Liberal Compassion?

[red states rule]

Its a difficult subject because liberals are right in the sense that we should be concerned about the ever growing gap between the middle class, rich, and poor.

But they beleive to close the gap we should tax everyone, which i dissagree with. The taxes should be similar to what they are now if not lower, and liberals need to come up with another way to close the gap because the gap wont close unless we make it close. The majority of america is doing just fine so they dont care if the gap closes.

What liberals need to do when they take full controll in 08, is even out a real budget plan without taxing america. Maybe raising minimum wage? Perhaps taxing large profit oil company's? Maybe taxing other nations involved with american trade?

There are so many ways to solve this problem yet nobody does anything ever! On capitol hill.

What a crock. Corporations do NOT pay any taxes. The customers of those corporations PAY those taxes

If you tax the oil companies, the oil companies will raise the price of gas. Then you hurt the people you CLAIM to care so much about

Raising the minimum wage will increase the cost of doing business. The prices of the goods/services goes up OR the cut jobs. Any way you HURT the people you CLAIM to care about

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Are you telling me that with medical insurance and all, every American who needs surgery right now can get it? There are enough doctors, nurses and specialists to do ALL elective surgery right this minute?

Maybe not right this minute but as far as I can tell there is no big wait problem for people with insurance to schedule in their elective surgeries....unless perhaps it's in overcrowded hospitals that are being swamped by illegals or they're in a poorly run HMO.

What country do you live in? What's your average wait period?

 

[Annie]

Are you telling me that with medical insurance and all, every American who needs surgery right now can get it? There are enough doctors, nurses and specialists to do ALL elective surgery right this minute?

Actually while not 'right this minute', less than 3 days. I wanted a cyst removed. Went to my doctor, next day out patient surgery. How long for something like that where you are?

 

[red states rule]

Actually while not 'right this minute', less than 3 days. I wanted a cyst removed. Went to my doctor, next day out patient surgery. How long for something like that where you are?

We have the best medical care system in the world.

If you want to screw it up, just have a Hillarycare system running it.

 

[Dr Grump]

Maybe not right this minute but as far as I can tell there is no big wait problem for people with insurance to schedule in their elective surgeries....unless perhaps it's in overcrowded hospitals that are being swamped by illegals or they're in a poorly run HMO.

What country do you live in? What's your average wait period?

Same here re insurance. Soon as it is possible to schedule. No waiting list.

NZ. Dunno re waiting period, it depends on the surgery. My father-in-law just had his knee replacement surgery. Was on the waiting list three months. Cost him zippo....

 

[Dr Grump]

Actually while not 'right this minute', less than 3 days. I wanted a cyst removed. Went to my doctor, next day out patient surgery. How long for something like that where you are?

Same day. Went to my doc and he removed the cyst right there and then. $110...

 

[Annie]

Same day. Went to my doc and he removed the cyst right there and then. $110...

Well this was on my face, didn't want my doc, wanted a specialist. In any case, I'm glad for you.

 

[red states rule]

Same day. Went to my doc and he removed the cyst right there and then. $110...

Hey Doc - what happened to our discussion over taxes? Still waiting to know how much more you want me to pay for somone elses healthcare

 

[Gurdari]

If people are to have control over their own affairs then they must live in a capitalist state. Capitalism is based on individual control. Socialism is based on group control.

Capitalism is the only way to have control over your own affairs?
that really is not true.

Socialism can have a leader or heads of government, etc. but what I am talking about just means people have MORE control over decisions that affect their lives... and yes, that means workers at a company having a say in how it's run. Every company I've ever worked for was located in a capitalist nation run in a capitalist way... most of the workforce had little or no say in anything.

Bad idea. Mexico does not have a constitution like us. Big difference. There you only got the jefes and the gente, and the gente don't have much freedom. The state owns most of the property (like a socialist state does) and the jefes (who of course run the state) own most of the rest. Not a whole lot of free capitalism.

I used Mexico as an example of how someone else used a bad analogy. Basically, I meant to compare Venezuela NOW to Venezuela in the PAST, or to compare being poor in one latin country compared to another.... all because I disagreed with the analogy of the US and Venezuela... but see that post, I can;'t retype it all.

If you don't think Castro took over Cuba by force and maintained his power by force, then you need to talk to the Cuban refugees in Miami to get a real life education.

What??? When did I say that? Of course it was by force (popular force) it was a revolution, as it is called by Castro himself. Not sure what this is about...

So you think businesses can be sucessfully run by democratic elections?

Not sure if elections are warranted(???) but why is important to have a democratic say in how your nation is run? Or maybe it isn't important... that's a personal decision. I prefer to have input into my own life, and so both in terms of government and work - I like to be as close to equal as I can be with everyone else.

Under democratic capitalism the rules should be the same for everybody. Individuals should be able to create and run their own companies. So what if some individual companies get big and make a lot of money? Exactly what's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with success, or making money. I don't want to hold anyone back, or the other stereotypes about socialism... just that a larger section of the population has control than a small minority of the wealthiest... I guess I am less comfortable handing the reins of power over to someone else.

Back to one of my older questions - why DOES the US and other nations who are not collectivist, or socialist use those very pricipals to administer the most important parts of society? The fundamentals?
(if socialist, collective style is so bad?)

 

[Gurdari]

Hey Doc - what happened to our discussion over taxes? Still waiting to know how much more you want me to pay for somone elses healthcare

The same percentage they pay for yours... like how you pay for someone elses policing, education, firefighting and roads... and they pay for yours...etc.

 

[Gurdari]

Question

Who the hell is going to PAY for health care for every American? I sure as hell do not want to see already huge tax bill go higher by paying for sombody elses health care.

You pay into a system you have access to. Not really buying someone else healthcare...

The US healthcare system costs more than the Canadian 'socialized' version... (per person). So taxes go up - your individual spending goes down.
Healthcare is not free, but it can be far cheaper and more accessible.

 

[Dr Grump]

The same percentage they pay for yours... like how you pay for someone elses policing, education, firefighting and roads... and they pay for yours...etc.

I don't think he'll ever get it....

 

[red states rule]

I don't think he'll ever get it....

I do get it. Libs want more of my money. Heyt DR, still waiting - how much more of my money do you want me to pay in taxes?

Alos, I have never had a lib give a straight answer to the following:

1) To the left, at what income level does a single person become rich?

2) Why do libs think it is fair that the people who use government services the least, pay the most in income taxes?

3) With the top 10% of wage earners paying 66% of all Federal income taxes, why do you want them to pay more?

 

[red states rule]

You pay into a system you have access to. Not really buying someone else healthcare...

The US healthcare system costs more than the Canadian 'socialized' version... (per person). So taxes go up - your individual spending goes down.
Healthcare is not free, but it can be far cheaper and more accessible.

Our healthcare system costs more for two reasons - the US government is involved and lawyers like John Edwards have both driven up the costs. Plus the fucking illegals coming here, getting their treatment while US citizens pick up the tap is not helping either

I notice we have a lot of people from other countries coming to Amercia for their health care. If their is so great why don't they get their treatment at home?

 

[Dr Grump]

I do get it. Libs want more of my money. Heyt DR, still waiting - how much more of my money do you want me to pay in taxes?

Alos, I have never had a lib give a straight answer to the following:

1) To the left, at what income level does a single person become rich?

2) Why do libs think it is fair that the people who use government services the least, pay the most in income taxes?

3) With the top 10% of wage earners paying 66% of all Federal income taxes, why do you want them to pay more?

1) You tell me. You have all the answers

2) Do they? Who uses the government services the most? How much tax do they pay?

3) I want them to pay more? Would you please link to the post where it says I want them to pay more. I'll even settle for a post that says I want an increase in taxes (WTF??)

 

[red states rule]

1) You tell me. You have all the answers

2) Do they? Who uses the government services the most? How much tax do they pay?

3) I want them to pay more? Would you please link to the post where it says I want them to pay more. I'll even settle for a post that says I want an increase in taxes (WTF??)

You bellow for a version of Hillarycare - who is going to pay for it? Libs want the government to pay for college - who is going to pay for it?

Typical of the left - duck, dodge,a nd hide. Much like Pelosi and Co. They are foaming at the mouth to raise taxes but they will not admit it. Now they say "we will let the Bush tax cuts 'expire', but that is not really a tax increase

Why are you libs so gutless to admit you want the producers to fork over more of their money?

The "poor" use the most in government services and they pay the least in income taxes. The bottom 50% of wage earners pay less then 4% of all Federal income taxes

 

[Dr Grump]

You bellow for a version of Hillarycare - who is going to pay for it? Libs want the government to pay for college - who is going to pay for it?

Typical of the left - duck, dodge,a nd hide. Much like Pelosi and Co. They are foaming at the mouth to raise taxes but they will not admit it. Now they say "we will let the Bush tax cuts 'expire', but that is not really a tax increase

Why are you libs so gutless to admit you want the producers to fork over more of their money?

The "poor" use the most in government services and they pay the least in income taxes. The bottom 50% of wage earners pay less then 4% of all Federal income taxes

I bellow for nothing. Please show me where I bellow for Hillarycare???

I am not surprised the poor use the most govt services. If Bill Gates or Paul Allan or Sumner Redstone were crying for Govt services I'd be very surprised! In fact, I'd be flabbergasted!

 

[red states rule]

So, how much more in taxes do you want people to pay?

Libs want government run health care, government paid college for all, and somebody has to pay for it

I am still waiting for some direct answers to direct questions.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Capitalism is the only way to have control over your own affairs?
that really is not true.

Socialism can have a leader or heads of government, etc. but what I am talking about just means people have MORE control over decisions that affect their lives... and yes, that means workers at a company having a say in how it's run. Every company I've ever worked for was located in a capitalist nation run in a capitalist way... most of the workforce had little or no say in anything.

I used Mexico as an example of how someone else used a bad analogy. Basically, I meant to compare Venezuela NOW to Venezuela in the PAST, or to compare being poor in one latin country compared to another.... all because I disagreed with the analogy of the US and Venezuela... but see that post, I can;'t retype it all.

What??? When did I say that? Of course it was by force (popular force) it was a revolution, as it is called by Castro himself. Not sure what this is about...

Not sure if elections are warranted(???) but why is important to have a democratic say in how your nation is run? Or maybe it isn't important... that's a personal decision. I prefer to have input into my own life, and so both in terms of government and work - I like to be as close to equal as I can be with everyone else.

Nothing is wrong with success, or making money. I don't want to hold anyone back, or the other stereotypes about socialism... just that a larger section of the population has control than a small minority of the wealthiest... I guess I am less comfortable handing the reins of power over to someone else.

Back to one of my older questions - why DOES the US and other nations who are not collectivist, or socialist use those very pricipals to administer the most important parts of society? The fundamentals?
(if socialist, collective style is so bad?)

The more control a government has, the less control you, the individual, will have. You seem to think that if the government controls those big, bad, large companies, you, the individual, will have more freedom and equality. Could you please explain exactly how that works?

By the way, how did those companies become big, bad and large in the first place? Do you think they grew large because of a "democratic process" running the company from its inception?

Socialism has been incrementally growing in the U.S. From when the government took over the railroads and ran them into the ground, to bankrupting the social security system, to wasting trillions of taxpayer dollars, the government has demonstrated clearly that it cannot run anything competently. The big exception is the IRS.

The truth is that socialism is a form of parasitic government. It needs to feed on capitalism or it will die. And if the socialistic parasite becomes too greedy and fat it will kill its host.

I'm also waiting for your answers to red states rule. Just how big and fat do you think the parasite needs to become in order for you to have your "equality"?

 

[boedicca]

I suggest anyone who advocates total equality read Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron".