Let's address the REAL issue.

[PredFan]

The weapon of choice or ability has nothing to do with the impulse to commit these horrible and unconscionable crimes.

So one more time:

To assume that it is necessary to have firearms of any type in order to commit mass murder is ludicrous. It can be done sabotaging mass transportion, with poisonous mushrooms or other toxins introduced into the food or water supply, with arson, flammable fuels, explosive gasses, nerve agents, C4, dynamite, molotov cocktails, or in the case of a recent incident in China, with a knife. etc. etc. etc.

So in this thread, let's respect the focus of the OP, set aside the 'how' for now, and focus on the 'why'.

It isn't as sexy a subject as the same old platitudes about gun control, but it is interesting to a lot of us.

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

I think some focus on guns because that is the politically corrrect target. Much less so are other issues such as pretty much kicking God out of the schools, downgrading Christmas to a totally secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, violent rap music, a culture in which it is socially dangerous for teachers to even touch, much less hug, a student, a society that drugs kids rather than deal with the occasionally hyperactive student, or even such seemingly benign things as our chemically altered diet.

Again our history is checkered with accounts of the rare serial killers and deranged maniac who goes berserk and creates mayhem. But these mass shootings lately seem to be something very different, carefully planned out and executed.

And that's where I put the blame on the media/ By relentlessly showing the who, what, where, and how, it is causing these killings to escalate.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is a combo of many things that caused this asshole to snap.

He has been a weirdo for years going back to his school years where he wouldn't associate with his peers. His loner life might've made him more mad and more crazy.

Add violent movies, music, video games and the recent shootings in Colorado and Oregon giving him the idea to be like them.

Then add his parents divorced 3 years ago, so he probably hates them...he hated everyone as a loner with mental problems.

The key piece to this was his mother. She was stupid allowing her mentally unstable, loner son to go shoot up the firing range with her. She had the weapons that he could use in this mass killing. If she properly secured these weapons, he might've been stopped or delayed enough to question his own thoughts.

He was denied buying a gun at a store 4-5 days prior the shooting, so he used his mother's arsenal. She should've known she had a problem on her hands with him and that any gun in his hands was idiotic and dangerous.

She may have figured he was just mental enough to finally kill dad ya reckon ? Hey adults are using kids for political and diabolocal plotted footballs these days every where you look, so this wouldnot surprise me a bit these days about what parents are doing with their kids.

Didn't a woman get caught using her kids to steal for her as shown on that shocking video show, and didn't a man just get caught using his son to lure unsuspecting friends so he could molest them, and didn't he write a handbook on that also ? Havn't we had women using their daughters as prostitutes, in order to get them money for crack and other drugs ?

This boy may have been expected to live out part of his mothers vengence for her, but then it backfired because he may have loved his father more, so he killed her, and then went the way of the media exploited star seeking of killers, to finish himself and the poor souls for whom he took with him in the end off.

And you also raise some important considerations that we can only think about at this time. The financial affluence of the family, whether parents single, divorced, married and together does not seem to be a significant factor. There are incidents of bullying reported in many of their histories, but most of us have experienced cruelty at the hands of classmates and yet mass murderers are rare. These are not events where the shooter just 'snapped'. Almost all of the incidents were planned out over weeks or months. The Columbine shooters, for instance, are said to have planned that massacre for an entire year before they did it. Timothy McVeigh had a hobby of making agribombs in his AOL profile prior to the OKC bombing. These days there are often hints that people miss on Twitter or Facebook or other social media.

So there doesn't seem to be any common link so far as I can see. But obviously there is a uniform manifestation of a kind of vengeance coupled with a sociopathic temperament.

 

[beagle9]

Sadly there will be two evils perpetratd here, the one where this cat done evil unto these people, and the other where this nation will have done evil by targetting guns as the culprit, and then trying to take them out of the hands of the good people/citizens.

 

[PredFan]

I think we can all agree that these people are sociopaths. I'm sure that as long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been sociopaths. I wonder of an increase in population results in an increase in the number of sociopathic personalities, and leads to the reason these incidents seem to be increasing.

 

[beagle9]

The reason that the trails run cold on this sort of stuff, is because the trails cross over political landscapes that are attached to agenda's, where as within these agenda's certain things are ignored or tolerated in the attempt to get at the goals of the bigger agenda's, in which are far more important than the casualties we are experiencing now over time.

We are in expendable mode in this nation it seems, and in this mode "groups" are trying to exploit or worse ignore certain things, in order to get to the bigger agenda's that they have in the workings for their over all goals sought after in their agenda's.

 

[beagle9]

I think we can all agree that these people are sociopaths. I'm sure that as long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been sociopaths. I wonder of an increase in population results in an increase in the number of sociopathic personalities, and leads to the reason these incidents seem to be increasing.

What is or becomes the lethal cocktail that creates the sociopath over time, I mean they say we are all born equal and are innocent little children when we are born right ? So how do we get these percentages into the numbers in which they are getting into now, and what are some of the things as is writen in the OP, that are defining leads into the right direction or puts us square onto the trail that we are suppose to be on ?

 

[PredFan]

I think we can all agree that these people are sociopaths. I'm sure that as long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been sociopaths. I wonder of an increase in population results in an increase in the number of sociopathic personalities, and leads to the reason these incidents seem to be increasing.

What is or becomes the lethal cocktail that creates the sociopath over time, I mean they say we are all born equal and are innocent little children when we are born right ? So how do we get these percentages into the numbers in which they are getting into now, and what are some of the things as is writen in the OP, that are defining leads into the right direction or puts us square onto the trail that we are suppose to be on ?

What we need is a psychologist on this board.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

Perhaps.

But that leads to the question of how are the media to be compelled to not ‘glorify’ criminals without violating the First Amendment.

We act as if the media do this unilaterally, when in fact they’re only responding to ratings and the public’s desire to know the gory details.

I think that if we reported the story, but left out the killer's name, it would go a long way toward preventing us from inspiring the next killer. Meanwhile, we need to find out what is causing this.

Again, perhaps – but only by the media’s own volition; as there will always be media outlets that will report suspects’ name along with other details.

However difficult, the only feasible solution is gaining a greater understanding as to what contributes to mental disorders compelling people to act out in such a violent manner, and find remedies accordingly.

 

[Foxfyre]

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

I think some focus on guns because that is the politically corrrect target. Much less so are other issues such as pretty much kicking God out of the schools, downgrading Christmas to a totally secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, violent rap music, a culture in which it is socially dangerous for teachers to even touch, much less hug, a student, a society that drugs kids rather than deal with the occasionally hyperactive student, or even such seemingly benign things as our chemically altered diet.

Again our history is checkered with accounts of the rare serial killers and deranged maniac who goes berserk and creates mayhem. But these mass shootings lately seem to be something very different, carefully planned out and executed.

And that's where I put the blame on the media/ By relentlessly showing the who, what, where, and how, it is causing these killings to escalate.

I don't know that it is the fact that the event is covered per se. We have always had media coverage of such horrendous things. Not the blow by blow watching it all unfold and changing 'facts' that we have now, but there has always been coverage.

What I think has changed is the focus on the killer himself or themselves. He is never described as evil or hateful or a terrible person. He is portrayed as a person and it almost seems like they struggle to find reasons to justify his behavior and almost vindicate him in the process. And it is THAT which I think is a very destructive thing to do. I think most of these people are seeking vengeance and feel no remorse at that unconscionable things they do. But I think the idea that people will finally understand why they are so angry is a very attractive thing.

George Zimmerman has received far more negative press and demonization than has the shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary.

 

[saveliberty]

I think we can all agree that these people are sociopaths. I'm sure that as long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been sociopaths. I wonder of an increase in population results in an increase in the number of sociopathic personalities, and leads to the reason these incidents seem to be increasing.

What is or becomes the lethal cocktail that creates the sociopath over time, I mean they say we are all born equal and are innocent little children when we are born right ? So how do we get these percentages into the numbers in which they are getting into now, and what are some of the things as is writen in the OP, that are defining leads into the right direction or puts us square onto the trail that we are suppose to be on ?

What we need is a psychologist on this board.

Probably is one, just smart enough not to let us crazies know.

Laws are needed to require disclosure on violent intentions of those in treatment.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The weapon of choice or ability has nothing to do with the impulse to commit these horrible and unconscionable crimes.

So one more time:

To assume that it is necessary to have firearms of any type in order to commit mass murder is ludicrous. It can be done sabotaging mass transportion, with poisonous mushrooms or other toxins introduced into the food or water supply, with arson, flammable fuels, explosive gasses, nerve agents, C4, dynamite, molotov cocktails, or in the case of a recent incident in China, with a knife. etc. etc. etc.

So in this thread, let's respect the focus of the OP, set aside the 'how' for now, and focus on the 'why'.

It isn't as sexy a subject as the same old platitudes about gun control, but it is interesting to a lot of us.

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

I think some focus on guns because that is the politically corrrect target. Much less so are other issues such as pretty much kicking God out of the schools, downgrading Christmas to a totally secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, violent rap music, a culture in which it is socially dangerous for teachers to even touch, much less hug, a student, a society that drugs kids rather than deal with the occasionally hyperactive student, or even such seemingly benign things as our chemically altered diet.

Again our history is checkered with accounts of the rare serial killers and deranged maniac who goes berserk and creates mayhem. But these mass shootings lately seem to be something very different, carefully planned out and executed.

Pity you decided to not contribute intelligently to a thread trying very hard to remain intelligent.

This tragedy has nothing to do with political correctness, kicking god out of schools, downgrading Christmas to a secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, or violent rap music; injecting the poisonous political agenda of the social right into this discussion isn't going to resolve the issue.

 

[Foxfyre]

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

I think some focus on guns because that is the politically corrrect target. Much less so are other issues such as pretty much kicking God out of the schools, downgrading Christmas to a totally secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, violent rap music, a culture in which it is socially dangerous for teachers to even touch, much less hug, a student, a society that drugs kids rather than deal with the occasionally hyperactive student, or even such seemingly benign things as our chemically altered diet.

Again our history is checkered with accounts of the rare serial killers and deranged maniac who goes berserk and creates mayhem. But these mass shootings lately seem to be something very different, carefully planned out and executed.

Pity you decided to not contribute intelligently to a thread trying very hard to remain intelligent.

This tragedy has nothing to do with political correctness, kicking god out of schools, downgrading Christmas to a secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, or violent rap music; injecting the poisonous political agenda of the social right into this discussion isn't going to resolve the issue.

I inerjected no political agenda whatsoever. You, however did.

 

[saveliberty]

Pity you decided to not contribute intelligently to a thread trying very hard to remain intelligent.

This tragedy has nothing to do with political correctness, kicking god out of schools, downgrading Christmas to a secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, or violent rap music; injecting the poisonous political agenda of the social right into this discussion isn't going to resolve the issue.

These are all factors to some degree, ignoring them is not an intelligent choice. You lower the intelligence of any thread you enter.

 

[PredFan]

The reason that the trails run cold on this sort of stuff, is because the trails cross over political landscapes that are attached to agenda's, where as within these agenda's certain things are ignored or tolerated in the attempt to get at the goals of the bigger agenda's, in which are far more important than the casualties we are experiencing now over time.

We are in expendable mode in this nation it seems, and in this mode "groups" are trying to exploit or worse ignore certain things, in order to get to the bigger agenda's that they have in the workings for their over all goals sought after in their agenda's.

You know what? I think I need to add "politics" to the list of possible causes.

 

[PredFan]

I think we can all agree that these people are sociopaths. I'm sure that as long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been sociopaths. I wonder of an increase in population results in an increase in the number of sociopathic personalities, and leads to the reason these incidents seem to be increasing.

What is or becomes the lethal cocktail that creates the sociopath over time, I mean they say we are all born equal and are innocent little children when we are born right ? So how do we get these percentages into the numbers in which they are getting into now, and what are some of the things as is writen in the OP, that are defining leads into the right direction or puts us square onto the trail that we are suppose to be on ?

Ah, the question of nature vs nurture. I think it's a little of both.

I believe that IF we are to stop these killings or reduce them, we need to find out the cause. Wish we had a psychologist on the USMB.

 

[jillian]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

does culture of violence include people who think they live in the wild west and want to go in, guns blazing, and kill all the bad guys?

if it does, then i'll say the culture of violence is a part of the problem.
number 3, number 3, number 4, nuimber 5, number 6, and number 8 are irrelevant.

now add... bullying.... (maybe not in this case, i don't know... but generally), lack of support systems for kids who don't fit the mold...

but you can't kill 26 people in minutes with a pocket knife or a normal handgun.

 

[PredFan]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

does culture of violence include people who think they live in the wild west and want to go in, guns blazing, and kill all the bad guys?

if it does, then i'll say the culture of violence is a part of the problem.
number 3, number 3, number 4, nuimber 5, number 6, and number 8 are irrelevant.

now add... bullying.... (maybe not in this case, i don't know... but generally), lack of support systems for kids who don't fit the mold...

but you can't kill 26 people in minutes with a pocket knife or a normal handgun.

Hey idiot, there are a dozen threads on gun control already, take that stupidity somewhere else. This is a discussion on "why", guns are about "how". If that isn't too difficult for you to handle and you want to contribute, fine. Otherwise take your gun control nonsense to the appropriate thread.

 

[NLT]

The idea that video games lent to this guy's mentality is nonsense. A video game causing violent behavior is more a reflection of the users detachment from reality than the content of the game.

It's just a game, I don't have any issues playing them.

My son and his friends have been playing video games since about 6-8 yrs old. Not one of them have ever been in trouble or have acted out violently. Like you said Bob, it is a reflection of detachment from reality.

 

[Pogo]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

does culture of violence include people who think they live in the wild west and want to go in, guns blazing, and kill all the bad guys?

if it does, then i'll say the culture of violence is a part of the problem.
number 3, number 3, number 4, nuimber 5, number 6, and number 8 are irrelevant.

now add... bullying.... (maybe not in this case, i don't know... but generally), lack of support systems for kids who don't fit the mold...

but you can't kill 26 people in minutes with a pocket knife or a normal handgun.

Hey idiot, there are a dozen threads on gun control already, take that stupidity somewhere else. This is a discussion on "why", guns are about "how". If that isn't too difficult for you to handle and you want to contribute, fine. Otherwise take your gun control nonsense to the appropriate thread.

I assume that last is attempted sarcasm...? Needs work. You have to provide a clue that you're being facetious.

FWIW Jillian's exactly right

 

[saveliberty]

How is Jillian right? The time frame was 10 minutes. Revolvers can use quick loaders.