Lady takes her son to the gun range and then commits Murder Suicide

[Skylar]

Well since I didn't post that (you did), that's a huge fuckin' strawman.

Go re-read my posts and quit melting down like a Rump doll when you do it.

Gun culture. Culture value. umm ok

Wow. You just completely shit yourself, didn't you.

Every one of the batshit claims you tried to project onto Pogo came out of your own head. You couldn't make even one stick.

he SPECIFICALLY said he blamed a culture value

--- which is not an object, inanimate, innate or in-anything.

Yes, and I had moved on from that. I will ask again

No you accused her of blaming an animate object. And when challenged to back the claim with an actual quote....

....you fled. Your strawman collapsed.

Then you tried to push your insane 'the gun made her do it' batshit. And failed again. As you could cite nothing to back that rhetorical load of horseshit either.

Do we even need to be here for this? Because you seem to be taking both sides of your argument.

 

[Pogo]

Well since I didn't post that (you did), that's a huge fuckin' strawman.

Go re-read my posts and quit melting down like a Rump doll when you do it.

Gun culture. Culture value. umm ok

Wow. You just completely shit yourself, didn't you.

Every one of the batshit claims you tried to project onto Pogo came out of your own head. You couldn't make even one stick.

he SPECIFICALLY said he blamed a culture value

--- which is not an object, inanimate, innate or in-anything.

Yes, and I had moved on from that. I will ask again
How did a belief, attitude or behavior about guns drive her to kill herself and her kid?

....... aaaand right back to the same Strawman. All righty then....

 

[Indeependent]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

She would have stabbed or drowned them if she didn't have a gun.
Sick is sick, regardless of the medium of delivery.

 

[Pogo]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

She would have stabbed or drowned them if she didn't have a gun.
Sick is sick, regardless of the medium of delivery.

Ah NOW we finally get to the issue.

"Would have stabbed or drowned him"? Not necessarily. That would have taken more planning, more time, more logistics, all of which present more opportunities for reflection. Pointing a gun at somebody (or at oneself) takes an instant. She might have gone that route absent a firearm, but the chances she would either fail or back out, increase.

In this case her note indicates it was premeditated, but the firearm made it ruthlessly efficient, quicker and easier than drowning or stabbing would have.

She was sick, in multiple ways. As is a culture that celebrates death and violence and fantasizes about shoot-em-ups and makes going to a "shooting range" some kind of normal thing to do.

Thank you for at least getting the point.

 

[Indeependent]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

She would have stabbed or drowned them if she didn't have a gun.
Sick is sick, regardless of the medium of delivery.

Ah NOW we finally get to the issue. Not necessarily. That would have taken more planning, more time, more logistics, all of which present more opportunities for reflection. Pointing a gun at somebody (or at oneself) takes an instant.

In this case her note indicates it was premeditated, but the firearm made it ruthlessly efficient, quicker and easier than drowning or stabbing would have.

She was sick, in multiple ways. As is a culture that celebrates death and violence and fantasizes about shoot-em-ups.

Thank you for at least getting the point.

Unfortunately, a person with paranoid voices in their heads WILL get the "job" done.
We have already seen mothers drowning their children.
Guns aren't always so easy to wield as many suspect; one blowback to her jaw and she would have been out cold.

 

[Preacher]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do. How about blame the mental illness folks for not making sure she was on the damn meds,she probably knew she couldn't legally own a gun but what ya gonna do force gun ranges to do a background check on everyone? Shit happens.

 

[Pogo]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

She would have stabbed or drowned them if she didn't have a gun.
Sick is sick, regardless of the medium of delivery.

Ah NOW we finally get to the issue. Not necessarily. That would have taken more planning, more time, more logistics, all of which present more opportunities for reflection. Pointing a gun at somebody (or at oneself) takes an instant.

In this case her note indicates it was premeditated, but the firearm made it ruthlessly efficient, quicker and easier than drowning or stabbing would have.

She was sick, in multiple ways. As is a culture that celebrates death and violence and fantasizes about shoot-em-ups.

Thank you for at least getting the point.

Unfortunately, a person with paranoid voices in their heads WILL get the "job" done.
We have already seen mothers drowning their children.
Guns aren't always so easy to wield as many suspect; one blowback to her jaw and she would have been out cold.

Perhaps, but assuming one can handle the firearm -- a safe assumption since they were at a shooting range and prolly not for the first time -- a gun makes the whole thing quick, easy and instantaneous. That's exactly the issue with suicides.

That's not to conclude "therefore we should destroy/ban all guns" or anything like that (before somebody takes what they think is a loose ball and runs for their own fantasized end zone). It simply calls into question the wisdom of fomenting the cultural value of gun worship that lies at the bottom of it all.

 

[Pogo]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do.

You go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Yes we gave a gun culture.
We also have an automobile culture, a sports culture, a pothead culture, an alcohol culture and a lot of other cultures. This is America, the land of many shit to do.

 

[Preacher]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do.

You go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

Do what clown? I am not blaming the gun. Its just a tool. She just as easily could have mowed down a crowd of people with a car because she was mentally ill.

 

[Pogo]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do.

You go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

Do what clown? I am not blaming the gun. Its just a tool. She just as easily could have mowed down a crowd of people with a car because she was mentally ill.

Then why did you post what you did?

 

[Pogo]

Yes we gave a gun culture.
We also have an automobile culture, a sports culture, a pothead culture, an alcohol culture and a lot of other cultures. This is America, the land of many shit to do.

Rock 'n' roll / jazz culture... celebrity culture.... fast food/obesity culture.... many things, some positive, others, not so much.

Only one of them produces mass carnage though.

 

[Preacher]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do.

You go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

Do what clown? I am not blaming the gun. Its just a tool. She just as easily could have mowed down a crowd of people with a car because she was mentally ill.

Then why did you post what you did?

You obviously misread what I posted or just don't understand what I meant.

 

[Pogo]

She was mentally ill so lets blame the gun for what HER mental illness made her do.

You go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.

Do what clown? I am not blaming the gun. Its just a tool. She just as easily could have mowed down a crowd of people with a car because she was mentally ill.

Then why did you post what you did?

You obviously misread what I posted or just don't understand what I meant.

--- and that's why I just asked about it.

No answer then?

 

[2aguy]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

Who says that...we have two gun cultures....

We have the law abiding gun culture that uses guns for hunting, self defense, collecting, competition and tinkering....like with old cars.....

then we have a criminal sub culture that uses guns for crime.......

357,000,000 guns in private hands.

Less than 8,124 used to commit murder. (2014)

505 accidental gun deaths.

that means 356,991371 guns....owned by law abiding citizens is the dominant gun culture in the United States......

Can you understand how different those numbers are.......or are you as blind as all the other gun grabbers?

 

[2aguy]

Here you go..some truth, facts and reality.....

from the CDC table 10, 2013....

Gun Suicide: 21,175
Non gun suicide: 19,974

 

[2aguy]

....Mental Illness....

And more truth, facts and reality about guns and suicide...

Guns Don't Cause Suicide

More Guns, Less Suicide Than Much of Europe

Certainly, if we compare the US to other countries, we have no reason to believe that suicides in the US are unusually common. Indeed, the US is very unremarkable in terms of suicide rates. Deborah Azrael at the Harvard Youth Violence Prevention Center has said "cut it however you want: in places where exposure to guns is higher, more people die of suicide." But, for anyone who can do arithmetic and make simple comparisons, this claim is easily shown to be bunk:


Source. (OECD Data.)

The US comes in between gun-restrictive countries Sweden and Austria, and, of course, has a suicide rates far below that of Japan which is often held up as a paradise of gun-free non-violence. Korea, where privately-owned guns are nearly non-existent, has one of the worst suicide rates in the world. The US also has a suicide rate about equal to Switzerland, which in spite of its reputation as being a country of gun-toters, is estimated to have less than half as many guns per capita as the United States.

 

[2aguy]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

She would have stabbed or drowned them if she didn't have a gun.
Sick is sick, regardless of the medium of delivery.

Ah NOW we finally get to the issue. Not necessarily. That would have taken more planning, more time, more logistics, all of which present more opportunities for reflection. Pointing a gun at somebody (or at oneself) takes an instant.

In this case her note indicates it was premeditated, but the firearm made it ruthlessly efficient, quicker and easier than drowning or stabbing would have.

She was sick, in multiple ways. As is a culture that celebrates death and violence and fantasizes about shoot-em-ups.

Thank you for at least getting the point.

Unfortunately, a person with paranoid voices in their heads WILL get the "job" done.
We have already seen mothers drowning their children.
Guns aren't always so easy to wield as many suspect; one blowback to her jaw and she would have been out cold.

Perhaps, but assuming one can handle the firearm -- a safe assumption since they were at a shooting range and prolly not for the first time -- a gun makes the whole thing quick, easy and instantaneous. That's exactly the issue with suicides.

That's not to conclude "therefore we should destroy/ban all guns" or anything like that (before somebody takes what they think is a loose ball and runs for their own fantasized end zone). It simply calls into question the wisdom of fomenting the cultural value of gun worship that lies at the bottom of it all.

Yeah...bullshit.....

Gun suicides......21,175.

Non gun suicides....19,974.

Guns in private hands not used to commit suicide.....356,978,825 million......

So no....you are wrong.........

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Perhaps the underlying culture responsible for the 19,974 non gun suicides should be looked at...since they took the time to not use a gun......

then you have this...

Mumbai: Indian man 'kills 14 members of family' - BBC News

A 35-year-old Indian man killed 14 members of his own family, including seven children and his parents, before killing himself, police say.

He did not use a gun.....

 

[Pogo]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

Who says that...we have two gun cultures....

We have the law abiding gun culture that uses guns for hunting, self defense, collecting, competition and tinkering....like with old cars.....

then we have a criminal sub culture that uses guns for crime.......

357,000,000 guns in private hands.

Less than 8,124 used to commit murder. (2014)

505 accidental gun deaths.

that means 356,991371 guns....owned by law abiding citizens is the dominant gun culture in the United States......

Can you understand how different those numbers are.......or are you as blind as all the other gun grabbers?

Those are two subdivisions of the SAME gun culture. So you just confirmed my point, times two.

And there can't be "other gun grabbers" unless I were a gun grabber, which I am not.

Prove me wrong.

 

[2aguy]

Fuck. I have relatives around there. Greater Orlando. I suspect more than a few people are hugging their kids right now.

But let's click our heels together and say in unison -- we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"... we "don't have a gun culture"...

Who says that...we have two gun cultures....

We have the law abiding gun culture that uses guns for hunting, self defense, collecting, competition and tinkering....like with old cars.....

then we have a criminal sub culture that uses guns for crime.......

357,000,000 guns in private hands.

Less than 8,124 used to commit murder. (2014)

505 accidental gun deaths.

that means 356,991371 guns....owned by law abiding citizens is the dominant gun culture in the United States......

Can you understand how different those numbers are.......or are you as blind as all the other gun grabbers?

Those are two subdivisions of the SAME gun culture. So you just confirmed my point, times two.

And there can't be "other gun grabbers" unless I were a gun grabber, which I am not.

Prove me wrong.

Wrong...two completely different gun cultures......