CDZ Let's run a little experiment. Topic: Paying for College

[Mac1958]

The purpose of this sociological experiment is to see if Americans are capable of thinking, collaborating and innovating together any more.

Let's start with this particular problem: College has become incredibly expensive and it's saddling students with ridiculous debt from Day One as they enter the workforce. So, where are we right now on this issue?

• Some want to address this by simply wiping out current college debt, or decreasing it to some degree, with taxpayer money
• Some are annoyed by this, such as parents (*ahem*) and students who have paid their way by the rules and will be cheated

So what I'm going to do is toss out a few "IWIWC's", "I wonder if we could...", and let's see if we could get anywhere. Important note: I'm sure we know that this is how businesses often address problems, by tossing out ideas from all directions, massaging them, changing them, tweaking them, throwing some of them out. And, just as importantly, when it sees a problem with an idea, it doesn't just give up and dismiss the whole thing So, rather than running with our normal impulse to apply band-aids and not think things through:

• I wonder if we could leverage American Capitalism to effectively address this
• I wonder if we could have employers engaged in the process, with the value to them being better and deeper talent pools
• I wonder if we could incorporate some kind of tax incentives to participate in the process
• I wonder if we could find a way to attach junior colleges to this process, for those professions that don't need a full four year education
• I wonder if we could utilize employer groups and/or college groups to somehow organize this by industry or subject matter area
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employers who have educated employees, just to have the employees leave
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employees so that the employer cannot go too far with expectations after their investment
• I wonder if we could find a way to keep the kids learning post-employment to improve their skills by incentivizing their employers

Okay, there ya go. After I typed the first line, the rest came to me as I was typing. Tiny little ideas that mean nothing on their own, but could be a germ. Let's see if anything constructive happens.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

The astronomical growth in tuition rates at colleges & universities is in direct correlation to the rise in availability of unlimited student loans.
That's is the main driver of the problem. Focus on that

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

If you want to make college CHEAP...........

1. Get rid of the boards governing the colleges, as they are the ones that are making tons of money off charging obscene rates for lousy or no actual education.

2. Get rid of the tax incentives college executives and board members get.

3. Make colleges APPLY to students to get them to come to THEIR college.

4. Make colleges actually MANAGE their campuses so there isn't any hazing, harassing, rape, bullying, theft, etc...

5. Professors and teachers get paid via the number of graduating students per graded level (A's, B's, C's, etc..)

6. Students college tuition needs to be all inclusive............classes, labs, books, rent, food, medical care on campus.....

 

[occupied]

The whole system is broken because our diploma mills have turned out so many graduates that the value of a degree has been diluted. Pretty sure the actual skills needed to work in some office at entry level could be taught in a few weeks or months at a community college. Do trade schools still exist? In a fairly short order they can train someone to build houses or weld and they are out in the workforce making good money. Why is this model not used by suit and tie businesses?

 

[candycorn]

I wonder if we could do a reverse Social Security type system. Where by the following happens. Every adult, when they turn 18 get 60 hours paid for by the government and an option for 60 more hours. Meaning that you get an associate's degree paid for by Uncle Sam. And, like Social Security where you pay some every paycheck, you pay for the college over your work life through payroll deduction. You can use the 60 hours however you want. You don't have to use them all. And you can pay it back early if you want.

For those fresh out of HS and want to get into a 4 year university...the 60 hours can be used for the basics at a JUCO before transferring to a 4 year university or they can be used at the university itself.

• For those in a career (or those fresh out of HS), they can get a training certificate and only have to pay back what they used...not 60 hours.
• For those who are doing the whole 4 year thing, the first 60 hours being paid back are at a lower interest rate than the next 60 hours.
• The hours can be used for anything. If you want to get a degree...fine. If you just want to take some classes because you're interested in creative writing, theater, ballet, etc... Remember, you're on the hook for whatever you spend until it's paid off plus interest.

This would only be available to those attending state supported universities.

Anyway, erase the barrier for everyone to get training or a formal education and stop the haves/have-nots scenario we've constructed.

 

[AMart]

The astronomical growth in tuition rates at colleges & universities is in direct correlation to the rise in availability of unlimited student loans.
That's is the main driver of the problem. Focus on that

Yep government involvement messed it up. There are also just way too many people borrowing money for useless degrees.

 

[TNHarley]

As usual, the govt getting involved increased prices. Just like it did with healthcare.
It increases demand because it makes it easier to get.
So now, people that will get use out of college and contribute to society, are paying higher costs because the govt loaned some weirdo 50K dollars for a liberal arts degree or some stupid crap.
As with the other 80% of our problems, it is caused by the govt. Thats why i dont understand why people want to give them more control over our lives.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The entire college experience has been ruined by liberal policies. Like so many other things
Government got involved - and colleges turned into cash cow machines to squeeze as much money as possible out of students.
Today your average 4 year degree takes 6.5 years as colleges piled on unnecessary classes to pull in the government grant money and student loan money. Then colleges everywhere got into the real estate business, and built enormous student housing projects charging students exorbitant rent for tiny spaces - AGAIN - paid for the government loans/grants.

And here we are. The very same politicians who created this mess are all screaming about student loan debts - when they are why they have such high debts!!!

 

[JoeMoma]

5. Professors and teachers get paid via the number of graduating students per graded level (A's, B's, C's, etc..)

Naw! That would result in massive grade inflation and professors passing people just to get the bucks.

 

[alang1216]

The purpose of this sociological experiment is to see if Americans are capable of thinking, collaborating and innovating together any more.

Let's start with this particular problem: College has become incredibly expensive and it's saddling students with ridiculous debt from Day One as they enter the workforce. So, where are we right now on this issue?

• Some want to address this by simply wiping out current college debt, or decreasing it to some degree, with taxpayer money
• Some are annoyed by this, such as parents (*ahem*) and students who have paid their way by the rules and will be cheated

So what I'm going to do is toss out a few "IWIWC's", "I wonder if we could...", and let's see if we could get anywhere. Important note: I'm sure we know that this is how businesses often address problems, by tossing out ideas from all directions, massaging them, changing them, tweaking them, throwing some of them out. And, just as importantly, when it sees a problem with an idea, it doesn't just give up and dismiss the whole thing So, rather than running with our normal impulse to apply band-aids and not think things through:

• I wonder if we could leverage American Capitalism to effectively address this
• I wonder if we could have employers engaged in the process, with the value to them being better and deeper talent pools
• I wonder if we could incorporate some kind of tax incentives to participate in the process
• I wonder if we could find a way to attach junior colleges to this process, for those professions that don't need a full four year education
• I wonder if we could utilize employer groups and/or college groups to somehow organize this by industry or subject matter area
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employers who have educated employees, just to have the employees leave
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employees so that the employer cannot go too far with expectations after their investment
• I wonder if we could find a way to keep the kids learning post-employment to improve their skills by incentivizing their employers

Okay, there ya go. After I typed the first line, the rest came to me as I was typing. Tiny little ideas that mean nothing on their own, but could be a germ. Let's see if anything constructive happens.

We sent our kids to (a great state) college so they'd not only get an education but get to grow and be independent. It worked great and they came away with zero student loans (we later paid for master's degrees for each). Going away to college is unique but they could have gotten a fine education at our local community college is money had been an issue.

I'd like to see a requirement for high schooler grads to join the military or join the peace corps (does it still exist?) or some other service 'camp' where they might build homes for the homeless and learn construction skills. Internships at companies work also work to give kids a better idea of what a particular career path might actually look like.

Industry won't do these on its own, the gov't needs to set up a system they can participate in.

 

[2aguy]

The purpose of this sociological experiment is to see if Americans are capable of thinking, collaborating and innovating together any more.

Let's start with this particular problem: College has become incredibly expensive and it's saddling students with ridiculous debt from Day One as they enter the workforce. So, where are we right now on this issue?

• Some want to address this by simply wiping out current college debt, or decreasing it to some degree, with taxpayer money
• Some are annoyed by this, such as parents (*ahem*) and students who have paid their way by the rules and will be cheated

So what I'm going to do is toss out a few "IWIWC's", "I wonder if we could...", and let's see if we could get anywhere. Important note: I'm sure we know that this is how businesses often address problems, by tossing out ideas from all directions, massaging them, changing them, tweaking them, throwing some of them out. And, just as importantly, when it sees a problem with an idea, it doesn't just give up and dismiss the whole thing So, rather than running with our normal impulse to apply band-aids and not think things through:

• I wonder if we could leverage American Capitalism to effectively address this
• I wonder if we could have employers engaged in the process, with the value to them being better and deeper talent pools
• I wonder if we could incorporate some kind of tax incentives to participate in the process
• I wonder if we could find a way to attach junior colleges to this process, for those professions that don't need a full four year education
• I wonder if we could utilize employer groups and/or college groups to somehow organize this by industry or subject matter area
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employers who have educated employees, just to have the employees leave
• I wonder if we could provide protection to employees so that the employer cannot go too far with expectations after their investment
• I wonder if we could find a way to keep the kids learning post-employment to improve their skills by incentivizing their employers

Okay, there ya go. After I typed the first line, the rest came to me as I was typing. Tiny little ideas that mean nothing on their own, but could be a germ. Let's see if anything constructive happens.

If you took debt, you need to pay it back....people who don't go to college shouldn't have to pay the debt of people who did...it is as simple as that...the gender studies degree shouldn't be paid for by the guy who works at Amazon or who went to plumbing school...


Yeah....a local radio host, Dan Proft, pointed out a way out....there is a college that doesn't take payment up front, they take a percentage from you future salary when you get a job......this incentivizes the college to educate you in a way where you can actually get a job....

Here is a story on it...

The concept is deceptively simple: Instead of charging students tuition — which often requires them to take out thousands of dollars in loans — students go to school for free and are required to pay back a percentage of their income after graduation, but only if they get a job with a good salary.

The idea, known as an Income Share Agreement, or I.S.A., has been experimented with and talked about for years. But what’s happening at Lambda School, an online learning start-up founded in 2017 with the backing of Y Combinator, has captivated venture capitalists.

No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income (if You Find a Job) (Published 2019)

Income Sharing Agreements are gaining the attention of higher education and Wall Street. One early success story is getting a boost from venture capital.

www.nytimes.com

At the same time......higher education is controlled by leftists.....if they can get their hooks into you by getting you into debt for a degree that doesn't make you a living, all good to them.........

 

[2aguy]

The astronomical growth in tuition rates at colleges & universities is in direct correlation to the rise in availability of unlimited student loans.
That's is the main driver of the problem. Focus on that

All part of the plan......leftists increase student debt by making loans too easy to get....then they have their hooks in you when you are stuck with lifelong debt...

 

[Polishprince]

The whole system is broken because our diploma mills have turned out so many graduates that the value of a degree has been diluted. Pretty sure the actual skills needed to work in some office at entry level could be taught in a few weeks or months at a community college. Do trade schools still exist? In a fairly short order they can train someone to build houses or weld and they are out in the workforce making good money. Why is this model not used by suit and tie businesses?

People aren't going to want to go to inexpensive community colleges and trade schools, especially if they can borrow the money to attend a quality institution and then have the loan forgiven when a sufficiently liberal president is elected.

Further, there is little respect given to lower rung schools. Look at the Supreme Fucking Court, example given. 4 Harvard grads,4 Yale alumni and the 9th member is a girl from Notre Dame.


Not a single member ever that was educated at Eastern Gateway Community College, Kent State or even Akron.

 

[2aguy]

I wonder if we could do a reverse Social Security type system. Where by the following happens. Every adult, when they turn 18 get 60 hours paid for by the government and an option for 60 more hours. Meaning that you get an associate's degree paid for by Uncle Sam. And, like Social Security where you pay some every paycheck, you pay for the college over your work life through payroll deduction. You can use the 60 hours however you want. You don't have to use them all. And you can pay it back early if you want.

For those fresh out of HS and want to get into a 4 year university...the 60 hours can be used for the basics at a JUCO before transferring to a 4 year university or they can be used at the university itself.

• For those in a career (or those fresh out of HS), they can get a training certificate and only have to pay back what they used...not 60 hours.
• For those who are doing the whole 4 year thing, the first 60 hours being paid back are at a lower interest rate than the next 60 hours.
• The hours can be used for anything. If you want to get a degree...fine. If you just want to take some classes because you're interested in creative writing, theater, ballet, etc... Remember, you're on the hook for whatever you spend until it's paid off plus interest.

This would only be available to those attending state supported universities.

Anyway, erase the barrier for everyone to get training or a formal education and stop the haves/have-nots scenario we've constructed.

This is already a model......as I show in post #12....the problem? Gender studies for anti-American understanding will never pay enough to pay off debt, so colleges that enter into a model where they provide the education first, then deduct a percentage of your future income will have no incentive to provide those Gender Hate America degrees....

 

[2aguy]

How about streamlining college degrees....why does an accountant need to spend semesters learning history or take science classes?

College is a trade school for doctors, engineers, accountants.........treat it like that. For those who want to learn English, History and the liberal arts, put them on that track..........when did plumbers and electricians waste their time on history classes?

 

[JoeMoma]

I used to listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio.

 

[occupied]

People aren't going to want to go to inexpensive community colleges and trade schools, especially if they can borrow the money to attend a quality institution and then have the loan forgiven when a sufficiently liberal president is elected.

Further, there is little respect given to lower rung schools. Look at the Supreme Fucking Court, example given. 4 Harvard grads,4 Yale alumni and the 9th member is a girl from Notre Dame.


Not a single member ever that was educated at Eastern Gateway Community College, Kent State or even Akron.

That's all part of the continuing lie that a degree is the path to middle class prosperity. American universities have issued so many degrees in the past few decades that businesses can require degrees but not pay more than a good bricklayer or welder can ask for.

 

[AMart]

How about streamlining college degrees....why does an accountant need to spend semesters learning history or take science classes?

College is a trade school for doctors, engineers, accountants.........treat it like that. For those who want to learn English, History and the liberal arts, put them on that track..........when did plumbers and electricians waste their time on history classes?

You can learn history, liberal arts and all kinds of chit for free online. Universities are not the gatekeepers of info and knowledge anymore.

 

[2aguy]

You can learn history, liberal arts and all kinds of chit for free online. Universities are not the gatekeepers of info and knowledge anymore.

Yep.........without the leftist indoctrination...

 

[Polishprince]

That's all part of the continuing lie that a degree is the path to middle class prosperity. American universities have issued so many degrees in the past few decades that businesses can require degrees but not pay more than a good bricklayer or welder can ask for.

I think the problem is that so many young people borrow a shitload of money to get a degree in Polka, Portuguese Poetry or Homosexual Studies. No jobs in those fields, at least none that require an expensive degree.

The government needs to quit lending money to people in these fields, those who graduate with degrees in electrical engineering, proctology or other fields usually don't have a problem getting well paid employment. After all, there are always buildings that will need be wired and gerbils that have to be retrieved from gay guys rectums.