We are swirling the same drain.

 

[Si modo]

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

What property are German workers sitting on the boards of the corporations they work for seizing?

Between 2001 and 2010 US fascists seized millions of middle class jobs and gave them to China.
Only one state in history has lost more jobs in a single decade.
The USSR.
We are swirling the same drain.

Who are these American fascists?

I agree, YOU are swirling the same drain as the Soviets. The difference is, you just don't know it. Useful Idiots don't.

 

[The T]

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

After all? Whom is more vested? The ones invested PAYING the paychecks...or the ones demanding it?

Seems to me the Investors have the final say over unions...If the Investors didn't exist? Unions would wither and DIE on the vine...

 

[SFC Ollie]

Actually if you dig into it and think about it, many of the workers are part owners of the corporations. If they have a 401K and it carries any company stock........ Surprisingly (not) most people have no clue what their 401K is invested in......

 

[Si modo]

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

After all? Whom is more vested? The ones invested PAYING the paychecks...or the ones demanding it?

Seems to me the Investors have the final say over unions...If the Investors didn't exist? Unions would wither and DIE on the vine...

With the authoritarian desires of the OWS (which they deny - hysterical), THEY decide who will have stakes FOR you.

 

[georgephillip]

So you believe that the losers who can't even find a job will be better at manufacturing? Or do you simply want to turn it all over to the Government like a good little commie?

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Too bad you are the first one I've seen say that...

There are no stone tablets decreeing that only the richest shareholders and their boards of directors are qualified to make key decisions about what, how and where to produce and most importantly what to do with the profits.

If workers voted on these goals, it's not likely they would cast their ballots in favor of reducing their jobs and wages. I think OWS gets that part better than most of the 99%.

 

[Si modo]

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Too bad you are the first one I've seen say that...

There are no stone tablets decreeing that only the richest shareholders and their boards of directors are qualified to make key decisions about what, how and where to produce and most importantly what to do with the profits.


....

Of course! Don't have the owners decide.

Take that free will and right to self-realization away!


That's the authoritarian and fascist way.

Nationalize!

 

[CT9]

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

What property are German workers sitting on the boards of the corporations they work for seizing?

Between 2001 and 2010 US fascists seized millions of middle class jobs and gave them to China.
Only one state in history has lost more jobs in a single decade.
The USSR.
We are swirling the same drain.

Who are these American fascists?

I agree, YOU are swirling the same drain as the Soviets. The difference is, you just don't know it. Useful Idiots don't.

lol you aren't saying anything, all you are doing is ad hominem attacks...

 

[CT9]

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

So you are calling Germans facists then because that is the system they have in place... is putting one and one together?

While I don't know how I feel about this I would have to look more into German unions... a much bigger divide would have to be put up between unions involvement in politics if that route were to be considered.

Look I'd like to cut the corporate taxes so that we can keep our businesses here, but this issue isn't one of not working, it is about keeping jobs here and keeping America competitive. This is one solution to possibly be looked at. I think the Union would have to invest in some kind of shares, don't most? I never been in a Union, but it is not fascism, this system here. You don't know enough about the situation to speak on it, the difference between the wise and the ignorant is they don't speak on what they don't know.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why do you believe US corporations are the only viable model?

In the mid-70s the richest 1% of Germans earned about 11% of total German income every year. The richest 1% in this country earned about 8% of aggregate US income at that time. Today the US elites earn nearly 25% of total US income while their economic peers in Germany still take home the same 11%.

That occurred because German unions had (and still have) voting members sitting on their corporations' Boards of Directors. When German capitalists tried to outsource their factories to China, German workers said, "No way, Adolph."

Reforms like that one could work here.
OWS knows that much.

Too bad you are the first one I've seen say that...

There are no stone tablets decreeing that only the richest shareholders and their boards of directors are qualified to make key decisions about what, how and where to produce and most importantly what to do with the profits.

If workers voted on these goals, it's not likely they would cast their ballots in favor of reducing their jobs and wages. I think OWS gets that part better than most of the 99%.

Isn't that what the Big unions did? That's why a guy who sweeps a floor for GM gets $23 an hour........ Which is why Mr Average American cannot afford a new car but every 10 years. If they ever get a new car.

 

[georgephillip]

Last I looked, Germans worked. Which is one of the main differences the Germans have with the Greeks. The Greeks, like Americans want to be paid for doing nothing.

Here's a better explanation for Germany's rise from the ashes of WWII:

"One overlooked key to the country’s economic dynamism is its strong public banking system, which focuses on serving the public interest rather than on maximizing private profits.

"After the Second World War, it was the publicly-owned Landesbanks that helped family-run provincial companies get a foothold in world markets. As Peter Dorman describes the Landesbanks in a July 2011 blog:

"They are publicly owned entities that rest on top of a pyramid of thousands of municipally owned savings banks.

"If you add in the specialized publicly owned real estate lenders, about half the total assets of the German banking system are in the public sector. (Another substantial chunk is in cooperative savings banks.)

"They are key tools of German industrial policy, specializing in loans to the Mittelstand, the small-to-medium size businesses that are at the core of that country’s export engine. Because of the landesbanken, small firms in Germany have as much access to capital as large firms; there are no economies of scale in finance. This also means that workers in the small business sector earn the same wages as those in big corporations, have the same skills and training, and are just as productive. [Emphasis added.]

"The Landesbanks function as 'universal banks' operating in all sectors of the financial services market. All are controlled by state governments and operate as central administrators for the municipally-owned savings banks, or Sparkassen, in their area."

SHEARED BY THE SHORTS: HOW SPECULATORS FLEECE INVESTORS

In 1919 the state of North Dakota got free of Wall Street by doing business as the State Bank of North Dakota. Currently it has the lowest unemployment numbers in the country and has produced a budget surplus every year since 2008.

Wall Street's obsession on private profits over public infrastructure is one problem OWS has been clear about.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So Germans are essentially fascists then?

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

So you are calling Germans facists then because that is the system they have in place... is putting one and one together?

While I don't know how I feel about this I would have to look more into German unions... a much bigger divide would have to be put up between unions involvement in politics if that route were to be considered.

Look I'd like to cut the corporate taxes so that we can keep our businesses here, but this issue isn't one of not working, it is about keeping jobs here and keeping America competitive. This is one solution to possibly be looked at. I think the Union would have to invest in some kind of shares, don't most? I never been in a Union, but it is not fascism, this system here. You don't know enough about the situation to speak on it, the difference between the wise and the ignorant is they don't speak on what they don't know.

I don't know about German Unions that much but according to my son (I have two of them living in Germany) If two people apply for a job and they are both qualified, but one is single and the other married, the married guy gets the job. Same holds true for layoffs, the single guy goes first. It's called socialism.........

 

[CT9]

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

After all? Whom is more vested? The ones invested PAYING the paychecks...or the ones demanding it?

Seems to me the Investors have the final say over unions...If the Investors didn't exist? Unions would wither and DIE on the vine...

With the authoritarian desires of the OWS (which they deny - hysterical), THEY decide who will have stakes FOR you.

lol I haven't been to a rally and I doubt you have either, but I don't hear calls for an authoritarian regime. Now if this is where we end up because of them, I can see that. The French revolution didn't start out in the search of an authoritarian regime however that is where it went because the population allowed it, and that is what we can not allow.

I was dismissive of these people at first too. I though they were idiots, I thought they were clueless communist and the sort. However, I do not think that is the case. Their is the obvious old hippies and crazy leftist, but their is a lot of other people there. Too many to simply write off. Pundits and populist alike always talked about how where was the anger at the banks and government for the bailouts and getting us into this mess. These people I have a feeling are in line with a lot of the right in what they want. All it is, is elite manipulation like what goes on in third world countries can't you see that? Fox News, Msnbc, Cnn, either on purpose or out of the target market they have created do nothing more than control and manipulate and constantly pit people against each other rather than with each other.

I agree they have a lot of idiots, but I think the reason they have such a hard time getting organized is because of the diversity in thought.

 

[CT9]

How you get to that is a mystery.

But, I will reiterate: If someone seizes the legal property of another to give it to someone else who has no legal claim to it, then they are fascists.

Such as money for home mortgages and student loans, and now giving union workers more voice than the actual stockholders.

So you are calling Germans facists then because that is the system they have in place... is putting one and one together?

While I don't know how I feel about this I would have to look more into German unions... a much bigger divide would have to be put up between unions involvement in politics if that route were to be considered.

Look I'd like to cut the corporate taxes so that we can keep our businesses here, but this issue isn't one of not working, it is about keeping jobs here and keeping America competitive. This is one solution to possibly be looked at. I think the Union would have to invest in some kind of shares, don't most? I never been in a Union, but it is not fascism, this system here. You don't know enough about the situation to speak on it, the difference between the wise and the ignorant is they don't speak on what they don't know.

I don't know about German Unions that much but according to my son (I have two of them living in Germany) If two people apply for a job and they are both qualified, but one is single and the other married, the married guy gets the job. Same holds true for layoffs, the single guy goes first. It's called socialism.........

I know Germany is socialist, didn't know about those rules though pretty crazy. However, that's what is good about today. I'm not saying adopt these policies, but we should at least listen and research. All I know is we have to find a solution to the loss of manufacturing in this country or its going to be devastating. We don't have to take all of how another ocuntry does but put little variation together. That's why I don't dismiss an idea like this right away. I do think, like an American, just judging off the face of it that it would need a balance of power and the unions couldn't simply override all moves. They already try doing this when companies move within in the country like Boeing. However, I think we are getting off topic because these OWS people would never work in manufacturing lol.

 

[georgephillip]

Just seize the property of others and give it to whom you think deserves it.

Fascist.

What property are German workers sitting on the boards of the corporations they work for seizing?

Between 2001 and 2010 US fascists seized millions of middle class jobs and gave them to China.
Only one state in history has lost more jobs in a single decade.
The USSR.
We are swirling the same drain.

Who are these American fascists?

I agree, YOU are swirling the same drain as the Soviets. The difference is, you just don't know it. Useful Idiots don't.

Fascists like Phil Gramm and Bill Clinton with their useful corporate idiots accelerated the decline in the late 90s. George W and Obama have continued the trend. 99% of Americans are swirling the same drain as the Soviets. Maybe you're too blind to notice how capitalism has always reproduced poverty as the other side of profits for a relative few.

That doesn't mean you won't be one of its victims.