Liberalism: Can It Survive?

[Chris]

The conservatives are wrong on every issue except the one they refuse to stand up for.....overspending. Bush has increased federal spending by the greatest amount since WWII by borrowing money from the Chinese. This is a MUCH GREATER security issue than a bunch of guys in a cave in Pakistan with no army, no navy, and no air force. The Republican party has deeply hurt America. I hope we can survive, but I have my doubts.

 

[midcan5]

Keep it up, midcan5, and after we yank your SSI we might start logging ANWR. LOL.

LOL - I'm never sure if you're serious! I was stationed in Alaska, I'd hate to see it ruined but it is far away so how about we destroy it but add lots and lots of beauty back into the continental US and keep the coast clear of ugliness.

 

[jillian]

Keep it up, midcan5, and after we yank your SSI we might start logging ANWR. LOL.

You know, you mess with social security and granny might just get a gun. ;oP

interesting how you'd break all the other toys just because of one... but again, it's irrelevant...issue disposed of.... doncha think? stupidly... arrogantly.... but disposed of nonetheless.

 

[Ninja]

interesting how you'd break all the other toys just because of one

Makes me think of a couple sayings:

The problem with being a gun rights supporter is the Left hates guns and the Right hates rights.

The Right protects the trunk of tree of liberty while proclaiming the fruits toxic. The Left engorges itself on the fruit while simultaneously chopping at the trunk with an axe.

... but again, it's irrelevant...issue disposed of.... doncha think? stupidly... arrogantly.... but disposed of nonetheless.

"Disposed of"? So you're conceding? Are you promising that money previously donated to the VPC, LCAV, and the Brady Campaign will now go to global warming awareness, etc?

 

[jillian]

Makes me think of a couple sayings:

The problem with being a gun rights supporter is the Left hates guns and the Right hates rights.

The Right protects the trunk of tree of liberty while proclaiming the fruits toxic. The Left engorges itself on the fruit while simultaneously chopping at the trunk with an axe.

Those are interesting sayings. I don't know that I disagree with them. But you know I don't hate guns.... I hate the loonies who think that guns should be given to them BEFORE a background check; before safety training; before any assurane that the person getting the gun isn't going to shoot up a school. I don't think those are unreasonable restrictions.

As to this decision, I also find it insulting to anyone who cares about the law. I do. I think the end result with respect to the D.C. ban is probably correct, but the analysis is obnoxious.

I expect more from someone who purports to be a jurist.

"Disposed of"? So you're conceding? Are you promising that money previously donated to the VPC, LCAV, and the Brady Campaign will now go to global warming awareness, etc?

Depends.... are people going to stop giving money to overturn roe v wade?

Might be time for a detente....make a trade

 

[editec]

Liberalism?

Now which liberalism are we talking about, again?

The liberalism of the founding Fathers or the straw man liberalism of the deluded neo-cons.

 

[sealybobo]

you got that half right. i'm a lib and I love guns. I also like gun laws.

and just because the gop is far right doesn't mean the dems will rule from the far left.

 

[Gunny]

And as you guys grow up, you'll figure out that government shouldn't be in your personal life.

You might even grow up enough to figure out that any party that tries to legislate religion is dangerous.

But, you'd have to be grown up enough to vote smart instead of voting to preserve toys.

And as you guys grow up, maybe you'll realize that you are more for government being in our lives than any true conservative is. This amounts to nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.

It just depends on what the issue is because you damned-sure don't mind the government in my wallet to support your social entitlement programs.

When are you going to take the blinders off where religion is concerned? You talk a good game, but it sure as Hell isn't backed up by your blind partisanship. Obama has attended a church for the past 20+ years that does not divorce its politics from religion, but because he suddenly tosses both church and preacher under the political expediency bus, none of that is an issue.

But let McGrampa lso much as look at a church as his car passes by and you're squealing "rabid religious right."

Absurd in the extreme.

 

[editec]

I also didn't mind the goverment reaching into my pocket to give you a job, Gunny.

That's how civilized societies work, you know?

 

[Gunny]

I also didn't mind the goverment reaching into my pocket to give you a job, Gunny.

That's how civilized societies work, you know?

Whether or not you minded is irrelevant to the fact the government helped itself without asking, and of all people on this board, YOU know nobody "gave" me jack.

My services were purchased at a price, so the proverbial give and take applies.

I am not opposed to paying taxes, nor am I opposed to helping those that truly need it.

That isn't what's happening. My wallet is being financially raped to support a bureaucracy and those who leech off of it. Paying taxes is one thing. Getting bent over the desk without so much as a reacharound quite another.

 

[greenpartyaz]

Liberalism is actually a good thing. Most of the world is already leaning left of center, and the US needs social changes to stop the madness of the last eight years. Conservative Republicans have been using the fear-tactics as long as I can remember, that liberals will raise taxes. Which is completely false. The GOP irresponsibly cuts taxes and then squeezes social programs like VA medical benefits and kindergarten education. They do everything they can to keep sex education out of schools, and push abstinence programs that don't work. They have been in bed with the Christian Right since 1971, and have let religion cloud their judgment. They honor swagger and ride on the coat-tails of previous generations. Eisenhower would be appalled at what they have done with the military. Barack Obama is going to be the next President of the United States, whether you like it or not. The Republicans should be in fear of a major loss of power in the fall, everybody is sick of what they have done. I am going to stagger to the voting booth, like a boxer in the twelfth round, with one eye swollen shut, and put a check by the big "D".

 

[editec]

Whether or not you minded is irrelevant to the fact the government helped itself without asking, and of all people on this board, YOU know nobody "gave" me jack.

My services were purchased at a price, so the proverbial give and take applies.

I am not opposed to paying taxes, nor am I opposed to helping those that truly need it.

That isn't what's happening. My wallet is being financially raped to support a bureaucracy and those who leech off of it. Paying taxes is one thing. Getting bent over the desk without so much as a reacharound quite another.

Your complaint seems to be that government imposes taxes to spend on things you object to.

Fair enough. We ALL have such complaints.

The government gave you a job, GunnyL.

I presume, given your rank, that you are retired and now living off your government pension checks, too.

Plenty of people objected to the amount of money the goverment spent giving you that job, and plenty of them think your pension is far too generous right now, too.

They object to YOU dipping into their pockets and taking their money, GunnyL. to them YOU are a parasite, sport.

How is their complaint any different in principle than yours is?

The difference is merely whose ox is being gored, I think.

 

[jillian]

And as you guys grow up, maybe you'll realize that you are more for government being in our lives than any true conservative is. This amounts to nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.

It just depends on what the issue is because you damned-sure don't mind the government in my wallet to support your social entitlement programs.

When are you going to take the blinders off where religion is concerned? You talk a good game, but it sure as Hell isn't backed up by your blind partisanship. Obama has attended a church for the past 20+ years that does not divorce its politics from religion, but because he suddenly tosses both church and preacher under the political expediency bus, none of that is an issue.

But let McGrampa lso much as look at a church as his car passes by and you're squealing "rabid religious right."

Absurd in the extreme.

First, McCain (I still think he's entitled to his name, he's earned that much) invited his connection to the rabid religious right. If that's a problem for you, you need to talk to him about licking Hagee and Parsley's robes for their endorsement. Talk to him about trading our courts for those endorsements.

And it was McCain who used to call them "agents of intolerance", before he sold his soul and all. Me? I wouldn't have been that rude. I'd just have ignored their asses.

Obama's church, regardless of what I think of it, isn't going to have one iota of affect on anything that matters politically.

If you think it does, feel free to state the issues. Until then, I couldn't care less about the continued whining by the right on the Wright issue.

And, in case you haven't noticed, it's getting your guy's butt kicked. Pick a new issue...you know, like on policy.

 

[sealybobo]

go to thomhartmann.com and read his op ed piece about how democracy, not free markets is the solution. long story short, there are no free markets. when you ask for less regulations, you are asking to shrink the middle class so corporations can profit more. i'm not explaining it right, but basically what's going on now is the same thing that led us to the great depression and the same as the guilded age. those that don't know history are destined to repeat.....

 

[Charles_Main]

Liberals are so delusional!

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately, far from liberalism being dead, it is just about to be revived in the United States with a vengeance.

In November, we will see a liberal Democrat as President, presiding over a liberal Democrat House and Senate.

We should not underestimate the magnitude of this disaster.

I suspect that liberalism in power will use this opportunity to enact a new "New Deal" and win for itself a position of electoral strength which will take literally decades to erode, by making millions of voters grateful for new social legislation that benefits them.

Thoughtful conservatives will want to ask themselves two things:

(1) How did this disaster happen? And, in particular, did any actions of ours contributed to our great defeat?

(2) What should we do now? How should we fight, now that we are a minority in government? How should we oppose?

In my opinion, the key to understanding what happened to us, and how to reverse it, is in understanding how the majority of Americans, who are neither liberal nor conservative, perceive the world, and how they perceive the two opposing political tendencies of liberalism and conservatism.

I think we -- more precisely, Republicans in power -- have done a lot to drive these people towards the Left. We need to analyze why this has happened.

A retreat under fire is the most difficult of all military maneuvers. Nonetheless, it is the one we will soon be compelled to carry out.

Do you know what did in the GOP? Besides the moral hypocracy of guys like Foley, Vetter & Craig? It was their overspending. Reagan even overspent. So don't you ever call yourselves fiscally responsible EVER again, because you haven't been in my lifetime, and I'm 37.

In Reagan's own words:

In order to cover newly-spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion. Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.

 

[mattskramer]

Can liberalism survive?!? It looks like it is progressing very well.

Summary of Findings: Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007

 

[midcan5]

I was reading some information on prehistory and early history and it seems conservatives haven't changed one iota even from those early times. Priests or shamans and the chief or village idiot ruled their world then keeping them in chains to the powerful, proof nothing changes in the conservatives world.

 

[sealybobo]

I was reading some information on prehistory and early history and it seems conservatives haven't changed one iota even from those early times. Priests or shamans and the chief or village idiot ruled their world then keeping them in chains to the powerful, proof nothing changes in the conservatives world.

So true. Or read about the Guilded Age. The same thing they did back then, they are doing now. Or around the Great Depression with Hoover and the start of the Federal Reserve.

Every once in a while the rich and powerful make a power grab and I can't believe we let it happen every time.

That's what happens when the GOP gets control of the entire government from the Supreme Court to Congress to the White House.

Of course they had to steal the 2000 and 2004 elections for conditions to be right, but whatever.

Read about the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. Then read about the men who started the Federal Reserve. Read about how corrupt Carnege, JP Morgan and Rockafeller were. Then ask yourself, "why would the government give these ruthless business men power over our money? They were crooks, not above breaking the law, bribery and corruption, and loved Monopolies. So it blows my mind that we let three con men like this take over our banks, not to mention Standard Oil, and god knows what else.

So if the 3 richest men took over the USA in 1913, which they did. Try fucking with the IRS and see that they totally above the law, but if they were able to take over the country and get away with it in 1913, why does anyone assume the rich people today would not steal an election or two?

They basically changed/ruined America when they bribed Congress in 1913. Now our gold is gone and our money is worthless. And, they passed the Federal Reserve Act during an Xmas break when there weren't enough people in Congress to pass such a bill. And, the Supreme Court in the 1800's said Income Tax is unconstitutional. That has never changed. So it is amazing that people don't know this occured. It has virtually vanashed from the history books. Any politician that says this is ruined. Ron Paul admits all this is true. And they paint him an a nut job. I don't love Ron Paul, but I agree he is right on this one.

Anyways, start looking into it. You will find many sites that will debunk my story. But they won't be able to dismiss the facts. Those three guys were horrible. The Federal Reserve is partially a private bank. The Supreme Court did say the Income tax is unconstitutional. They did pass the Fed. Res. act during xmas in 1913 when not enough Senators were in town, yadayada.

This day should live in infamy. LOL.