Let us argue about abortion

[Procrustes Stretched]

What have the pro abortion crowd at Slate been worrying about lately? They have decided to admit the pro life crowd is right, and declare that it doesn't matter if abortion is murder because the babies aren't important.

Here’s the complicated reality in which we live: All life is not equal. That’s a difficult thing for liberals like me to talk about, lest we wind up looking like death-panel-loving, kill-your-grandma-and-your-precious-baby storm troopers. Yet a fetus can be a human life without having the same rights as the woman in whose body it resides. She’s the boss. Her life and what is right for her circumstances and her health should automatically trump the rights of the non-autonomous entity inside of her. Always.

So what if abortion ends life? - Salon.com

a plant has life. a fetus is not a fully developed human being. it's not fully human

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Threads dealing with this issue are both interesting and sad. Particularly when you see the insignificance the pro-choice crowd places on human life....The coldness they display at times, is downright chilling.

Sadly, there are some seriously sick and twisted people in this world.

Just sayin'.

no one likes abortion...the potential of the fetus as a fully developed human being is haunting, but...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A kidney is not a "life".

Neither is a formless mass of cells. But you seem to like those an awful lot.

An unborn child is a complete individual human being.

At what point does this come to pass?

It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins.

Okay, I'm not going any farther than this. You apparently need to learn some biology 101.

a human baby when born has one natural right...to die without the help of outside forces

 

[Wicked Jester]

I think discussing the value of life is difficult, the article is right, pro-choice people( at least the honest ones) understand that a fetus is a human life, they(me included) simply place more value on the mothers life, than the fetus'.

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

Nor will it ever form into a living, breathing, eating, thinking human being....The forming begins at the moment of conception.....It IS human life.

 

[Noomi]

What have the pro abortion crowd at Slate been worrying about lately? They have decided to admit the pro life crowd is right, and declare that it doesn't matter if abortion is murder because the babies aren't important.

Here’s the complicated reality in which we live: All life is not equal. That’s a difficult thing for liberals like me to talk about, lest we wind up looking like death-panel-loving, kill-your-grandma-and-your-precious-baby storm troopers. Yet a fetus can be a human life without having the same rights as the woman in whose body it resides. She’s the boss. Her life and what is right for her circumstances and her health should automatically trump the rights of the non-autonomous entity inside of her. Always.

So what if abortion ends life? - Salon.com

"A fetus can be a human life without having the same rights as the woman in whose body it resides".

This is a true statement. Do you have the same rights as a 10 year old? No. Do you have the same rights as a person on death row? No.
Even if fetuses were people, they still wouldn't have the same rights.

 

[Noomi]

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

Nor will it ever form into a living, breathing, eating, thinking human being....The forming begins at the moment of conception.....It IS human life.

Human life at the expense of another person, with only the potential to be born.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

If an unborn fetus were a complete individual human being, it wouldn't require a biological link to an actual complete human being to survive. If it were complete it could go wireless.

Which is why progressives have no problem with killing young children. You won't ever see them get worked up over children dying. It's always a price they're willing to pay. They wouldn't care if gunmen walked into every school and stated they were targeting unarmed schools before shooting all the kids down...they still would refuse to allow us to protect our children.

So you can see, the age has nothing to do with it.

You're rather moronic if you think any political group in this country believes children dying is acceptable. The fact that you even went to such terrible and ridiculous extremes reveals your blindness.

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

Nor will it ever form into a living, breathing, eating, thinking human being....The forming begins at the moment of conception.....It IS human life.

You can claim the forming begins when the sperm and egg begin to mature. Really, what other American rights do you feel should be bestowed upon a 2 celled clump? Do fetuses have freedom of speech? How bout the right to bear arms? What if someone steals from a fetus like when there are twins and one takes all the nutrients in the womb? Should the little fetus be able to sue the bigger one? What are your criteria for defining a human life? The idea of conception seems rather arbitrary.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Your kidney is not human life.

Nor will it ever form into a living, breathing, eating, thinking human being....The forming begins at the moment of conception.....It IS human life.

Human life at the expense of another person, with only the potential to be born.

"at the EXPENSE of ANOTHER person"

So, you fully acknowledge that the fetus IS a person (completely condradicting what you said in another thread, btw)...And fully acknowledge that a fetus is just an EXPENSE......Basically nothing more than a lil' pain in the ass, and inconvenience.

Thanks for playin', and fully proving the sickness of so many pro-choicers.

 

[zeke]

All you suppossed baby lovers do realize that the only women having abortions are women who vote Democratic. And if forced to have babies they don't want, they will raise those kids they don't want on welfare and teach them to always vote for the Dems for Handouts. And rethugs will never be able to win an election again that they can't steal.

Why you Rethugs want that to happen?

 

[zeke]

Nor will it ever form into a living, breathing, eating, thinking human being....The forming begins at the moment of conception.....It IS human life.

Human life at the expense of another person, with only the potential to be born.

"at the EXPENSE of ANOTHER person"

So, you fully acknowledge that the fetus IS a person (completely condradicting what you said in another thread, btw)...And fully acknowledge that a fetus is just an EXPENSE......Basically nothing more than a lil' pain in the ass, and inconvenience.

Thanks for playin', and fully proving the sickness of so many pro-choicers.

Hypocrit rethugs. You fuking asshole rethugs are not worried about first graders getting gunned down in their classroom. But somehow you rethugs are worried some Democrat voting woman is getting an abortion.

Why can't rethugs tell the truth about anything? Hey, you rethugs worry about stopping YOUR women from having an abortion and leave the rest of the worlds women alone.
Is is the law you know.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Liberals would like to see an end to the practice of abortion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let us argue about abortion

Which wouldn’t be possible without privacy rights.

That the individual might decide the matter for himself free from government interference is a good thing.

So you maintain that it's each individual's right to decide whether or not they should kill someone else or not, and that decision is protected by their right to privacy?

That's scary.

You're assuming as fact that a 2 cell zygote is 'someone'. It is 2 cells of human DNA.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Can you prove she is doing it of her own free will?

Didn't think so.

I think the witnessed consent form is sufficient proof.

You must be used to be wrong by now.

False premise. She doesn't have to prove that. You have to prove she isn't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do you have any evidence I am not?

The fact that you want someone to play the role of salon whoever over here.

I'll argue with you. You invented a false premise, i.e., that if someone agrees that the fetus is human life they have agreed with the pro-lifers.

There are hundreds of comments on that particular blog, many of which are being moderated in an attempt to hide the fact that far less than 80% of the people in the US support abortion under most circumstances.

Do you want to explain how agreeing that a fetus is a human life is not agreeing that a fetus is a human life?

I explained it below. The tactic you use of trying to make everyone you disagree with restate their positions multiple times is very unproductive.

 

[Katzndogz]

All you suppossed baby lovers do realize that the only women having abortions are women who vote Democratic. And if forced to have babies they don't want, they will raise those kids they don't want on welfare and teach them to always vote for the Dems for Handouts. And rethugs will never be able to win an election again that they can't steal.

Why you Rethugs want that to happen?

Very true. Conservatives have abortions but not at the same rate. Liberal women have more abortions than they do babies. So let them abort themselves into oblivion. Just pay for it themselves.

Conservatives should take a lesson from Europe where the differing birthrates are going to put muslims in the majority in very few generations. Conservatives shouldn't try to stop liberals from killing their children. That should be encouraged. But they should pay for it themselves.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Your kidney is not human life.

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

A 2 celled human zygote is not a complete human being.

 

[jknowgood]

I say when a woman has an abortion she should also be fixed so she cannot get pregnant again. If she thinks of her baby as an inconvience, and is willing to kill it, what kind of mother would she be anyway?

 

[Underhill]

Your kidney is not human life.

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

That may be true in later stages, but it certainly isn't in early pregnancy.

How do you anti abortion people feel about the day after pill?

 

[koshergrl]

Threads dealing with this issue are both interesting and sad. Particularly when you see the insignificance the pro-choice crowd places on human life....The coldness they display at times, is downright chilling.

Sadly, there are some seriously sick and twisted people in this world.

Just sayin'.

no one likes abortion...the potential of the fetus as a fully developed human being is haunting, but...

"let's kill it anyway!"

It's haunting because you know you're committing a crime against humanity. But that's a small thing to you ppl.

 

[koshergrl]

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

A 2 celled human zygote is not a complete human being.

It's dna seems to think it is.