Let's Repeal Obamacare and Try Freedom re Healthcare and Most Other Things Too

[Foxfyre]

As the year winds down and we'll have a brand new year soon, my New Year's wish is that we have elected a Congress who understands and values the kind of freedom our Founders intended this nation to pioneer and emulate.

Never before had there been any serious notion that people have God given unalienable rights that should be inviolate. Never before had there been any serious concept that people did not need a king or other government authority to govern them and, when their unalienable rights were secured, they would govern themselves more competently than any governing authority could do.

Let's start with repealing Obamacare and try freedom in its place. Next lets start reversing other destructive, freedom destroying initiatives that some in our government have endorsed or intend for our 'benefit'. (Mostly their benefit of course.)

Let's learn again what a government of the people, for the people, and by the people really means.

. . . .As a small business owner who just got hit with a $3600 insurance premium hike for 2011 and who will be paying (at a minimum) $177,500 over the next ten years just for the “privilege” of having one family covered with insurance, you can be assured that my points are more than mere rhetorical ones. If I had my druthers, I would have a catastrophic-only plan that covers emergencies and life-threatening illnesses, and pay the rest out of pocket. I’d probably save well over $125,000 in the next ten years with a plan like that—if one existed.

The problem is, a plan like that doesn’t exist…can’t exist. Why? The government bureaucrats won’t allow it. In our state, there are, by law (or regulation), only three types of insurance, provided by three insurers. It is a closed market scheme. In addition, let’s just say (for the sake of discussion) that a plan like that did exist in the next state over and I wanted to purchase it. I couldn’t do that either—because the government bureaucrats have created an artificial wall that won’t allow insurance to be bought across state lines. You see, in this simple and real small-business example, already government is the problem—and we’re paying the price.

Last year, when Nancy Pelosi went on her lunatic rant about insurance carriers being “immoral”, it was the epitome of hypocrisy—sort of like the Devil calling demons evil for doing what their master taught them to do. [Too harsh?...What is it then, if not evil, for those who purposely unleash a disease to also claim to be the cure?] People who claim that insurance companies have monopolies don’t realize that it is Congress that created the monopolies to begin with. That is why Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, and the rest of their ilk, have been so disingenuous in shoving ObamaCare up America’s rectum. . . .
Repeal ObamaCare. Then, Let’s Do Something Really Radical…Try Freedom. | RedState

 

[Common Sense]

here ya go.

heres a few links to catastrophic only plans:

Catasrophic Health Insurance Coverage

Catastrophic Health Insurance Coverage – Go Health Insurance

Catastrophic Coverage

 

[Foxfyre]

here ya go.

heres a few links to catastrophic only plans:

Catasrophic Health Insurance Coverage

Catastrophic Health Insurance Coverage – Go Health Insurance

Catastrophic Coverage

Can you get one of these in your state? I don't believe that you can in New Mexico.

 

[Foxfyre]

But let's say for the sake of argument that such policies are available to everybody.

Even if you are one who wants government to mandate the system, why wouldn't it make sense to mandate such a low cost catastrophic insurance policy instead of one that pays just about everything?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

 

[Foxfyre]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt. How much would that be exacerbated by insuring everybody in that way and how many would you drive out of the healthcare provider business altogether once you stripped them of most or all of their profits?

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm not sure if freedom to pay high premiums to a private company whose CEO earns a high salary based on high profits (meaning low or no payments to the insured when possible) makes one truly free.
I wonder why a public option, available to all of our citizens at low cost, is considered a type of tyranny? I simply don't get it.
Of course I understand greed, and greed is a common attribute of the human species. So, it's clear why some would deny to others healthcare in the name of self interest.
And that is why I characterize the New Right as members of the Callous Conservative Club.

 

[Common Sense]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt.

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

if everyone paid the same premium for the same care, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

now lets say that premium is $150 per person (for argument sake), is that unreasonable? would that shift the risk of illness from the consumer on to the insurance or health care providers?


the best idea would be a single payor plan that would cover most all care. now if someone wanted to purchase an extra policy out of pocket for subsequent care, then they would be allow to do so. but as soon as you say single payor, the right goes crazy and called it socialized medicine and rants about a loss of freedom, when in reality the current system is so broke, the free market has pushed many of the middle class out of the affordable care market.

 

[Foxfyre]

Name ANY entitlement initiated by the Federal government that has not proved to be more expensive than it was promoted in the beginning? Name any entitlement initiated by the Federal government that has reduced costs without forcing higher costs on others? Name any entitlement initiated by the Federal government that has not proved to be unsustainable without taking more and more resources from the people while reducing their choices, options, and opportunities.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Let's Repeal Obamacare and Try Freedom re Healthcare and Most Other Things Too

Bring It On!!!

We've got THE Pro on our side!!!!​

“We need to be mindful of what has happened in our history; it clearly has repeated itself with social security, Medicare, or any effort to improve our society,” Potter says. He writes in the book on Obama's naïveté going into March 2010 when he met with the heads of insurance companies and spoke about the health care bill and the challenges that lie ahead as the GOP gains control of the House, “They will try to weaken [the health care reform bill] to go back to the status quo so they can continue to reward $hareholder$. Obama knows that. He knew it going in. They have million$ of dollar$ to influence public policy and that was why he worked with the pharmaceutical companies so they wouldn’t throw nuclear bombs at the bill.”

 

[NYcarbineer]

I have 2 better ideas:

1. Let's stop pretending the founders are Gods.

2. Let's stop pretending it's still the 18th Century.

 

[Foxfyre]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt.

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

if everyone paid the same premium for the same care, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

now lets say that premium is $150 per person (for argument sake), is that unreasonable? would that shift the risk of illness from the consumer on to the insurance or health care providers?


the best idea would be a single payor plan that would cover most all care. now if someone wanted to purchase an extra policy out of pocket for subsequent care, then they would be allow to do so. but as soon as you say single payor, the right goes crazy and called it socialized medicine and rants about a loss of freedom, when in reality the current system is so broke, the free market has pushed many of the middle class out of the affordable care market.

The ONLY way you could assign an arbitrary low premium for everybody to pay would be to micromanage all costs from aspirin tablets to xray machines to tongue depressors. You are suggesting that we hand over ALL our freedoms, choices, and options to a Federal government to micromanage and the end to the great American experiment that has made us the greatest nation the world has ever known.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt.

Bullshit!!!!!

Medicare D was a Bush-give-away, to private-insurance companies & the big-pharmas, while the bill was passed-on to the taxpayers!!!!!​

 

[Foxfyre]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt.

Bullshit!!!!!

Medicare D was a Bush-give-away, to private-insurance companies & the big-pharmas, while the bill was passed-on to the taxpayers!!!!!​

I was as opposed to Bush's senior prescription bill as I was to any other government entitlement of that type. And it will prove to be just as unsustainable and contain just as many unintended negative consequences as all the rest.

Medicare is bankrupt no matter how much you don't want to believe that. It is not paying its way and can't unless benefits are substantially cut and taxes substantially raised on everybody which will have more negative consequences. Meanwhile we have made a generation of senior citizens totally dependent on Medicare even as it was one of several factors that have priced private insurance clear out of reach of most seniors even if private insurance is available.

 

[Common Sense]

The ONLY way you could assign an arbitrary low premium for everybody to pay would be to micromanage all costs from aspirin tablets to xray machines to tongue depressors. You are suggesting that we hand over ALL our freedoms, choices, and options to a Federal government to micromanage and the end to the great American experiment that has made us the greatest nation the world has ever known.

are you that dense?

this is no different than the options we currently get with private insurers, except for the fact the insurers and providers make money off health care. how are freedoms lost if you receive all the care you need at a reasonable price? insurance works to spread the risk out amongst the people. hence the more people in the plan, the lower your risk can be, and the lower your premium can be. these arent arbitrary numbers created out of thin air, they are based on the costs incurred by health care insurers and providers. and also you get a kaiser plans for around $150 that covers most all care (i know this because thats close to what i pay)

you didnt even pay attention to being able to buy additional health care plans outside of the main plan, just as you asked for in the OP. i simply took it a step farther and instead of providing only catastrophic care, i made it basic/intermediate health care.

"You are suggesting that we hand over ALL our freedoms, choices, and options to a Federal government"

Im not suggesting to make all industry property of the government, that would be a communist society, and we werent founded on the principle.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I think the Republicans have the backing of the People to do something on the Democrat Health Care debacle. Eliminating the mandate portion has the most backing from the People. Imprisoning & Fining Citizens for not buying Health Insurance? That's just not what America is about. Hopefully Freedom & Liberty will win out in the end. The Republicans have a real opportunity here. Hopefully they'll come through. I guess we'll see pretty soon.

 

[Iowa10000]

the problem isn't the govt it's the people who control the govt, and they are not elected but pay to get many elected to fight their battle for them.

The truth is we are a country that allow us to be individuals that must react as a part of the whole nation. When one person or small group start to believe that what is good for them is more important than what is good for the total country it should not be allowed.

 

[beowolfe]

As the year winds down and we'll have a brand new year soon, my New Year's wish is that we have elected a Congress who understands and values the kind of freedom our Founders intended this nation to pioneer and emulate.

Never before had there been any serious notion that people have God given unalienable rights that should be inviolate. Never before had there been any serious concept that people did not need a king or other government authority to govern them and, when their unalienable rights were secured, they would govern themselves more competently than any governing authority could do.

Let's start with repealing Obamacare and try freedom in its place. Next lets start reversing other destructive, freedom destroying initiatives that some in our government have endorsed or intend for our 'benefit'. (Mostly their benefit of course.)

Let's learn again what a government of the people, for the people, and by the people really means.

. . . .As a small business owner who just got hit with a $3600 insurance premium hike for 2011 and who will be paying (at a minimum) $177,500 over the next ten years just for the “privilege” of having one family covered with insurance, you can be assured that my points are more than mere rhetorical ones. If I had my druthers, I would have a catastrophic-only plan that covers emergencies and life-threatening illnesses, and pay the rest out of pocket. I’d probably save well over $125,000 in the next ten years with a plan like that—if one existed.

The problem is, a plan like that doesn’t exist…can’t exist. Why? The government bureaucrats won’t allow it. In our state, there are, by law (or regulation), only three types of insurance, provided by three insurers. It is a closed market scheme. In addition, let’s just say (for the sake of discussion) that a plan like that did exist in the next state over and I wanted to purchase it. I couldn’t do that either—because the government bureaucrats have created an artificial wall that won’t allow insurance to be bought across state lines. You see, in this simple and real small-business example, already government is the problem—and we’re paying the price.

Last year, when Nancy Pelosi went on her lunatic rant about insurance carriers being “immoral”, it was the epitome of hypocrisy—sort of like the Devil calling demons evil for doing what their master taught them to do. [Too harsh?...What is it then, if not evil, for those who purposely unleash a disease to also claim to be the cure?] People who claim that insurance companies have monopolies don’t realize that it is Congress that created the monopolies to begin with. That is why Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, and the rest of their ilk, have been so disingenuous in shoving ObamaCare up America’s rectum. . . .
Repeal ObamaCare. Then, Let’s Do Something Really Radical…Try Freedom. | RedState

I've never understood why having health insurance was tied to your job anyway. That's not freedom. That places you under the thumb of your employer, health insurance wise. Like the guy in the quote. If given the choice, he wouldn't offer health insurance except for things that were catastrophic in nature. Which means that any illness his employees contracted would end up as a catastrophe because they couldn't get care until it was.

 

[Foxfyre]

The ONLY way you could assign an arbitrary low premium for everybody to pay would be to micromanage all costs from aspirin tablets to xray machines to tongue depressors. You are suggesting that we hand over ALL our freedoms, choices, and options to a Federal government to micromanage and the end to the great American experiment that has made us the greatest nation the world has ever known.

are you that dense?

this is no different than the options we currently get with private insurers, except for the fact the insurers and providers make money off health care. how are freedoms lost if you receive all the care you need at a reasonable price? insurance works to spread the risk out amongst the people. hence the more people in the plan, the lower your risk can be, and the lower your premium can be. these arent arbitrary numbers created out of thin air, they are based on the costs incurred by health care insurers and providers. and also you get a kaiser plans for around $150 that covers most all care (i know this because thats close to what i pay)

you didnt even pay attention to being able to buy additional health care plans outside of the main plan, just as you asked for in the OP. i simply took it a step farther and instead of providing only catastrophic care, i made it basic/intermediate health care.

"You are suggesting that we hand over ALL our freedoms, choices, and options to a Federal government"

Im not suggesting to make all industry property of the government, that would be a communist society, and we werent founded on the principle.

Do you not understand how pervasive and far reaching government controls on all healthcare costs would be? And government would have to control those costs or any healthcare entitlement will be unsustainable by any means in no time at all. I have already talked with one physician who is considering getting out of her HMO and going into private practice because of the constraints on fees that can be charged for Medicare and Medicaid patients and she resents having to pass on unpaid costs to privately insured patients. In other words she is considering not accepting Medicare and Medicaid patients at all. And if the government caps ALL physician fees, she will simply retire.

We have another physician friend who went into private practice and accepts no insurance of any kind. She charges a reasonable amount for a routine office visit; a bit more for analysis of tests, innoculations, etc., diagnoses and prescribes for sore throats etc., vaccinates kids and gives flu shots, and otherwise provides basic checkups and routine healthcare at affordable prices. She has all the business she can handle including senior citizens who are willing to pay her fees for the extra attention and no bullshitting that she provides.

The government has NEVER managed an entitlement that has not been more expensive than it had to be and that has not included unintended negative consequences that didn't have to happen including causing higher costs in the private market as well.

 

[Iowa10000]

I think the Republicans have the backing of the People to do something on the Democrat Health Care debacle. Eliminating the mandate portion has the most backing from the People. Imprisoning & Fining Citizens for not buying Health Insurance? That's just not what America is about. Hopefully Freedom & Liberty will win out in the end. The Republicans have a real opportunity here. Hopefully they'll come through. I guess we'll see pretty soon.

So I'm guessing your against having driver licens or do you need auto insurance?

Why should I have to pay to fish, and how dare they tell me how many fish I can have.

And if I want to own weapons of mass destruction who is the govt to tell me no or set up rules.

You know really if I am stronger than you why should it be against the law for me taking what I want from you.

Where does this govt get off.