CDZ Lincoln: Hero or Villain?

[gipper]

Best drawing ever
View attachment 354789

Unfortunately Booth was too late. Had Lincoln been assassinated in 1861, the nation would have been saved the horrors of war and the destruction of the rule of law.

 

[TNHarley]

Best drawing ever
View attachment 354789

Unfortunately Booth was too late. Had Lincoln been assassinated in 1861, the nation would have been saved the horrors of war and the destruction of the rule of law.

Very true. But then again, better late than never

 

[gipper]

Best drawing ever
View attachment 354789

Unfortunately Booth was too late. Had Lincoln been assassinated in 1861, the nation would have been saved the horrors of war and the destruction of the rule of law.

Very true. But then again, better late than never

Agreed.

Had Dishonest Abe lived and followed through with his plan to deport all blacks, imagine the numbers who would have died in transit. It likely would have been akin to the Trail of Tears or Bataan Death March, but on a much larger scale.

 

[Indeependent]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

 

[Indeependent]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

Lincoln was wrong and the South was right.

The issues of secession could have been solved without war. It may have taken some time and the filthy ass greedy northern Liberal Republicans may have had to compromise more than they wanted to but the nation could have been saved without a massive war.

That asshole Lincoln broke the truce at Ft Sumter to instigate war and then the sonofabitch declared that he was going to raise and army of 75,000 to kill Americans and that was the real start of the war.

Four of the states that joined the Confederacy first voted in their legislatures not to secede with South Carolina. They then changed their minds when the mad man Lincoln decided to kill Americans to solve a political issue.

Yea, Lincoln was pretty much an asshole.

So would you rather we be invaded by England or France?

 

[gipper]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

That’s nonsensical. Because we don’t live in Dishonest Abe’s time, we can’t criticize his tyrannical, murderous, and treasonous actions. WRONG!

Would you say this about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao too?

 

[Indeependent]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

That’s nonsensical. Because we don’t live in Dishonest Abe’s time, we can’t criticize his tyrannical, murderous, and treasonous actions. WRONG!

Would you say this about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao too?

Hitler was not out to save a nation as much to eradicate the rest of the world and he made no bones about it in his speeches.
Lincoln knew the 2 Empires across the ocean were salivating for conquest.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He also felt the survival of the nation depended on getting rid of the negro presence in the US. He was right...

The issue of slavery is used as an excuse of the war because it lends some kind of moral justification. If you ask any uneducated American why the war was fought they will revert to what they were taught in Jr High School and say "to free the slaves". That is a lie.

The great debates over slavery prior to the war was no more than political posturing.

It had to do with political power by the parties.

Slavery was legal on the Federal level in the US prior to the war, during the war and for almost a year after the war. However, it was up to the states if they wanted to do it or not.

The issue was really over political power in the expansion western states. If a state was to be admitted slave then it was going to be dominated by the Democrats. If it was to be admitted free then it would be dominated by the Republicans.

The Southern Democrats opposed any new state to be admitted free because it would give more power to the already majority northern Republicans.

It is similar to the discussion nowadays to admit DC and or Puerto Rico as a state because it will give more power in Congress to the Democrats.

The South did not not want the Republicans to have more power because there was a history of the Northerners using the power of the Federal government to steal money from export cash rich Democrat South.

So you are saying that it is okay to have black people as slaves? Need some clarification here please...

Those rich Southern White Democrats, were they getting rich at the cost of the labor of slaves?

Then reread what was written. That is exactly what the poster is saying. Read it twice or have an adult read it to you if you need further clarification.

Mighty white of you to think owning black people as slaves is okay...

 

[Vastator]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He also felt the survival of the nation depended on getting rid of the negro presence in the US. He was right...

The issue of slavery is used as an excuse of the war because it lends some kind of moral justification. If you ask any uneducated American why the war was fought they will revert to what they were taught in Jr High School and say "to free the slaves". That is a lie.

The great debates over slavery prior to the war was no more than political posturing.

It had to do with political power by the parties.

Slavery was legal on the Federal level in the US prior to the war, during the war and for almost a year after the war. However, it was up to the states if they wanted to do it or not.

The issue was really over political power in the expansion western states. If a state was to be admitted slave then it was going to be dominated by the Democrats. If it was to be admitted free then it would be dominated by the Republicans.

The Southern Democrats opposed any new state to be admitted free because it would give more power to the already majority northern Republicans.

It is similar to the discussion nowadays to admit DC and or Puerto Rico as a state because it will give more power in Congress to the Democrats.

The South did not not want the Republicans to have more power because there was a history of the Northerners using the power of the Federal government to steal money from export cash rich Democrat South.

So you are saying that it is okay to have black people as slaves? Need some clarification here please...

Those rich Southern White Democrats, were they getting rich at the cost of the labor of slaves?

Then reread what was written. That is exactly what the poster is saying. Read it twice or have an adult read it to you if you need further clarification.

Mighty white of you to think owning black people as slaves is okay...

Where was that said? A quote will be fine...

 

[gipper]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

That’s nonsensical. Because we don’t live in Dishonest Abe’s time, we can’t criticize his tyrannical, murderous, and treasonous actions. WRONG!

Would you say this about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao too?

Hitler was not out to save a nation as much to eradicate the rest of the world and he made no bones about it in his speeches.
Lincoln knew the 2 Empires across the ocean were salivating for conquest.

That too is absurd. First, Hitler only intended to expand to lands adjacent to Germany. He never planned to “eradicate the rest of the world.” Why have you accepted propaganda?

Secondly, if France and Britain wanted to conquer the US, they could have done so any time leading up to the civil war. The US had almost no standing army and a tiny navy prior to the war. Thirdly, had the nation separated peacefully, this wouldn’t have made the task of conquering any easier for France and GB.

You have everything wrong.

 

[Indeependent]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

That’s nonsensical. Because we don’t live in Dishonest Abe’s time, we can’t criticize his tyrannical, murderous, and treasonous actions. WRONG!

Would you say this about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao too?

Hitler was not out to save a nation as much to eradicate the rest of the world and he made no bones about it in his speeches.
Lincoln knew the 2 Empires across the ocean were salivating for conquest.

That too is absurd. First, Hitler only intended to expand to lands adjacent to Germany. He never planned to “eradicate the rest of the world.” Why have you accepted propaganda?

Secondly, if France and Britain wanted to conquer the US, they could have done so any time leading up to the civil war. The US had almost no standing army and a tiny navy prior to the war. Thirdly, had the nation separated peacefully, this wouldn’t have made the task of conquering any easier for France and GB.

You have everything wrong.

Is that why Hitler went to war with Russia?

I can't read Lincoln's mind; I can only surmise from I have read.

 

[gipper]

Hero...Lincoln knew a divided US would invite an invasion by Britain and/or France.

You don't save a nation by killing almost a million people.

The fucker started a shooting war by breaking the truce at Ft Sumter and many Americans died in his dirty war.

I guess you haven't read any biographies of Lincoln; he felt the survival of the nation was worth the sacrifice and he was right.

He can feel any way he wants, but that doesn’t make it right.

Article Three of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Dishonest Abe was a criminal. The penalty for treason is death. Too bad he wasn’t hung in 1861.

And thankfully neither one of us lived back then without electricity and indoor plumbing because we wouldn't be such big shots as we are today.

That’s nonsensical. Because we don’t live in Dishonest Abe’s time, we can’t criticize his tyrannical, murderous, and treasonous actions. WRONG!

Would you say this about Hitler, Stalin, and Mao too?

Hitler was not out to save a nation as much to eradicate the rest of the world and he made no bones about it in his speeches.
Lincoln knew the 2 Empires across the ocean were salivating for conquest.

That too is absurd. First, Hitler only intended to expand to lands adjacent to Germany. He never planned to “eradicate the rest of the world.” Why have you accepted propaganda?

Secondly, if France and Britain wanted to conquer the US, they could have done so any time leading up to the civil war. The US had almost no standing army and a tiny navy prior to the war. Thirdly, had the nation separated peacefully, this wouldn’t have made the task of conquering any easier for France and GB.

You have everything wrong.

Is that why Hitler went to war with Russia?

I can't read Lincoln's mind; I can only surmise from I have read.

That’s exactly why Hitler went to war with the USSR. Look up Generalplan Ost.

Read his mind...LOL. No need to read his mind, for logical thinking people. You might try analyzing actions. It works way better.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Lincoln: Hero or Villain

Let’s Debate.

For his time.. he was a hero.
You cannot apply today's standards on people 140 years ago.
He was not perfect, he did things that were downright unAmerican... but also did things that saved the union and changed America for the good.

 

[Hellbilly]

Lincoln was the original Ditto Head, that's for sure. Similar to modern conservatives like Jesse Helms ,Strom Thurmond and Ronald Reagan, he was against Slavery in all its forms.

In 1858, Lincoln expressed his opposition to racial equality and asserted the superiority of white people.

FACT CHECK: Did Abraham Lincoln Express Opposition to Racial Equality?

An authentic quotation from Lincoln has attracted renewed attention, along with some commentary that over-simplifies his views on race.

www.snopes.com

He was a white supremacist.

 

[gipper]

Lincoln: Hero or Villain

Let’s Debate.

For his time.. he was a hero.
You cannot apply today's standards on people 140 years ago.
He was not perfect, he did things that were downright unAmerican... but also did things that saved the union and changed America for the good.

LOL. He was NOT a hero for his time. He was hated almost as much in the north, as he was in the south.

 

[Polishprince]

Lincoln was the original Ditto Head, that's for sure. Similar to modern conservatives like Jesse Helms ,Strom Thurmond and Ronald Reagan, he was against Slavery in all its forms.

In 1858, Lincoln expressed his opposition to racial equality and asserted the superiority of white people.

FACT CHECK: Did Abraham Lincoln Express Opposition to Racial Equality?

An authentic quotation from Lincoln has attracted renewed attention, along with some commentary that over-simplifies his views on race.

www.snopes.com

He was a white supremacist.

Whether or not Honest Abe was a white supremacist or not, I think we can still say with confidence that he was 100% against slavery and never owned slaves. Very much like other Republicans of the past like Helms, Thurmond and Reagan.

BTW, the latter day Republicans were advocates of racial equality, apparently unlike Lincoln (who Obama lauded as one his own kind).

Sen. Helms was one of the biggest advocates to get HW Bush to break the color line and appoint Clarence Thomas to be the Jackie Robinson of the Supreme court.
Sen. Thurmond was a tremendous Baby's Daddy to his African American daughter , paying for her education at the Fantastic South Carolina State University.

 

[gipper]

Lincoln was the original Ditto Head, that's for sure. Similar to modern conservatives like Jesse Helms ,Strom Thurmond and Ronald Reagan, he was against Slavery in all its forms.

In 1858, Lincoln expressed his opposition to racial equality and asserted the superiority of white people.

FACT CHECK: Did Abraham Lincoln Express Opposition to Racial Equality?

An authentic quotation from Lincoln has attracted renewed attention, along with some commentary that over-simplifies his views on race.

www.snopes.com

He was a white supremacist.

Whether or not Honest Abe was a white supremacist or not, I think we can still say with confidence that he was 100% against slavery and never owned slaves. Very much like other Republicans of the past like Helms, Thurmond and Reagan.

BTW, the latter day Republicans were advocates of racial equality, apparently unlike Lincoln (who Obama lauded as one his own kind).

Sen. Helms was one of the biggest advocates to get HW Bush to break the color line and appoint Clarence Thomas to be the Jackie Robinson of the Supreme court.
Sen. Thurmond was a tremendous Baby's Daddy to his African American daughter , paying for her education at the Fantastic South Carolina State University.

He was not 100% against slavery, for God’s sake. He made this abundantly clear in his first inaugural, where he offered the South slavery forever if they wouldn’t secede.

 

[Syriusly]

Lincoln: Hero or Villain

Let’s Debate.

How about this...President Lincoln was a man, all men are flawed. You especially.. President Lincoln tried to be a good man by having all men be equal, freeing them from the tyranny of the Southern White Democrats. you on the other hand, want to destroy what President Lincoln tried to do..

I agree with you Lincoln was right to bring down the southern rebellion and the traitorous south. The slave power needed to be annihilated from the face of the earth.

Honest Abe didn't want to wage a war of annihilation against the South at all. He wanted to reconcile. Modern liberals feel that Lincoln was wrong because he didn't "finish the job" allowing the rebels to surrender.

Which 'modern rebels' are those? I have never heard of anyone- right or left- make that argument. Frankly the only ones who made that argument were members of Lincoln's own party in 1865.

 

[Syriusly]

Lincoln- hero.
On balance.

Which is why Americans always rank Lincoln as one of America's top 3 President's. I disagree with many things that Lincoln did to preserve the Union, but agree with him on preserving the Union.

 

[Polishprince]

Which 'modern rebels' are those? I have never heard of anyone- right or left- make that argument. Frankly the only ones who made that argument were members of Lincoln's own party in 1865.

Liberals have been mad for 50 years that the Republicans decided to compete with them for southern votes beginning in the 1960's and have called for Virtual Genocide of southerners since. The attacks on southern religion have been ongoing for generations.