Krugman: personal austerity versus government austerity

Contrary to a widespread belief, socialism in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe did not collapse because of the clever geostrategic maneuvers of the Reagan Administration. Neither did the East Bloc break up because its leaders were incompetents who put into practice the wrong plans. Particular politicians and policies East or West had next to nothing to do with it.

The East Bloc fell apart--and had to fall apart, no matter what anyone did--because of an obscure principle of economics known as "the impossibility of rational economic calculation under bureaucratic central planning". Socialism failed--and must always fail--because, without prices for goods and services generated by a free market, central planners cannot allocate resources and manpower intelligently. But central planners cannot allow a free market to set prices (otherwise there could be no central planning). In the long run, this self-imposed bureaucratic blindness to the real values of people and things results in monumental waste, the failure of central plans to deliver sound capital investments and advancing standards of living, and finally the collapse of those societies that allow politicians and bureaucrats, rather than free entrepreneurs and workers, to direct the course of economic affairs.

Although this principle had been recognized by other economists for almost a century theretofore, it received systematic exposition in Ludwig von Mises's seminal treatise, Socialism, first published in the 1920s. So, during the heyday of central planning from the 1920s to the 1980s, no one should have been unaware of the problem. Nonetheless, the political elite and the intelligentsiia ignored it, just about everywhere. In the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, where Stalin and his successors imposed industrial-strength central planning through police-state terrorism and slave labor in the Gulag, the price was higher than in (say) the United States, to which Franklin D. Roosevelt was able to administer only a diluted dose of the same poison. But a price there was, paid as usual by common people.

Economic theory also teaches that any scheme of fiat currency and fractional-reserve central banking is just as inherently flawed, incapable of permanent existence, and inevitably doomed to disaster as all-around, full-blown socialism, because fractional-reserve central banking systematically subverts the free market's structure of prices through expansion of currency and credit--which results in redistribution of wealth, misallocation of scarce capital, and collapse in either depression or hyperinflation followed by depression. This is no new insight. The problems fractional-reserve banking causes were widely discussed in the 1800s; and the whole subject of political versus free-market money was exhaustively examined by Ludwig von Mises, in his treatise The Theory of Money and Credit, first published in the 1920s. (Probably the best book on this subject now available for the average reader is Murray Rothbard's The Mystery of Banking.) But, throughout the Western world during the 1900s and even unto the present moment, the political elite, high finance and big business, and their hired intelligentsiia have generally ignored these problems--doubtlessly because irredeemable currency and fractional-reserve central banking have served their short-term interests, and the costs of the system have always been paid by picking the pockets of the common man.

For this country's system of fractional-reserve central banking, though, Americans cannot blame some foreign dictator such as Stalin, but instead need to indict their own home-grown usurpers and tyrants: primarily, Presidents Woodrow Wilson (who signed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913), Franklin Roosevelt (who outlawed private possession of gold for use as currency in 1933-1934), and Lyndon Johnson (who repudiated the government's promise to redeem its paper currency in silver coin in 1967-1968). Some people also assign a large share of responsibility to Richard Nixon, who terminated redemption of Federal Reserve Notes in gold for foreign banks in 1971. This, however, is unfair. By "closing the gold window", Nixon extricated this country from an especially expensive variety of parasitism by the Federal Reserve System: its ability to prop up the value of Federal Reserve Notes by looting America's gold reserves. Indeed, such was Nixon’s legal duty. Because the Federal Reserve System as a whole is unconstitutional, paying out this nation's gold in redemption of Federal Reserve Notes is unconstitutional, too. (Nixon, of course, was far from being a constitutionalist. But, as folk wisdom teaches, "God writes straight with crooked lines".)

In the case of the Federal Reserve, economic history all too strongly confirms economic theory. In 1913, the Federal Reserve's touts predicted that it would allow bankers and politicians to "manage" currency "scientifically", and thereby to end business cycles, eliminate inflation, and forefend depressions. Yet, the country soon suffered a sharp, albeit short depression in 1920-1921, followed by the horrendous collapses of the stock market and the banks in 1929-1933, and the Great Depression that festered for the remainder of the 1930s. And since World War II, Federal Reserve Notes have lost more than 90% of their purchasing power--which is a serious consequence of inflation by any reasonable standard.

Moreover, since 1933 the Federal Reserve System has been anything but strengthened, because every link between Federal Reserve Notes and gold or silver coin has been severed. Today, (in the words of former high-level banker John Exter) Federal Reserve Notes are an "I owe you nothing" currency. True, the Treasury and the banks will redeem Federal Reserve Notes for "lawful money"; and the Treasury must receive Federal Reserve Notes in payment of taxes. See Title 12, United States Code, Section 411. But the "lawful money" paid out consists only of base-metallic coins. See Title 31, United States Code, Section 5118(b, c). So redemption amounts to exchanging intrinsically valueless rag currency for almost valueless slugs. And a right to use Federal Reserve Notes to pay taxes is of dubious economic benefit to the taxpayer whose wealth is expropriated through that very payment.

Because Federal Reserve Notes are irredeemable in silver or gold, or any commodity other than the Treasury’s base-metallic slugs (and even then at no permanently fixed ratio of exchange), their purchasing power in the free market ultimately depends upon public confidence--or, more realistically, public gullibility. That is, the Federal Reserve System is a confidence game, in both senses of that term. What should give every American pause is that the powers that be--who are most intimately acquainted with the problem because they are its cause and the reason it is not being solved--lack confidence themselves.
Rest can be read at:Edwin Vieira, Jr. -- Are Monetary & Banking Crises Inevitable in the Near Future?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Utoxary2Q&feature=related]G. Edward Griffin The Dangerous Servant A Discourse on Government - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE]Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve - YouTube[/ame]
 
want to be $10,000. Bet or run away again with your liberal tail between your legs




if so why is the liberal so afraid to present his best example for the whole world to see? What does your fear tell you?

Notice how firs y you respond with "no he said it but I wont post it" then you're like oh if you're not afraid then source it. Hypocritical retard.

show your parents your gibberish before you post it please

I forgot that you cant read. My bad
Notice again how isntead of posting the source you just insult
What are you afraid of?
Are you afraid that admitting you are wrong will bring up memories of when your
drunk father beat the shit out of you for not getting an A on math?
 
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and has driven the U.S. government to the brink of bankruptcy.
ROTFL so the FED giving the government free money makes the government bankrupt.
I can already tell that this whole article is bogus and full of shit


Wrong. Dodd-Frank audited the FED. Odd that republicans voted against that

I hope this article tells us how giving the US government money drains money from the US government

Hm so are you saying that the US goverment should be able to get free money with out paying interest rates? Oh wait right now some innterest on govt debt are 0 or below 0

The truth is that our financial system is centrally-controlled and centrally-managed by a group of banking oligarchs [a banking cartel] who have constructed an ever-expanding debt spiral which has been efficiently designed to slowly transfer all wealth into their hands.
I think a good solution would be to elect liberals who do not cave to corporations/banks so they can appoint like minded people to the FED instead of Republicans/conservative democrats who bow down to banks

Id go through the rest of the trash but I'm deciding to just say fuck it

"ROTFL so the FED giving the government free money makes the government bankrupt.
I can already tell that this whole article is bogus and full of shit"
======
You know Ignorance and arrogance makes a person pompously foolish. You don't even understand the basic relationship the privately owned federal reserve bank has with U.S government do you?....
How the hell would you know that? Odd how the one calling others arrogant is telling others what they know.

you're a pretentious MORON who doesn't even know how the money in the U.S. is created. it's quite evident you don't!
Yes your source in the first paragraph being wrong means I'm pretentious.
Why are you so pissed? Its not like you got paid to write that bullshit.
The Federal Reserve Bank doesn't give the government "free" money you moron it loans it to the government at interest it has since it's inception 1913 you RETARD!
Well lets see currently the FED is buying Government bonds at 0 and negative interest rates.
So tell me how me giving you 100 dollars and making it so I then pay you 1 dollar in 10 years is not me giving you free money.
Perhaps if you took 5 minutes to think instead of ramble out "your a moron" you actrually make an argument that had a basis in reality.
My guess is no you havn't meaning you are
And you have the nerve to call me pretensious and arogant.
Wrong. Dodd-Frank audited the FED. Odd that republicans voted against that
No you're wrong
The key word was COMPREHENSIVE audit.The Fed has not had one and the Dodd-Frank bill is a lame ass bill that doesn't do much.
Hm so you've read the audit report? telling what is in a audit that you have no clue about because you've never even seen the first page and you have the nerve to call others pretentious and arrogant.

Have you ever wondered why a sovereign nation such as the United States has to borrow United States dollars from anyone?
Hm so are you saying that the US government should be able to get free money with out paying interest rates? Oh wait right now some interest on govt debt are 0 or below 0

Here once again you demonstrate your lack of comprehension of what I posted so far.
The government has the power to create it's own money, the government hasn't been creating it's own money since 1914.[/quote]
The topic is if the FED gives the government free money. Right now they are giving them free money meaning you are wrong.
The privately ran Federal Reserve Bank
Do we really consider the FED privately run when it is run by people appointed by government and reappointed every some years?

If the government created it's own money it wouldn't have to borrow it from the private bankers.
So what your saying is you want the government to have more control and power over the banking system.I do agree.
However even if the government could print all the money it wanted it wouldn't do anything because congress would have to approve it. Think if the FED were controlled by congress then we'd have the retard GOP push rates up to 10% (because debt is immoral or some shit) and we'd enter an economic depression.
That does not sound like a good selling point.

The interests rates have been only near zero since Dec. 2008. For more on this search the Feds power over the interest rates of the country and a chronological history of what the rates were.
The truth is that our financial system is centrally-controlled and centrally-managed by a group of banking oligarchs [a banking cartel] who have constructed an ever-expanding debt spiral which has been efficiently designed to slowly transfer all wealth into their hands.
The FED has the power to print money, and to set the interest rates at which banks trade. Those are two of its powers so plz tell us its powers and logicly connect the dots on how the FED controls the whole banking sector.
I think a good solution would be to elect liberals who do not cave to corporations/banks so they can appoint like minded people to the FED instead of Republicans/conservative democrats who bow down to banks.
More of the same lack of understanding of the U.S's money system
You call me ignorant but you dont even realize that the FED is appointed by the president who is then approved by the senate.
So The FED is a Corporation that has a monopoly on money creation and the issuance of credit.
Wait so Bank of America can't give some one a loen unless the FED approves it. Seriously?
The Federal Reserve is NOT part of the U.S. government .It's controlled by the private bankers. The FOMC. The Federal Reserve Board
If the FED is not part of the US govt. then all of the executive branch the EPA, the DOE, etc are not a part it because the people who control those things get there the same way
On a side note I do think it si better for you to actually make arguments and give your side instead of just copy and pasting some bullshit article.
 
Contrary to a widespread belief ... The East Bloc fell apart--and had to fall apart, no matter what anyone did--because of an obscure principle of economics known as "the impossibility of rational economic calculation under bureaucratic central planning".

Perhaps contrary to your belief.

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics is well aware that it was the central planning model that failed the Soviet Union. It's failing was recognized by China, in part due to their learning from Greenspan, and is why China began privatizing by starting at the level of the smaller farms. When they did that, production explode.

What you are talking about with "the political elite and the intelligentsiia ignored it" is beyond anyone with an understanding of economics. Everyone is well aware of the limitations of central planning, including the US military, the most centrally planned sub-economies within the larger mixed economy of the United States.
While the US military does do a lot of central planning, a process with difficulties that were clearly highlighted in the onset of the Iraq war, the US military has changed considerably in terms of utilizing the free market processes of the free market system. The US military has changed considerably in terms of incentivizing much and moving away from centralized planning in much of it's operations.

The connection, in case you are not entirely clear, is that the centrally planned economy of the Soviet Union was simply an expansion of the military model to an entire country. It does not function, as everyone is well aware, because you cannot calculate an entire economy.

None of this has any relationship to the Federal Reserve, the fractional reserve system, or fiat money. Your are making a totally ridiculous segue or connection between central planning of an economy and the monetary operations of the Federal Reserve and the fractional reserve system.

First off, that the Federal Reserve uses a form of scientific determination of the money supply is not a point of connection to the central planning of an entire nation, based upon the term "scientific". Again, I suggest you seek medication or considerable education because these kinds of nebulous connections based on a linkage between some symbol, like a word, is a clear indication of a manically induced thought process.

Secondly, the fractional reserve system does nothing more then make money available to satisfy the demand of the markets. It also, as the US military has learned, provides incentives to the markets to entice them to utilize the funds. They do not force money on the markets and the markets are free to do as it will. Money is demanded only if their is sufficient return on investment.

The third fault in your reasoning is the belief that money inherits some value from gold. It inherits nothing. Gold has no inherent or intrinsic value. Value is entirely extrinsic to money, whether it is backed by gold or not. Value is intrinsic to people. People assign value to products and money.

In short; a) everyone knows that central planning is why the Soviet Union failed, b) using the term "scientific" to make a link is manic, c) the Federal Reserve makes money available and the free market determines if it wants it, and d) gold does not have any intrinsic or inherent value so gold backed money does not inherit value from gold.

One small point; I am sure that you a) accept this fiat money in payment for your labor and b) buy food with this fiat money. Your very behavior proves that you do ascribe value to fiat money. Your are either disingenuous or schizophrenic.

Your reasoning is fundamentally faulty. You are misguided and fundamentally wrong. Your only hope is to simply abandon everything you have collected and start over from the beginning. You get an A for effort but an F for understanding.
 
Yet, the country soon suffered a sharp, albeit short depression in 1920-1921, followed by the horrendous collapses of the stock market and the banks in 1929-1933, and the Great Depression that festered for the remainder of the 1930s.

Yeah, because of the gold standard.

The Gold Standard, Deflation, and Financial Crisis
in the Great Depression: An International Comparison
Ben Bemanke, Harold James
The Gold Standard, Deflation, and Financial Crisis in the Great Depression: An International Comparison
 
Krugman is a hack and he knows it. About a year back he wrote a terrible piece that completely defied economic sense and the commenters took him on and he got owned so bad that he had to turn off the comments.
 
You have to understand that Krugman is still angry because he wasn't asked to be the President's financial advisor.
 
Yet, the country soon suffered a sharp, albeit short depression in 1920-1921, followed by the horrendous collapses of the stock market and the banks in 1929-1933, and the Great Depression that festered for the remainder of the 1930s.

Yeah, because of the gold standard.


How did the Gold Standard cause the Great Depression?????
 
Yet, the country soon suffered a sharp, albeit short depression in 1920-1921, followed by the horrendous collapses of the stock market and the banks in 1929-1933, and the Great Depression that festered for the remainder of the 1930s.

Yeah, because of the gold standard.


How did the Gold Standard cause the Great Depression?????

It didn't cause it it made it impossible for the FED to respond to it by increasing the money supply and stopping massive deflation. For a more current example look at the Euro. The Euro is similar to a gold standard it makes it impossible for countries like Spain to respond to massive economic shocks so they are stuck with 25% unemployment and a depression.
I await your response where you say that the USSR and China makes the Gold standard good and where you call me a libtard for knowing things you do not
 
You have to understand that Krugman is still angry because he wasn't asked to be the President's financial advisor.

Nah. He's been a deuche and he's propped up by the NYT and lib nuts who desperately want to believe pseudo economics.

Krugman is a screw ball for sure. The other night he said we have to invent a space alien invasion, the cure for which would be to build bridges and hire teachers, and then admit it was a trick to get us to do the right thing during this depression, namely, build bridges and hire teachers.

Its not that he's 100% sure that money somehow becomes magical when government steals it and spends it, but that he's 100%
sure that Marxist welfare is morally mandatory.
 
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How did the Gold Standard cause the Great Depression

It didn't cause it it made it impossible for the FED to respond to it by increasing the money supply and stopping massive deflation.


perfect brainless liberalism.

According to Milton Friedman the Gold Standard rules in place at the time simply were not followed thus allowing the money supply and number of banks to shrink by 1/3.

Quickie lesson for perfectly illiterate liberal. Under a gold standard the supply of money is constant relative to the quanity of money. Gold did not magically disappear in 1929 so money would not have either if the central bank had followed the rules in place at the time.
Sorry, I know thats miles over your head but we must try.
 
How did the Gold Standard cause the Great Depression

It didn't cause it it made it impossible for the FED to respond to it by increasing the money supply and stopping massive deflation.


perfect brainless liberalism.

According to Milton Friedman the Gold Standard rules in place at the time simply were not followed thus allowing the money supply and number of banks to shrink by 1/3.

Quickie lesson for perfectly illiterate liberal. Under a gold standard the supply of money is constant relative to the quanity of money. Gold did not magically disappear in 1929 so money would not have either if the central bank had followed the rules in place at the time.
Sorry, I know thats miles over your head but we must try.

Even Milton Friedman agrees the gold standard is bad for an economy. SO now I await where you call him a illiterate lbieral who is cluless just because he is not a ranting lunatic with 0 brain cells like you.
Seriosuly go to a shrink and talk about how your mother didnt love you so you get get over it
 
You have to understand that Krugman is still angry because he wasn't asked to be the President's financial advisor.

Nah. He's been a deuche and he's propped up by the NYT and lib nuts who desperately want to believe pseudo economics.

Krugman is a screw ball for sure. The other night he said we have to invent a space alien invasion, the cure for which would be to build bridges and hire teachers, and then admit it was a trick to get us to do the right thing during this depression, namely, build bridges and hire teachers.

Its not that he's 100% sure that money somehow becomes magical when government steals it and spends it, but that he's 100%
sure that Marxist welfare is morally mandatory.

Who9 knew that a Nobel prize winner was a screw ball, but a ranting lunatic who thinks the USSR is an argument agisnt hiring teachers is intelligent
 
Nah. He's been a deuche and he's propped up by the NYT and lib nuts who desperately want to believe pseudo economics.

Krugman is a screw ball for sure. The other night he said we have to invent a space alien invasion, the cure for which would be to build bridges and hire teachers, and then admit it was a trick to get us to do the right thing during this depression, namely, build bridges and hire teachers.

Its not that he's 100% sure that money somehow becomes magical when government steals it and spends it, but that he's 100%
sure that Marxist welfare is morally mandatory.

Who9 knew that a Nobel prize winner was a screw ball, but a ranting lunatic who thinks the USSR is an argument agisnt hiring teachers is intelligent

he's not a screwball in his area of economics, just in his politics which explains why no one can figure out why he likes the Keynesian Marxist idea of building bridges to end Obama's depression.
 
1) A person is not a country , according to Krugman

2) If a person spends, drinks, or takes drugs too much the obvious solution is to cut back, according to Krugman. But if many individuals cut back it will depress the economy he says.

3) Conversely, if a drunken government spends too much the solution is too keep spending since that stimulates the economy. To cut back would depress the economy and sustain the Obama depression, according to Krugman.


Does this make sense to anyone?

Krugman is a highly touted idiot.
 
1) A person is not a country , according to Krugman

2) If a person spends, drinks, or takes drugs too much the obvious solution is to cut back, according to Krugman. But if many individuals cut back it will depress the economy he says.

3) Conversely, if a drunken government spends too much the solution is too keep spending since that stimulates the economy. To cut back would depress the economy and sustain the Obama depression, according to Krugman.


Does this make sense to anyone?

Krugman is a highly touted idiot.

Idiot??? It makes perfect sense to tax the rich so they cant start more companies like Apple and Google in order to get more bridges to nowhere!

Its very stimulative too because when government spends money it magicially and multiplies while when the people who earned the money spend it, it doesn't.
 
1) A person is not a country , according to Krugman

2) If a person spends, drinks, or takes drugs too much the obvious solution is to cut back, according to Krugman. But if many individuals cut back it will depress the economy he says.

3) Conversely, if a drunken government spends too much the solution is too keep spending since that stimulates the economy. To cut back would depress the economy and sustain the Obama depression, according to Krugman.


Does this make sense to anyone?

Krugman is a highly touted idiot.

Idiot??? It makes perfect sense to tax the rich so they cant start more companies like Apple and Google in order to get more bridges to nowhere!

Its very stimulative too because when government spends money it magicially and multiplies while when the people who earned the money spend it, it doesn't.

My apologies comrade, it's hard to read the party line by my candle. ;) :lol:

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