Let's Repeal Obamacare and Try Freedom re Healthcare and Most Other Things Too

[Foxfyre]

I think the Republicans have the backing of the People to do something on the Democrat Health Care debacle. Eliminating the mandate portion has the most backing from the People. Imprisoning & Fining Citizens for not buying Health Insurance? That's just not what America is about. Hopefully Freedom & Liberty will win out in the end. The Republicans have a real opportunity here. Hopefully they'll come through. I guess we'll see pretty soon.

So I'm guessing your against having driver licens or do you need auto insurance?

Why should I have to pay to fish, and how dare they tell me how many fish I can have.

And if I want to own weapons of mass destruction who is the govt to tell me no or set up rules.

You know really if I am stronger than you why should it be against the law for me taking what I want from you.

Where does this govt get off.

If you choose not to drive or to drive only off road or on private roads, you are not required to have either an auto license or auto insurance.

If you choose not to fish or fish only in your own private pond that you stock yourself, you are not required to have a fishing license and there is no limit.

I'm not sure what the WMD has to do with this debate but I would certainly object to the Federal government mandating that I had to buy some.

You are not allowed to take what you want from me because we have a Constitution intended to establish and defend your unalienable rights among which is your right to your person, property, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Those things that are unalienable rights are those that require no contribution of any kind from any other person.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I think the Republicans have the backing of the People to do something on the Democrat Health Care debacle. Eliminating the mandate portion has the most backing from the People. Imprisoning & Fining Citizens for not buying Health Insurance? That's just not what America is about. Hopefully Freedom & Liberty will win out in the end. The Republicans have a real opportunity here. Hopefully they'll come through. I guess we'll see pretty soon.

So I'm guessing your against having driver licens or do you need auto insurance?

Why should I have to pay to fish, and how dare they tell me how many fish I can have.

And if I want to own weapons of mass destruction who is the govt to tell me no or set up rules.

You know really if I am stronger than you why should it be against the law for me taking what I want from you.

Where does this govt get off.

People aren't Fish or Cars. Forcing Citizens to purchase Health Insurance on threat of Imprisonment & Fine just isn't right. You're entitled to your opinion but i don't see this as being American. I do feel it's Unconstitutional.

 

[Common Sense]

well it all goes down to everything in your list is a privilege not a right. being that health care has already been determined to be a right not a privilege, that blows that argument out of the water. youre probably of the same mindset that wants to outlaw abortion. so you want to government to be able to force someone to have a child that they may or may not want, because life is "sacred", but you dont want to protect that life with health care, because somewhere in translation, life is no longer sacred.

education is a right and we mandate taxes for that, if health care is a right, then why cant we mandate taxes for that as well? what about roads are the use of roads a right or a privilege? should we make all roads toll roads and have to pay to use them? what about the fire and police? are those services a right or a privilege? should we make all citizens pay to use those services as well.

i can just see that happening. your house is burning and FD shows up, asked if you have insurance or can pay the bill out of pocket. if you respond no, then oh well your house burns up. same with police, lets say someone breaks into your house and steals everything, the police show up, as for proof of insurance, you provide none and they walk away without helping you.

do i need to keep going on?

 

[WillowTree]

As the year winds down and we'll have a brand new year soon, my New Year's wish is that we have elected a Congress who understands and values the kind of freedom our Founders intended this nation to pioneer and emulate.

Never before had there been any serious notion that people have God given unalienable rights that should be inviolate. Never before had there been any serious concept that people did not need a king or other government authority to govern them and, when their unalienable rights were secured, they would govern themselves more competently than any governing authority could do.

Let's start with repealing Obamacare and try freedom in its place. Next lets start reversing other destructive, freedom destroying initiatives that some in our government have endorsed or intend for our 'benefit'. (Mostly their benefit of course.)

Let's learn again what a government of the people, for the people, and by the people really means.

. . . .As a small business owner who just got hit with a $3600 insurance premium hike for 2011 and who will be paying (at a minimum) $177,500 over the next ten years just for the “privilege” of having one family covered with insurance, you can be assured that my points are more than mere rhetorical ones. If I had my druthers, I would have a catastrophic-only plan that covers emergencies and life-threatening illnesses, and pay the rest out of pocket. I’d probably save well over $125,000 in the next ten years with a plan like that—if one existed.

The problem is, a plan like that doesn’t exist…can’t exist. Why? The government bureaucrats won’t allow it. In our state, there are, by law (or regulation), only three types of insurance, provided by three insurers. It is a closed market scheme. In addition, let’s just say (for the sake of discussion) that a plan like that did exist in the next state over and I wanted to purchase it. I couldn’t do that either—because the government bureaucrats have created an artificial wall that won’t allow insurance to be bought across state lines. You see, in this simple and real small-business example, already government is the problem—and we’re paying the price.

Last year, when Nancy Pelosi went on her lunatic rant about insurance carriers being “immoral”, it was the epitome of hypocrisy—sort of like the Devil calling demons evil for doing what their master taught them to do. [Too harsh?...What is it then, if not evil, for those who purposely unleash a disease to also claim to be the cure?] People who claim that insurance companies have monopolies don’t realize that it is Congress that created the monopolies to begin with. That is why Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, and the rest of their ilk, have been so disingenuous in shoving ObamaCare up America’s rectum. . . .
Repeal ObamaCare. Then, Let’s Do Something Really Radical…Try Freedom. | RedState

I don't think it will be necessary to repeal it. The Dummies in the wh keep handing out waivers cause they know it's a shitty deal. It'll die a shitty death, and it a DNR.

 

[Foxfyre]

well it all goes down to everything in your list is a privilege not a right. being that health care has already been determined to be a right not a privilege, that blows that argument out of the water. youre probably of the same mindset that wants to outlaw abortion. so you want to government to be able to force someone to have a child that they may or may not want, because life is "sacred", but you dont want to protect that life with health care, because somewhere in translation, life is no longer sacred.

education is a right and we mandate taxes for that, if health care is a right, then why cant we mandate taxes for that as well? what about roads are the use of roads a right or a privilege? should we make all roads toll roads and have to pay to use them? what about the fire and police? are those services a right or a privilege? should we make all citizens pay to use those services as well.

i can just see that happening. your house is burning and FD shows up, asked if you have insurance or can pay the bill out of pocket. if you respond no, then oh well your house burns up. same with police, lets say someone breaks into your house and steals everything, the police show up, as for proof of insurance, you provide none and they walk away without helping you.

do i need to keep going on?

Show me in the Constitution where education is a right. Yes, I have the right to seek an education as much as the next person has that right, but I have no right to demand that somebody else provide me with one.

Show me in the Constitution where healthcare is a right. Yes I have the right to seek healthcare as much as the next person has that right, but I have no right to demand that somebody else provide it to me.

For that matter show me in the Constitution where housing, food, clothing, a job, transportation, or just free money is a right. All are just as necessary as anything else that is necessary, and I have the right to lawfully seek them as much as anybody else has that right, but I do not have the right to demand that you provide them for me.

Rights include non interference in our pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. Rights do not include my right to take what you worked for or otherwise lawfully obtained just because I want it or even need it.

Do I need to go on?

 

[Foxfyre]

I've never understood why having health insurance was tied to your job anyway. That's not freedom. That places you under the thumb of your employer, health insurance wise. Like the guy in the quote. If given the choice, he wouldn't offer health insurance except for things that were catastrophic in nature. Which means that any illness his employees contracted would end up as a catastrophe because they couldn't get care until it was.

You've hit on what I think should be a key component of true healthcare reform. I don't know how it could be best accomplished, but somehow I want incentive provided to get out of the business based group insurance mentality and go with a system in which everybody owned their own policy that could go with them wherever they go. We might still need groups to diffuse the risk among a large number of people to help keep costs down, but portability should be the norm.

And I still can't see why assigned risk pools for difficult or impossible to insure people wouldn't work for health insurance just as it works for general liability, work comp, and other necessary insurance for those who have for whatever reason become mostly uninsurable.

 

[Common Sense]

read this website before you go spouting off about what is constitutional and what is not. there are many exact right that are not listed in the constitution.
Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Have you ever heard someone say, "That's unconstitutional!" or "That's my constitutional right!" and wondered if they were right? You might be surprised how often people get it wrong. You might also be surprised how often people get it right. Your best defense against misconception is reading and knowing your Constitution.
A lot of people presume a lot of things about the Constitution. Some are true, some are not. This page will detail some of the things that people think are in the Constitution, but are not.
One critique of this page is that it is full of nit-picks. Slavery, for example, may not be "in" the original Constitution, but it is in the original Constitution — the word may not have been there, but the concept was. This is absolutely true. But by studying the words and coming to know them intimately, we gain a better understanding of our history and how some arguments about the Constitution endure.

The Air Force
Congressional Districts
The Electoral College
Executive Order
Executive Privilege
Freedom of Expression
(Absolute) Freedom of Speech and Press
"From each according to his ability..."
God
Immigration
Impeachment means removal from office
Innocent until proven guilty
It's a free country
Judicial Review
Jury of Peers
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"
Marriage
Martial Law
No taxation without representation
Number of Justices in the Supreme Court
"Of the people, by the people, for the people"
Paper Money
Political Parties
Primary Elections
Qualifications for Judges
The right to privacy
The right to travel
The right to vote
The separation of church and state
The Separation of Powers Clause
Slavery
"We hold these truths to be self-evident
Constraints on the people
Education
Student, Animal, Gay, Lesbian Rights
The word "democracy"
Abortion
Age discrimination
Capitalism

many rights are determined through interpretation of the Constitution by the courts.

 

[Common Sense]

since none of that is in the constitution, lets eliminate it all.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Constitution along with the Bill of Rights and other various ratified amendments establishes the powers that the Federal Government and its parts shall have and shall not have and assigns everything else to the states.

There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to take property from one citizen and give it to another even with due process of law. All of our Congresses and all of our Presidents understood and respected that up to FDR, but there has been steady erosion of that principle since that time resulting in steady erosion of our liberties.

We need to get back to it.

 

[Common Sense]

The Constitution along with the Bill of Rights and other various ratified amendments establishes the powers that the Federal Government and its parts shall have and shall not have and assigns everything else to the states.

There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to take property from one citizen and give it to another even with due process of law. All of our Congresses and all of our Presidents understood and respected that up to FDR, but there has been steady erosion of that principle since that time resulting in steady erosion of our liberties.

We need to get back to it.

ever heard of imminent domain?

 

[Foxfyre]

The Constitution along with the Bill of Rights and other various ratified amendments establishes the powers that the Federal Government and its parts shall have and shall not have and assigns everything else to the states.

There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to take property from one citizen and give it to another even with due process of law. All of our Congresses and all of our Presidents understood and respected that up to FDR, but there has been steady erosion of that principle since that time resulting in steady erosion of our liberties.

We need to get back to it.

ever heard of imminent domain?

Yes I have. And the fact that I do changes absolutely nothing I have said.

 

[RDD_1210]

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......straight from the Declaration of Independence declaring the inalienable rights of our nation. The very first word, "Life" should be proof enough that healthcare is indeed a right of every citizen of this country.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt. How much would that be exacerbated by insuring everybody in that way and how many would you drive out of the healthcare provider business altogether once you stripped them of most or all of their profits?

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

Medicare is the most popular program in American history .. because it works. It's the only thing keeping millions of seniors alive.

Are there issues and problems that need to be corrected .. of course there are. But the infrastructure is already in place and there are no problems with it that cannot be fixed.

You doubt if I remember when the status quo drove the system? What do you think is driving it now?

Who do you think wrote the damn bill?

The status quo is driving American healthcare right into the ground and millions of Americans bankrupt .. which is why healthcare was near the top of campaign issues even before Obama was elected.

.. and in case you don't remember, Richard Nixon proposed a better and more liberal bill than what OBama passed in 1974.

 

[Revere]

Rights don't obligate other people to pay for them.

Everyone in America gets health care.

 

[Revere]

Medicare and Medicaid are the "status quo" and they're insolvent.

 

[RDD_1210]

Rights don't obligate other people to pay for them.

Everyone in America gets health care.

I know how this game works. Show me in the constitution where it says that your wallet is more important than someones well-being and the foundation of the Declaration of Independence.

 

[Foxfyre]

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......straight from the Declaration of Independence declaring the inalienable rights of our nation. The very first word, "Life" should be proof enough that healthcare is indeed a right of every citizen of this country.

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

 

[Revere]

My wallet is not yours to open up and empty for the benefit of someone else.

 

[RDD_1210]

My wallet is not yours to open up and empty for the benefit of someone else.

Actually, it is.

 

[Revere]

No, it's not.

Government doesn't give everyone all the healthcare they want. There is no point in destroying a system that works for most Americans for the promises of people who have accomplised nothing.