Krugman: personal austerity versus government austerity

[itfitzme]

It is a pyramid scheme that has had to involve a "global economy" to force recruitment and continue it's growth.

Look around you do you not see this happening?

People will stop believing in the religion called private central banking, and that crisis of faith will bring the system crashing down, as did the Temple of Baal in ancient times when the Syrians saw through the priests' trickery. This evil magic of creating money out of debt was a fraud all along, as fraudulent and silly as the idea that one can put ten marbles into a tin can, and take out eleven.

In ages to come economists will look back at this failed experiment in debt-based currency, and dump it into the same category of human folly as Tulip mania, The Nation of Poyais, Credit Mobilier, the Great South Seas Company, and Mortgage-Backed Securities.
If we don't blow the world up with nukes and cause our extinction first.

Dear Mr. Jones;

After reading your comments, it is apparent that, by the shear volume of detailed misconceptions, you unlikely to achieve anything resembling rational, objective and clear thought on economics and the nature of money in any current time frame.

Indeed, there are indications of a more serious condition that you should focus on, one that economics has simply become a subject of attachment. You and your family would be far better served if you were to focus on your mental state and forget about economics for the time being. Continued attention to economics is only going to exacerbate your condition.

To begin with, a pyramid scheme is one in which a private citizen sets up an investment scheme by which earlier investors are paid from the proceeds of new investors. That the fractional reserve system has a money multiplier doesn't make is analogous to a pyramid scheme. The fractional banking system does not rely on the proceeds from new investors in order to pay earlier investors. Quite the contrary, it relies on new borrowers to replace old borrowers. It is, in it's details, not a pyramid scheme.

You are mistaking a generalized geometric pattern as being the defining characteristic of a pyramid scheme. While a pyramid scheme gets its name from it's geometric pattern, it is not the geometric pattern that fully defines it. A pyramid scheme does not have an unlimited source of funds while the fractional reserve banking system does have an unlimited source of funds. That alone makes it not a pyramid scheme.

Then there is the difference of one being run by a private citizen in an illegal activity while the other is a public entity performing a legally defined activity. The two are distinctly different in a multitude of details.

Fundamentally, you are simply suffering from a manic disorder. This condition became apparent towards the end of your comment when you began using terms that clearly present the underlying illness. These are "evil", "magic", "religion", "Temple of Baal", and "in ages to come". The use of these "biblical" terms are diagnostic and suggest a manic condition that should be attended to in short order. Honestly, I would not have been surprised had you used the term "Armageddon".

Indeed, your fixation on a generalize geometric pattern as being a defining connection between two processes, without any regard to the specific details that they do not have in common, is also highly suggestive of a serious manic condition.

You might consider seeking medical attention now as there are a host of psychotropic medications, like zoloft and prozac, that will do wonders for you. You might also consider a mood stabilizer. Titrating out the right medication may take some time. It is a process that commonly takes years.

Cognitive therapy, should you find a good therapist, is excellent. The problem becomes one of finding a therapist that is smart enough, clever enough, and has enough experience. It's not as easy as one might think.

In the mean time, you might find meditation and exercise helpful. Fishing is good, should you find it appropriate, as it forces one to relax. Any outdoor activity is appropriate. Outdoor activities, especially physical activities, are themselves meditative. And physical activities have well recognized affects in re-balancing neurotransmitters.

Whatever you do, please avoid the desire to move into a small shack in the Montana wilderness and post a manifesto. Should you find yourself writing a manifesto, please seek professional psychiatric help immediately.

Lest you misunderstand, I am quite serious. I am not trying to be funny or facetious.
I am telling you that you have all the indications of a manic disorder that you should be attending to. It is quite common. It is typically the result of extended periods of elevated stress that may be, in part, reactive to ones personal sensitivity.

Everything suggest that you are right on the ragged edge. There is no telling. You may remain on the ragged edge for years with no serious problems. On the other hand, in your current state, any serious trauma may have serious consequences to your mental health. There is no reason why, given what we now understand about the human condition, that you should continue to suffer this way.

At the very least, take a deep breath and relax. We've all been around for a long time, none of us having died yet, and all of us likely to die of nothing more dramatic then simply old age, we should be so lucky.

You are, no doubt, an intelligent individual with honest concern for the well being of those around you. Right now, you need to take care of yourself. And should you, at some later date, decide to return to considerations of economics, I suggest beginning by focusing on the fundamentals, especially taking courses at a local college or university. It will help pull your intellectual understanding out of the mania to which it has so obviously become attached.

Best of luck,

itfitzme

 

[Mr. Jones]

]It worked pretty well throughout history.

If by well you mean massive bouts of inflation/deflation depressions every ten years and longer recessions

Have you noticed the mess this nation and the world is in since private banks have taken control of the monetary systems and its fractional reserve system of banking?

Yep thank you republicans

Actually it was during Wilsons administration the Fed act was adopted, a democrat.

 

[Mr. Jones]

It is a pyramid scheme that has had to involve a "global economy" to force recruitment and continue it's growth.

Look around you do you not see this happening?

People will stop believing in the religion called private central banking, and that crisis of faith will bring the system crashing down, as did the Temple of Baal in ancient times when the Syrians saw through the priests' trickery. This evil magic of creating money out of debt was a fraud all along, as fraudulent and silly as the idea that one can put ten marbles into a tin can, and take out eleven.

In ages to come economists will look back at this failed experiment in debt-based currency, and dump it into the same category of human folly as Tulip mania, The Nation of Poyais, Credit Mobilier, the Great South Seas Company, and Mortgage-Backed Securities.
If we don't blow the world up with nukes and cause our extinction first.

Dear Mr. Jones;

After reading your comments, it is apparent that, by the shear volume of detailed misconceptions, you unlikely to achieve anything resembling rational, objective and clear thought on economics and the nature of money in any current time frame.

Indeed, there are indications of a more serious condition that you should focus on, one that economics has simply become a subject of attachment. You and your family would be far better served if you were to focus on your mental state and forget about economics for the time being. Continued attention to economics is only going to exacerbate your condition.

To begin with, a pyramid scheme is one in which a private citizen sets up an investment scheme by which earlier investors are paid from the proceeds of new investors. That the fractional reserve system has a money multiplier doesn't make is analogous to a pyramid scheme. The fractional banking system does not rely on the proceeds from new investors in order to pay earlier investors. Quite the contrary, it relies on new borrowers to replace old borrowers. It is, in it's details, not a pyramid scheme.

You are mistaking a generalized geometric pattern as being the defining characteristic of a pyramid scheme. While a pyramid scheme gets its name from it's geometric pattern, it is not the geometric pattern that fully defines it. A pyramid scheme does not have an unlimited source of funds while the fractional reserve banking system does have an unlimited source of funds. That alone makes it not a pyramid scheme.

Then there is the difference of one being run by a private citizen in an illegal activity while the other is a public entity performing a legally defined activity. The two are distinctly different in a multitude of details.

Fundamentally, you are simply suffering from a manic disorder. This condition became apparent towards the end of your comment when you began using terms that clearly present the underlying illness. These are "evil", "magic", "religion", "Temple of Baal", and "in ages to come". The use of these "biblical" terms are diagnostic and suggest a manic condition that should be attended to in short order. Honestly, I would not have been surprised had you used the term "Armageddon".

Indeed, your fixation on a generalize geometric pattern as being a defining connection between two processes, without any regard to the specific details that they do not have in common, is also highly suggestive of a serious manic condition.

You might consider seeking medical attention now as there are a host of psychotropic medications, like zoloft and prozac, that will do wonders for you. You might also consider a mood stabilizer. Titrating out the right medication may take some time. It is a process that commonly takes years.

Cognitive therapy, should you find a good therapist, is excellent. The problem becomes one of finding a therapist that is smart enough, clever enough, and has enough experience. It's not as easy as one might think.

In the mean time, you might find meditation and exercise helpful. Fishing is good, should you find it appropriate, as it forces one to relax. Any outdoor activity is appropriate. Outdoor activities, especially physical activities, are themselves meditative. And physical activities have well recognized affects in re-balancing neurotransmitters.

Whatever you do, please avoid the desire to move into a small shack in the Montana wilderness and post a manifesto. Should you find yourself writing a manifesto, please seek professional psychiatric help immediately.

Lest you misunderstand, I am quite serious. I am not trying to be funny or facetious.
I am telling you that you have all the indications of a manic disorder that you should be attending to. It is quite common. It is typically the result of extended periods of elevated stress that may be, in part, reactive to ones personal sensitivity.

Everything suggest that you are right on the ragged edge. There is no telling. You may remain on the ragged edge for years with no serious problems. On the other hand, in your current state, any serious trauma may have serious consequences to your mental health. There is no reason why, given what we now understand about the human condition, that you should continue to suffer this way.

At the very least, take a deep breath and relax. We've all been around for a long time, none of us having died yet, and all of us likely to die of nothing more dramatic then simply old age, we should be so lucky.

You are, no doubt, an intelligent individual with honest concern for the well being of those around you. Right now, you need to take care of yourself. And should you, at some later date, decide to return to considerations of economics, I suggest beginning by focusing on the fundamentals, especially taking courses at a local college or university. It will help pull your intellectual understanding out of the mania to which it has so obviously become attached.

Best of luck,

itfitzme

That was quite good, I can appreciate a good laugh, especially when it comes from a well intended albeit a mistake in choice of words on my part, where I said pyramid, I meant ponzi scheme
However the hierarchy of power is indeed a pyramid, in society, global local, doesn't matter, look at how corporations are structured .

Anyway, I will readily admit I am not trained in economics but like most people rely on those who are, and even then continue to investigate beyond until I arrive at a point, on who or what to believe that makes the most sense, even drawing upon historical precedent to come to a conclusion. If it goes against the well oiled psyops machinations indoctrination, so be it.
I provide links to most of what I tend to agree with for the benefit of others to read, to enhance and continue further discussion of a topic, that is the best way that I have found to gain knowledge and different perspectives and opinions on things that interest me, and most of what I find comes from good, vetted sources, that I look at beyond the website(s) that posts it.
It's simple really, if one goes to the beginning and follows the topic forward, or takes the other way and works backward throughout history to where we are today, and the bottom line is, regarding a fiat monetary system, especially in private hands, hasn't worked, for a nation as a whole, isn't working now, and hasn't sustained itself, and all indications are that this one wont be any different.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

regarding a fiat monetary system, especially in private hands, hasn't worked, for a nation as a whole, isn't working now, and hasn't sustained itself, and all indications are that this one wont be any different.

actually the Gold Standard led to the Depression. The fact is any system has to be managed and is subject to mismanagement. Based on what we know now though either system can work, but the current system is our only real option given that 99% of economists support it.

And, few very top economist are willing to challenge Bernanke who is the best and most experienced central banker in human history.

 

[Mr. Jones]

regarding a fiat monetary system, especially in private hands, hasn't worked, for a nation as a whole, isn't working now, and hasn't sustained itself, and all indications are that this one wont be any different.

actually the Gold Standard led to the Depression.

I would be willing to study where you get this information, as Ive stated before, this is a good way to learn and gain different perspectives on this and many topics, please provide the source for this? As I am under the impression it was caused by a bank run set in motion by the top bankers, who called in their loans-
""The Federal Reserve prompted the speculation by expanding the money supply a whopping sixty-two percent between 1923 and 1929. When the central bank became law in 1913, Congressman Charles Lindbergh had warned: 'From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.' Like two con men working a mark, the Fed made credit easy while Establishment newspapers hyped what riches could be made in the stock market." "Curtis Dall," he continued, "himself a syndicate manager for Lehman Brothers was on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange on the day of the Crash." Perloff quotes Dall as declaring, "Actually, it was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World-Money powers triggered by the planned sudden shortage of call money in the New York money market."

The fact is any system has to be managed and is subject to mismanagement.

Outright fraud is a much better description.

Based on what we know now though either system can work, but the current system is our only real option given that 99% of economists support it.

Yes top economists like Kraugman that propose a continuation of the same madness

And, few very top economist are willing to challenge Bernanke who is the best and most experienced central banker in human history.

Those who challenge the fed reserve are ostracized by the masses that are willingly or not, under their control...actually we are all under their control, but that doesn't make them right, look around you, how well has it been for anyone else other then those who are at the top of the pyramid, ponzi scheme?

Congressman Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking Committee, declared of the Depression, "It was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence." He warned, "The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as rulers of us all." The Great Depression is another example of the Problem-Reaction-Solution formula.

"History shows that the Wall Street biggies came through very well indeed," wrote Alan B. Jones in his book, How the World Really Works. Quoting from G. Edward Griffin's book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, he added, "Virtually all of the inner club was rescued. There is no record of any member of the interlocking directorate between the Federal Reserve, the major New York banks, and their prime customers having been caught by surprise."

"FDR is probably best remembered for the New Deal," stated Perloff. "Of courser, since a large portion of the work force was unemployed, there was not enough tax revenue to pay for these programs. So the government turned to its other source--borrowing. In effect, the international bankers, having created the Depression, now loaned America the cash to recover from it." He added, "Naturally, the interest on these loans would be borne on the backs of taxpayers for years to come."

Like Kraugman suggests we continue to do, round and round we go..

Summary

This evidence suggests that The Great Depression was artificially created so the larger Wall Street firms, which control the stock market, could eliminate competition and make profits out of lending America money to recover from it.

Wars are good for the bankers too, as history has shown...
Bernake will be remembered as just another liar and crook for the fed reserve..

 

[Oddball]

regarding a fiat monetary system, especially in private hands, hasn't worked, for a nation as a whole, isn't working now, and hasn't sustained itself, and all indications are that this one wont be any different.

actually the Gold Standard led to the Depression. The fact is any system has to be managed and is subject to mismanagement. Based on what we know now though either system can work, but the current system is our only real option given that 99% of economists support it.

Yeah, a gold standard coupled with a Federal Reserve that printed up more money than there was specie to back it.

And, few very top economist are willing to challenge Bernanke who is the best and most experienced central banker in human history.

I get it...That's a joke.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

actually the Gold Standard led to the Depression.

I would be willing to study where you get this information,

I refer you to the collected works of Milton Friedman. He is probably the most respected economist of the 20th Century. Why would you subject yourself to libertarian conspiracy brainwashing before being thoroughly familiar with Friedman? It shows you need the psychological high from being in a tiny conspiracy group more than you need the truth.

Do you have the character to make this the first day in your intellectual life or do you stay on as libertarian nut job for the rest of your life?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

As I am under the impression it was caused by a bank run set in motion by the top bankers, who called in their loans-.

bank runs and panics are anticipated in any banking system, of course, it is the Central Bank response that determines whether bank runs turn into significant deflation and depression. The Great Depression happened because the Central Bank stood by and let this happen.

This is the first day of the rest of your life!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yeah, a gold standard coupled with a Federal Reserve that printed up more money than there was specie to back it.

Actually after the '29 crash there was a huge deflation because the Fed did not print exactly when it needed to. Money supply shrunk by 1/3 and the Depression began.

 

[starcraftzzz]

regarding a fiat monetary system, especially in private hands, hasn't worked, for a nation as a whole, isn't working now, and hasn't sustained itself, and all indications are that this one wont be any different.

actually the Gold Standard led to the Depression. The fact is any system has to be managed and is subject to mismanagement. Based on what we know now though either system can work, but the current system is our only real option given that 99% of economists support it.

Yeah, a gold standard coupled with a Federal Reserve that printed up more money than there was specie to back it.

Yes and aliens who blew up New york and CHigaco also caused it

 

[starcraftzzz]

As I am under the impression it was caused by a bank run set in motion by the top bankers, who called in their loans-.

bank runs and panics are anticipated in any banking system, of course, it is the Central Bank response that determines whether bank runs turn into significant deflation and depression. The Great Depression happened because the Central Bank stood by and let this happen.

This is the first day of the rest of your life!

Edwards last two posts are spot on correct.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, a gold standard coupled with a Federal Reserve that printed up more money than there was specie to back it.

Actually after the '29 crash there was a huge deflation because the Fed did not print exactly when it needed to. Money supply shrunk by 1/3 and the Depression began.

And that's why zillions of people were standing outside the banks, wanting to trade their worthless currency for coin.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes and aliens who blew up New york and CHigaco also caused it

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yeah, a gold standard coupled with a Federal Reserve that printed up more money than there was specie to back it.

Actually after the '29 crash there was a huge deflation because the Fed did not print exactly when it needed to. Money supply shrunk by 1/3 and the Depression began.

And that's why zillions of people were standing outside the banks, wanting to trade their worthless currency for coin.

not sure what you mean? what currency there was appreciated a great deal as the total supply of money shrunk by 1/3.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Yes and aliens who blew up New york and CHigaco also caused it

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal

Funny howwhat you say caused the Depression and worsened it is the thing that liberals say caused it. So what now libturd

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes and aliens who blew up New york and CHigaco also caused it

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal

Funny howwhat you say caused the Depression and worsened it is the thing that liberals say caused it. So what now libturd

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal without a clue

 

[starcraftzzz]

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal

Funny howwhat you say caused the Depression and worsened it is the thing that liberals say caused it. So what now libturd

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal without a clue

You are a libtard communist who hates capitalism. Go to China.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Funny howwhat you say caused the Depression and worsened it is the thing that liberals say caused it. So what now libturd

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal without a clue

You are a libtard communist who hates capitalism. Go to China.

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or realize that you're the only to whom it isn't obvious that you're changing the subject.

 

[starcraftzzz]

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or admit to being a liberal without a clue

You are a libtard communist who hates capitalism. Go to China.

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or realize that you're the only to whom it isn't obvious that you're changing the subject.

Um is saying that what caused the great depression is what you've said caused it considered not saying what caused it?
The great depression was caused by a lot of things of which I’ll list some of them

1) A debt financed stock/economic bubble
2) High income inequality which resulted in a debt financed consumer binge which resulted in a collapse in consumption when poor people and to pay back their debts
3) A large banking crisis.

Some things that deepened it include.
1) A Gold standard that prevented the powers at be from adjusted to large economic shocks
2) Poor farming techniques that lead to the dust bowl
3) A failure of the FED/government to increase the money supply, prevent deflation or enact stimulus programs.
4) Deflation which deters investment, consumption and increase debt loads.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You are a libtard communist who hates capitalism. Go to China.

this is where you say what caused the Great Depression or realize that you're the only to whom it isn't obvious that you're changing the subject.

Um is saying that what caused the great depression is what you've said caused it considered not saying what caused it?
The great depression was caused by a lot of things of which I’ll list some of them

1) A debt financed stock/economic bubble
2) High income inequality which resulted in a debt financed consumer binge which resulted in a collapse in consumption when poor people and to pay back their debts
3) A large banking crisis.

Some things that deepened it include.
1) A Gold standard that prevented the powers at be from adjusted to large economic shocks
2) Poor farming techniques that lead to the dust bowl
3) A failure of the FED/government to increase the money supply, prevent deflation or enact stimulus programs.
4) Deflation which deters investment, consumption and increase debt loads.

Good for you, you looked up a list. How odd though that you said my list of one item was "spot on" in post 90 ???